Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[Mrb1p]

Well his shooting is world best, but the soft passes to teammates that puts them into coverage/trouble and the slow zone entry dangles that break possession and momentum suck. At least I get emotions watching haha..

bottom 6 5v5 time and pp time aren’t that bad if they can stack a 2nd line eventually. I swear if he lost one or two bad habits - not unlike Anderson did (no longer swooping around the net wide as much in his case) I’d like the player much more.

If he does have a 2nd gear and a confident board play next year that’s awesome of course, you start talking extension.

Realistically, he doesn't do those passes at an higher rate than any of the other wingers, and he doesn't turn over the puck than any of the other players. Other players are faster to get back out of trouble, that's one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb. Caufield is notoriously bad at puck management, a lot like Laine, but he has the skating to get back into position.

A lot of the issues will self-resolve when his skating is at least league average with a normal knee. A lot of the other issues will also resolve when he's not with Newhook. He would have at least a half dozen more 5v5 assists if it wasn't for Newhook, and honestly, he'd probably have more goals too. We praised patience for 200+ games with Dach, I'm unsure why we can't praise the same patience for a multiple time 30g scorer currently on pace for 60 points.

 

[Naslundforever]

Realistically, he doesn't do those passes at an higher rate than any of the other wingers, and he doesn't turn over the puck than any of the other players. Other players are faster to get back out of trouble, that's one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb. Caufield is notoriously bad at puck management, a lot like Laine, but he has the skating to get back into position.

A lot of the issues will self-resolve when his skating is at least league average with a normal knee. A lot of the other issues will also resolve when he's not with Newhook. He would have at least a half dozen more 5v5 assists if it wasn't for Newhook, and honestly, he'd probably have more goals too. We praised patience for 200+ games with Dach, I'm unsure why we can't praise the same patience for a multiple time 30g scorer currently on pace for 60 points.

Well I’m not much of a praiser of specific said patience but I get what you mean lol…

I don’t think a completed pass that was projected and puts the receiver in trouble shows up in stats vs a crisp nifty one that opens space for the guy though.

In any case they don’t have to sign him this summer, so a “show me” year next season for him, good for him and the org..

 

[Mrb1p]

Well I’m not much of a praiser of specific said patience but I get what you mean lol…

I don’t think a completed pass that was projected and puts the receiver in trouble shows up in stats vs a crisp nifty one that opens space for the guy though.

In any case they don’t have to sign him this summer, so a “show me” year next season for him, good for him and the org..

They don't at all, and there's no way I would sign him at his current salary. With that said, I still think he can be important.

 

[Sorinth]

He has had the issue of not moving his feet for quite a long time. Some old clips from WPG years. Also it's fair to add that the knee injury might also impact this.

Yeah it's always been a bit of a problem but I think there's a lot of stuff going on that is/was pushing him into doing that more then usual this year. And it's also worth noting that there was been improvement in that department over the year. I can think of 3 times in the past month-ish where Laine got in all alone on the goalie because he was moving his feet, whereas in the first 4 months can't even remember him attempting let alone succeeding at doing it.

 

[NotCommitted]

Some of these takes I just don't get. I watched the game and while I was not in awe of Laine's play, he was doing just fine and through the first 40 minutes of the game the Canadiens gave NOTHING 5v5 with Laine on the ice, he had like 98% xGF and corsi was 9-3 after two periods, with 0 actual shots on goal against. Yet in the GDT it seemed like he was single handedly costing Montreal the game with his 4th line ice time? Maybe his mates did everything perfect to cover for Laine's mistakes, or maybe he actually can do something right once in a bluemoon, who knows.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

Another great game from Laine! Amazing player that did literally nothing.

Wonder if we could get a team to take Laine for nil? Give his money to Bennett. A left shot center who drags team into the fight. Scores 20 goals, good defensively. Bennett fits a lot of what we need

 

[DAChampion]

Without Laine the Habs would be drafting top 5.

 

[DAChampion]

Some of these takes I just don't get. I watched the game and while I was not in awe of Laine's play, he was doing just fine and through the first 40 minutes of the game the Canadiens gave NOTHING 5v5 with Laine on the ice, he had like 98% xGF and corsi was 9-3 after two periods, with 0 actual shots on goal against. Yet in the GDT it seemed like he was single handedly costing Montreal the game with his 4th line ice time? Maybe his mates did everything perfect to cover for Laine's mistakes, or maybe he actually can do something right once in a bluemoon, who knows.

I watched the game too. Laine was actually quite effective on the 4th line. Nice to know the stats back that up.

Given his knee, he should not be playing on 3on3 and on the shootout.

 

[le_sean]

Does he need to take a long walk with the GM like Kovalev? Dreadful

 

[the]

I didn't get a chance to watch the game tonight. @Mrb1p @InsideLaineBOOM @VT @Marioesque how did he look tonight?

 

[Mrb1p]

I didn't get a chance to watch the game tonight. @Mrb1p @InsideLaineBOOM @VT @Marioesque how did he look tonight?

Laine-ish. He had two great setup, one to Demidov in the first and Demidov hit the post, on his first shift he had a mini-breakaway but got pokechecked by Kotchetkov. Rest of the game was quiet-ish, nothing egregrious on either side, they didn't play much in the third.

 

[the]

Laine-ish. He had two great setup, one to Demidov in the first and Demidov hit the post, on his first shift he had a mini-breakaway but got pokechecked by Kotchetkov. Rest of the game was quiet-ish, nothing egregrious on either side, they didn't play much in the third.

Thanks bro. I value your evaluation on his play. Most games you get it right.

