Player Discussion Patrik Laine

[StCaufield]

Love how before the habs got Laine people thought we could be a bubble team and now that he’s possibly done it’s now a perpetual rebuild and everything is over. Riiiight

 

[LaP]

Isn't it weird that Laine was shown at the practice smiling and everything 2 days after the injury? Maybe it's not a ACL after all, trying to be optimist here but I doubt the Habs would let Laine at the practice like that if he was out for the season.

It's possible it's just a partial tear and wont require surgery. This said i had a partial tear few years ago by hitting my knee is a similar way and was still out for about 4 months despite treatment at PCN. Had the injury at the beginning of september and was able to play again at the beginning of december.

 

[StCaufield]

That's not what I said nor meant. You're still using a strawman to make a point. Do better.



NO, that's again another reduction torwards absolutist conclusion. Between this year and next year, you'll have ADDED talent, added experience. You make the gap between 75 points and 90 points seem like a mountain. An exageration doesn't translate to a good argument.



It doesn't perpetuate anything. It's a process and you want to ignore the hurdles of the process by believing everything can be fixed pronto. Maybe you should listen to management and then argue with them instead, because they clearly often state that they are in a wait and see situation, because they can't be entirely sure what they have on their hands.



Grow-up. Only a handful are like that, but it's easier for you to argue against a false narrative, I guess.



They've made-up a 21 points gap in two years. You're just as extreme as those you deride, pretending there's little progress.

Youth like Hutson coming in IS entertaining.

Don’t bother arguing it’s just stressful and at the end of the day is useless

 

[Beendair Donedat]

I guess we will have a ton of cap space at least to acquire more expiring contracts, I suppose that’s a bonus.

I don’t expect Laine back this season, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the end of his NHL career. He’s had serious knee injuries before and this won’t help.

Tough blow to take. Especially when the season hasn’t even started yet.

I’m at the point that I think it’s time to bring in native medicine healers and priests to exorcise the demons that have followed the Habs since they left the beloved Forum. It couldn’t hurt anymore than it does now.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Don’t bother arguing it’s just stressful and at the end of the day is useless

After 17 years here, there's not much to stress me. But wasting time, sure, I agree.

 

[ReHabs]

Unless you think it’s a binary option of "tanking" and "trade every future to win now", then basically every rebuilding team was "many years ahead".

Sure. It depends where you draw the line and how you define things. For me tanking, as a concept, starts by giving up on a core and relinquishing hopes of competing. It’s a specific decision/action. Accumulating high-value prospects is a function of tanking but it can be done in a variety of ways. We’ve been tanking for three years but accumulating high-value futures for a bit longer.

What else can you call selling a prime of his career 40g winger off a goal-starved team? Suzuki was acquired during a “re-tool” but that was Bergevin selling the present against the future.

I think with respect to Forever Tankers, I take issue with the notion that we’re not anywhere close to where we want to be. I really disagreed with that and was satisfied to know Hughes also disagreed with that. There were many loud mouths in the commentary space who insisted that acquiring Laine was a bad idea because it would get in the way of the “natural progress” of the core. Bullshit.

The point is Rebuilding acquires building. If you start with good building blocks that’s great, we happened to start with Nick Suzuki, Kaiden Guhle, and Cole Caufield so why pretend like they’re not terrific building blocks?

 

[Adriatic]

Liberals should not be allowing immigation when there isn't enough infrastructure for the existing population.

I know but who's gonna deliver all my food and packages lol.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I’m at the point that I think it’s time to bring in native medicine healers and priests to exorcise the demons that have followed the Habs since they left the beloved Forum. It couldn’t hurt anymore than it does now.

Where's a volcano and a virgin when you need one

 

[HuGort]

I guess we will have a ton of cap space at least to acquire more expiring contracts, I suppose that’s a bonus.

I don’t expect Laine back this season, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the end of his NHL career. He’s had serious knee injuries before and this won’t help.

Tough blow to take. Especially when the season hasn’t even started yet.

I’m at the point that I think it’s time to bring in native medicine healers and priests to exorcise the demons that have followed the Habs since they left the beloved Forum. It couldn’t hurt anymore than it does now.

Looked like ACL to me. Way knee bent. But we see.

 

[Naslundforever]

That's not what I said nor meant. You're still using a strawman to make a point. Do better.



NO, that's again another reduction torwards absolutist conclusion. Between this year and next year, you'll have ADDED talent, added experience. You make the gap between 75 points and 90 points seem like a mountain. An exageration doesn't translate to a good argument.



It doesn't perpetuate anything. It's a process and you want to ignore the hurdles of the process by believing everything can be fixed pronto. Maybe you should listen to management and then argue with them instead, because they clearly often state that they are in a wait and see situation, because they can't be entirely sure what they have on their hands.



Grow-up. Only a handful are like that, but it's easier for you to argue against a false narrative, I guess.



