Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[26Mats]

I keep holding on for hope that he has a great offseason full of training and whatnot but jesus f christ it's hard to watch this guy. Just a complete dog f'er on the ice. Absolutely zero compete and just looks like he doesn't give two snits out there.

I guess we'll see what happens in the playoffs but fack buddy, show some friggin heart out there.

I used to hold out hope Matheson could continue to use his skills for the positive things he does and cut out the negative. I no longer do.

Because of that I cut short holding out hope a lot faster for Laine.

 

[Deebs]

I used to hold out hope Matheson could continue to use his skills for the positive things he does and cut out the negative. I no longer do.

Because of that I cut short holding out hope a lot faster.

Oh jeez, I'd take Matty over Laine every day of the week. He might have his warts but at least he competes and is an overall positive for the team. I think his deployment and utilization is his biggest deterrent.

 

[HHel]

If he was as good as some claim, then why did he only play 8:47 of even strength icetime, only 8 seconds more than a jet lagged rookie in his 2nd game?

He was bad again. Anyone who claims differently is just lying. Coughing up the puck on the PP, the one place he’s supposed to contribute. Ineffective and slow 5v5. Bad angles, poor physicality for a 6’5 player.

That's pure BS. This time it was the other guys who blew things. He made the plays, when was that time and he was mostly covered by CAR player.

5vs5 I think we could be optimistic. I think there was some good plays between him and Demidov.

 

[26Mats]

Oh jeez, I'd take Matty over Laine every day of the week. He might have his warts but at least he competes and is an overall positive for the team. I think his deployment and utilization is his biggest deterrent.

The thing is, with Matheson, some of the turnovers are totally unnecessary, trying to do some thing out of the ordinary when there's little to be gained from trying to do so. So I used to think he could just cut them out...

 

[Mrb1p]

But this team sucks, they don’t have any good players & an idiot for a coach …. yet out of 32 teams, they’re 1-of-16 who’re advancing?

Its kinda true though, this team IS bad. The top of the top of the team is really, really good, underrated even.

 

[le_sean]

That's pure BS. This time it was the other guys who blew things. He made the plays, when was that time and he was mostly covered by CAR player.

5vs5 I think we could be optimistic. I think there was some good plays between him and Demidov.

He had the puck on the first PP and lost it. Then he never got it again from his linemates because he just doesn’t move. He can’t move.

 

[VT]

But it was very good. Btw, Carrier is a power forward and can keep the puck at the boards very well



And if he will continue in the PO his value will be higher in that season (he will be fit and ready in the next (experience from Columbus more precisely terrible 2020/21 season and great 2021/22 season).

 

[HHel]

I don't understand some of people in here. So much negativity. Do you get some kind of sadisfaction bad mouthing some players.

You guys ingoring Laine's knee injury totally. It still affects his balance, speed and acceleration. And I hope he can get it in shape at offseason.

He never be hustler or hard forecheaker, but he is good 2nd line winger. You are delusional if you think you can replace him internally and get same amount of talent.

Give him fare chance next season. If he doesn’t improve, it's ok and he is gone. But he is one big reason why games still go on.

 

[Mrb1p]

But it was very good.



And if he will continue in the PO his value will be higher in that season (he will be fit and ready in the next (experience from Columbus more precisely terrible 2020/21 season and great 2021/22 season).

This is what I see. Hes not perfect, hes hella slow and he IS frustrating and clearly overpaid but put it to rest.

Theres a couple posters that are so friggin annoying with their irationnal hate.

 

[VT]

This is what I see. Hes not perfect, hes hella slow and he IS frustrating and clearly overpaid but put it to rest.

Theres a couple posters that are so friggin annoying with their irationnal hate.

We can't judge a player who is not medically fit if he is overpaid. That will become apparent next season, including preseason, as he will train. Because that will show a lot about the player too.

 

[HHel]

He had the puck on the first PP and lost it. Then he never got it again from his linemates because he just doesn’t move. He can’t move.

Suzuki and Hutson lost three times and Slaf atleast two times. Is that bad?

You also ingore that PP where Laine took the puck in the zone cleanly.

It's easy to pick one bad play and let good plays aside.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Suzuki and Hutson lost three times and Slaf atleast two times. Is that bad?

You also ingore that PP where Laine took the puck in the zone cleanly.

It's easy to pick one bad play and let good plays aside.

The bar for what a “good play” is from Laine is so f***ing low

Him taking the puck into the zone once is a highlight?

 

[le_sean]

Suzuki and Hutson lost three times and Slaf atleast two times. Is that bad?

You also ingore that PP where Laine took the puck in the zone cleanly.

It's easy to pick one bad play and let good plays aside.

Again, my gripe isn’t Laine on the PP. That’s a team issue. He needs to get better, but so does the whole unit. The problem is his play at even strength and people pretending he was good, like in this thread, are just lying.

What did he have, like one shift in the 3rd period? So even the coaching staff know he’s shit but then there’s people that say his effort defensively is good.

 

[InsideLaineBOOM]

Idk why this debate about Laine is still on going when the coaching staff seems to have already solved it out perfectly. Laine is simply not a positive value player at 5v5. This is not just an opinion, but a simple fact. His 40,31% expected goal share is literally 12th worst in the entire league out of all forwards with more than 500 minutes of playtime, where his closest comparables are guys like Patrick Maroon, Sam Lafferty and Luke Kunin. You might argue that as a talented shooter he's actually better than what his playdriving numbers would suggest, but for this season it's actually the opposite, with Laine being on-ice for 17 goals for and 26 against, a 39,53% goal share.