They've made-up a 21 points gap in two years. You're just as extreme as those you deride, pretending there's little progress.

Youth like Hutson coming in IS entertaining.

I don’t see progress, you are right. I see potential of progress, but it has not translated on-ice. Pp is inexistant, they are a one-(average) line team, and the D is nothing but hype. And they are not good. Other than Demidov who seems blue-chip, there are also no prospect forwards who project top 6.

You are correct the only entertaining thing I can imagine is watching Hutson, that we agree.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Riiiight... i forgot how it will be impossible to re-sign Suzuki. Silly me.

Forwards aged 29 are like D aged 32, and the consensus here is not to renew Matheson.

People will not want to commit big dollars on Suzuki until age 37...........

Go reread what the Habs brass have said since Hugo have taken over. They want something long lasting, not something that arbitrarily ends on a single player's contract ending.

Habs brass are not tanking junkies.

 

[JianYang]

It's a decent top 2 lines, the bottom 2 are what kills us. Caps and Isles are better on the bottom and on the blueline. I'd suggest in net as well.

Decent 2 lines when healthy, but that is not a practical bar because injuries happen. The bottom 6 guys on this roster look okay for bottom 6 role, but an injury to the top 6 would vault someone in the top 6 and all of sudden, that top 6 looks mediocre to weak.

Good teams will have guys in the bottom 6 who are capable to be a top 6 guy.... and we haven't talked about the defense that is still on the youthful side of things, plus the question marks in goal. The team also hasn't really preached systems yet which will have to come at some point.

This is all fine with me at this stage of the rebuild, but I expect the team to be more aggressive next year in at least making the team a legitimate playoff threat. Suzuki will be 26 and it will be time to start making inroads.

 

[overlords]

Where's a volcano and a virgin when you need one

If you bring the papier mâché, I'll handle the baking soda. Finding a virgin around hfboards shouldn't take very long at all.

 

[schwang26]

I guess we will have a ton of cap space at least to acquire more expiring contracts, I suppose that’s a bonus.

I don’t expect Laine back this season, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the end of his NHL career. He’s had serious knee injuries before and this won’t help.

Tough blow to take. Especially when the season hasn’t even started yet.

I’m at the point that I think it’s time to bring in native medicine healers and priests to exorcise the demons that have followed the Habs since they left the beloved Forum. It couldn’t hurt anymore than it does now.

Molson did something to get this curse. I just know it. I’ve never seen it this bad. Maybe rename the building the Bell Forum? Try and fool the curse?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I don’t see progress, you are right. I see potential of progress, but it has not translated on-ice. Pp is inexistant, they are a one-(average) line team, and the D is nothing but hype. Other than Demidov who seems blue-chip, there are also no forwards who project top 6.

You are correct the only entertaining thing I can imagine is watching Hutson, that we agree.

And all of those won't get magically fixed with trades and UFAs.

Pick talent, develop the talent, add the talent, continu to develop the talent. It's a long process.

We've made a 21 points jump in two seasons. Your expectations are just as unrealistic as those of those mythical forever tankers. So really, you having an extremist view easily explains why you would want to portray anyone who disagrees with you as the other extreme. It's far easier to debate that way.

 

[FerrisRox]

I believe a rebuilding team was dragged kicking and screaming by a top 5 of all time goaltender, yes. I think we all witnessed the same thing.

Carey Price was done in 2019. His contract was probably the worst in the league. He woke up and chose that, Bergevin didn't plan this, lol.

I think you would have to be an absolute fool to think that Carey Price was done in 2019.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

There's almost assuredly damage to the LCL since that the ligament on the outside of your knee.

More of a question about the other 2 at this point

The knee bent inwards (valgus) and hyperextended, LCL being lateral it's most likely not the one that was damaged, it's likely the MCL and the ACL. The LCL would be damaged if there was a blow from the inside of the knee or varus force as the correct medical term would define it. Nothing's impossible though at this point and you might be right that there could be LCL damage too here, but looking at the images I think the other two are more likely.

 

[sampollock]

Definitely done for the season. Crutches and knee brace. Not releasing info because they’re waiting on second opinion before saying his whole year is a write off. This sucks. My excitement for this season completely drained again, just like hearing Dach go down for the whole season last year.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

If you bring the papier mâché, I'll handle the baking soda. Finding a virgin around hfboards shouldn't take very long at all.

Only missing to kidnap a sleeping OldCraig to add a rumbling sound to the volcano.

 

[FrankMTL]

We just need the same doctor that repaired Sheldon Souray's shredded left wrist to perform the surgery on Laine's knee.

Souray came out with a T2 rocket launcher wrist.

Good to go.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

We just need the same doctor that repaired Sheldon Souray's shredded left wrist to perform the surgery on Laine's knee.

Souray came out with a T2 rocket launcher wrist.

So Laine will be jumping to the rafters every second step?