The coaching staff is very much aware of all this, and as a result tries to minimize the damage that he causes by giving him reduces minutes with some of the most lopsided deployment in the entire league, only comparable to his idol Ovechkin. 73% of his shifts that begin with a faceoff come from the offensive zone, where the hard work of gaining a zone entry has already been done by someone else, most likely our first line, as they are literally the only line in the entire team who on average gain more ice than they lose during their shift. This is where we come to the crux of my argument.

We are by far the worst playdriving team in the playoffs right now. In fact we are still bottom 10 in the league when strictly looking at playdriving numbers even if you only look at results from the past month. That is not a cup contending team. That is a bad team that constantly needs it's star players including the goalie to pull miracles out of its ass to win games that you should not be winning. Scoring powerplay goals at will is a great skill yes, but it is extremely unreliable and extremely overrated in terms of how much money you have to pay for a guy like Laine who can score like hell, but who is the equivalent of a 36 year old Patrick Maroon at 5v5.

In fact I'd much rather pay a guy like Puljujarvi a quarter of that money just so that he can be an absolute dog who can carry the puck to the offensive zone and hound the opposition just so that our boy Nick could one day dream about starting the majority of his shifts from the offensive zone, and still have a functioning back by the time he reaches 30.

A very good post imo if the goal is to present a few chosen numerical and/or statistical facts about Patrik Laine.

But the fact is also that we would not be in the playoffs without Patrik Laine.

It can feel frustrating, contradictory, crazy etc., but imo people should just try to let go of the need to prove that a player X is bad due to stat Y. Or that a player looks lazy and bad and hence is that and only that.

Or would you rather not be in the playoffs?

 

[le_sean]

A very good post imo if the goal is to present a few chosen numerical and/or statistical facts about Patrik Laine.

But the fact is also that we would not be in the playoffs without Patrik Laine.

It can feel frustrating, contradictory, crazy etc., but imo people should just try to let go of the need to prove that a player X is bad due to stat Y. Or that a player looks lazy and bad and hence is that and only that.

Or would you rather not be in the playoffs?

Yes he’s scored PP goals. That isn’t the debate here. He’s a $9m per year PP specialist. That is not a player any team should want long-term.

 

[teamfirst]

That's pure BS. This time it was the other guys who blew things. He made the plays, when was that time and he was mostly covered by CAR player.

5vs5 I think we could be optimistic. I think there was some good plays between him and Demidov.

True, the problem is that Newhook doesn't fit at all with those 2, they need a guy who can read the play and pass the puck and Newhook doesn't have that.

 

[Goalfield13]

When we traded for him, it was a risk as he had been out for a while. We got him for practically nothing. He has proven he can play and score on the PP at the very least. I think he would have good value this offseason, especially if we retain for the one season he has left. I am thankful to him for providing the goals we needed on the PP, but we need to have a more complete team. Any line he is on 5v5 is weaker because of him.

 

[HHel]

Again, my gripe isn’t Laine on the PP. That’s a team issue. He needs to get better, but so does the whole unit. The problem is his play at even strength and people pretending he was good, like in this thread, are just lying.

What did he have, like one shift in the 3rd period? So even the coaching staff know he’s shit but then there’s people that say his effort defensively is good.

But still you write about his PP perfomance.

He 5vs5 isn't good but it's not bad since 4 nation faceoff. It's been ok. I think at 1st period they generated some good looks, so there is hope. But still Newhook isn't solution in that C spot.

I don't understand why they didn't play more in 3rd period. Dvorak line was shit last night.

 

[HHel]

When we traded for him, it was a risk as he had been out for a while. We got him for practically nothing. He has proven he can play and score on the PP at the very least. I think he would have good value this offseason, especially if we retain for the one season he has left. I am thankful to him for providing the goals we needed on the PP, but we need to have a more complete team. Any line he is on 5v5 is weaker because of him.

Wondering why?

 

[CzarDemidov]

Hopefully he doesn't have to have surgery and he can actually train this off-season.

Until then... PP Specialist!

 

[WeThreeKings]

But still you write about his PP perfomance.

He 5vs5 isn't good but it's not bad since 4 nation faceoff. It's been ok. I think at 1st period they generated some good looks, so there is hope. But still Newhook isn't solution in that C spot.

I don't understand why they didn't play more in 3rd period. Dvorak line was shit last night.

They didn't play more because they had a lead and anyone with two eyes would not want Laine on the ice in that situation

 

[Goalfield13]

Wondering why?

OK, and?

 

[HHel]

OK, and?

That plastic thing doesn't affect anything? Okey....

 

[Pat Riot]

Laine is an important reason why we made the playoff. All the optimism at the start of the season vanished when he got injured. When he came back that is when the team start rallying. He will never be a selke nominee but hes backchecking and hes trying to help the team. During the 4 nations he was a usefull player for Finland. Next season I think many posters will change their tunes when Hughes acquired a capable 2dn line center that compliments well the type of player he is. Him and Demidov will be a dangerous duo.

 

[Paddyjack]

Wondering why?

Ok. So if it's not ok to bash Laine because he has a brace on his knee, I don't want to hear anything about Dach either. I suspect his knee was not ready at all this season and he sucked really bad because of it. It's all fine and good to read about "Let's get a 2C this summer", but it may be here already.

And if you disagree, then let me criticize Laine as much as I want.