 

[Mrb1p]

2024-25 last rebuild year (draft top 10 and have 2 picks in the 1st - try to advance the 2nd pick with 2nd round picks)
2025-26 try to make the playoffs probably miss by a few points (likely draft around 12th to 15th try to advance with 2nd round picks and/or young players in a position of strength)
2026-27 make the playofs and try to pass a round or two
2027-28 go for it all in be active at deadline for a few years

Suzuki will be 28 which for a player like him is his prime (his game is not based on speed or raw skills but hockey IQ - Koivu had one of his best season at 31). Suzuki is not Gallagher or JA he wont slow down at 28. He's not braindead.

I'm really confused by your post. So being patient with the rebuild means we're never going to finish it? It makes no sense as an argument. The rebuild was never going to last 2-3 years. The rebuild started in early 2022. At the deadline this year it will be 3 years (it's not 3 years yet).

Using the excuse that we drafted players before that in the middle of the 1st round (Guhle, Caufield) again makes no sense. Teams draft players every year it doesn't mean they are in a rebuild. We were not rebuilding in 2021-2022 and anyone who argue we were is trying to rewrite history. Arguing that a rebuild should be over after just 3 years is designious.

On average i'd say it takes around 5 draft to complete a rebuild. It's been 3. Can we give KH at least a 4th one?

My point is that the rebuild didn't start in 22. It's asinine to suggest so just because Hughes came in that year or because Price came out of semi-retirement to give us one last push.

Were not in year 3. Were in year 4 or 5. Were not 5 years out, were there right now. All our best players are primed. There's no need for another year of suffering. This year should be the narrow playoffs miss.

Suzuki = primed
Caufield = primed
Guhle = primed
Matheson = exiting his prime
Dach = primed even if uncertain
Newhook = Primed even if depth
Slaf = entering his prime
Xhekaj = entering his prime
Roy = entering his prime
Reinbacher = years away
Demidov = years away

Why exactly are we waiting? Bury Gally or Andy, acquire someone, if Laine is ready Were a juggernaut and if he's not Were a good team. Acquire another RD or trade Matheson for one.

This is a good team and only dragged down by the over-reliance on AHL level vets. Replace the 18 minutes of ice well give to Andy and Gally by an actual top 9 player and all of a sudden were one player out of making noise in the POs.

I mostly dispute the fact that this is another throw away year and the timeline of the rebuild.

Laine-Suzuki-Slaf
Cole-Dach-Roy
Newhook-Xx-Armia
Dvorak-Evans-Anderson/Gally

Guhle-Xx
Matheson-Xx
Hutson-Savard

Is an actual good team. Why are we sitting on our hands? Then Demidov slots in perfectly in Armias spot, we have money to add to the 4th line. Reinbacher hopefully is good enough to replace Savard.

It requires tinkering, and were probably too late now because of Hughes inactions but it was entirely possible to be a good team this year. Instead were delaying for no good reasons and it pisses me off. This is literally a case of being the Sabres or the Avs.

I think you would have to be an absolute fool to think that Carey Price was done in 2019.

Why didn't any team try to acquire him then?

 

[FrankMTL]

So Laine will be jumping to the rafters every second step?

Yes.....but also, can you imagine how quick his first step would be. Big man would be 7 strides ahead of everybody.

 

[Habby4Life]

I don’t see progress, you are right. I see potential of progress, but it has not translated on-ice. Pp is inexistant, they are a one-(average) line team, and the D is nothing but hype. And they are not good. Other than Demidov who seems blue-chip, there are also no prospect forwards who project top 6.

You are correct the only entertaining thing I can imagine is watching Hutson, that we agree.

Well said.

People keep saying this incredible deep prospect pool that isn't there.

They have no top 6 depth. Bottom six is just putrid, and no top D pairing.

Math and Gulhe are a second pair, Lane who knows just yet, Rein is a question mark, and then they have a whole bunch of spare 5/6s.

Watching Hutson will be fun but it will also come with a lot of growing pains in the D zone.

This team is years from being a serious playoff contender. Hugo has a ton of work to do both with the players and improving the coaching staff.

I could see this going the way of Buffalo pretty quickly.

 

[Habs]

Decent 2 lines when healthy, but that is not a practical bar because injuries happen. The bottom 6 guys on this roster look okay for bottom 6 role, but an injury to the top 6 would vault someone in the top 6 and all of sudden, that top 6 looks mediocre to weak.

Good teams will have guys in the bottom 6 who are capable to be a top 6 guy.... and we haven't talked about the defense that is still on the youthful side of things, plus the question marks in goal. The team also hasn't really preached systems yet which will have to come at some point.

This is all fine with me at this stage of the rebuild, but I expect the team to be more aggressive next year in at least making the team a legitimate playoff threat. Suzuki will be 26 and it will be time to start making inroads.

Yup I agree