 

[Marioesque]

Laine-ish. He had two great setup, one to Demidov in the first and Demidov hit the post, on his first shift he had a mini-breakaway but got pokechecked by Kotchetkov. Rest of the game was quiet-ish, nothing egregrious on either side, they didn't play much in the third.

Yeah that's about it. Also a good d-zone play where he stayed on a guy behind the net and got the puck to Newhook and to Demi for a long range shot. On PP in 1st he found Suzuki alone in front of the net but the pass was hard and bounced off Nicks stick. Oh and had a great chance in 3rd on PP on the right side set up by Slaf but goalie got something on it I think.

Some usual board struggles with puck in offensive zone. Some nice passing.

The line can create chances so it looked better than before.

 

[le_sean]

I didn't get a chance to watch the game tonight. @Mrb1p @InsideLaineBOOM @VT @Marioesque how did he look tonight?

If he was as good as some claim, then why did he only play 8:47 of even strength icetime, only 8 seconds more than a jet lagged rookie in his 2nd game?

He was bad again. Anyone who claims differently is just lying. Coughing up the puck on the PP, the one place he’s supposed to contribute. Ineffective and slow 5v5. Bad angles, poor physicality for a 6’5 player.

 

[Hins77]

Laine put 20 goals this year on 52 games. This is 32 goals on 82 games. Thats what im expecting for a second line winger. Even if Laine has his weakness, who could remplace him? I don't see any futur top 6 winger both in Laval and in our pipeline. Maybe Micheal Hage is a next futur top 6 player, but this is far to be sure. Then, I prefer to keep him and sign at the right price.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

We'll need him on the PP if we wanna go further.

Playoff is a new season hope he gets more confidence

 

[the]

If he was as good as some claim, then why did he only play 8:47 of even strength icetime, only 8 seconds more than a jet lagged rookie in his 2nd game?

He was bad again. Anyone who claims differently is just lying. Coughing up the puck on the PP, the one place he’s supposed to contribute. Ineffective and slow 5v5. Bad angles, poor physicality for a 6’5 player.

Can't comment on the last game. He obviously has his flaws and the criticism is warranted but I also feel a lot are using him as a whipping boy.

The game against Chicago I feel he had some good moments but reading the comments here you would think we lost the game because of him.

He has to contribute more there's no question about it.

 

[salbutera]

We'll need him on the PP if we wanna go further.

Playoff is a new season hope he gets more confidence

But this team sucks, they don’t have any good players & an idiot for a coach …. yet out of 32 teams, they’re 1-of-16 who’re advancing?

 

[Kojo]

We'll need him on the PP if we wanna go further.

Playoff is a new season hope he gets more confidence

His one trick won't work in the playoffs, he's useless from now on. Probably gonna get injured as soon as he get hit.

He's not even good enough for the 4th line in a contending team.

 

[VT]

His one trick won't work in the playoffs, he's useless from now on. Probably gonna get injured as soon as he get hit.

He's not even good enough for the 4th line in a contending team.

The PO is a new season, Toronto can confirm. Maybe the new emotions will change his game completely. Although he's obviously having movement and stability issues right now, which is showing in his play and he's playing average at the moment, not much more (I watched the last two games).

 

[Kojo]

The PO is a new season, Toronto can confirm. Maybe the new emotions will change his game completely. Although he's obviously having movement and stability issues right now, which is showing in his play and he's playing average at the moment, not much more (I watched the last two games).

You are delusional. Nothing is going to change, it's going to get worst.

 

[VT]

You are delusional. Nothing is going to change, it's going to get worst.

We will see but I don't wait anything from him this season. And said it still in December.

 

[Fuonki]

Idk why this debate about Laine is still on going when the coaching staff seems to have already solved it out perfectly. Laine is simply not a positive value player at 5v5. This is not just an opinion, but a simple fact. His 40,31% expected goal share is literally 12th worst in the entire league out of all forwards with more than 500 minutes of playtime, where his closest comparables are guys like Patrick Maroon, Sam Lafferty and Luke Kunin. You might argue that as a talented shooter he's actually better than what his playdriving numbers would suggest, but for this season it's actually the opposite, with Laine being on-ice for 17 goals for and 26 against, a 39,53% goal share.

The coaching staff is very much aware of all this, and as a result tries to minimize the damage that he causes by giving him reduces minutes with some of the most lopsided deployment in the entire league, only comparable to his idol Ovechkin. 73% of his shifts that begin with a faceoff come from the offensive zone, where the hard work of gaining a zone entry has already been done by someone else, most likely our first line, as they are literally the only line in the entire team who on average gain more ice than they lose during their shift. This is where we come to the crux of my argument.

We are by far the worst playdriving team in the playoffs right now. In fact we are still bottom 10 in the league when strictly looking at playdriving numbers even if you only look at results from the past month. That is not a cup contending team. That is a bad team that constantly needs it's star players including the goalie to pull miracles out of its ass to win games that you should not be winning. Scoring powerplay goals at will is a great skill yes, but it is extremely unreliable and extremely overrated in terms of how much money you have to pay for a guy like Laine who can score like hell, but who is the equivalent of a 36 year old Patrick Maroon at 5v5.

In fact I'd much rather pay a guy like Puljujarvi a quarter of that money just so that he can be an absolute dog who can carry the puck to the offensive zone and hound the opposition just so that our boy Nick could one day dream about starting the majority of his shifts from the offensive zone, and still have a functioning back by the time he reaches 30.

 

[Deebs]

I keep holding on for hope that he has a great offseason full of training and whatnot but jesus f christ it's hard to watch this guy. Just a complete dog f'er on the ice. Absolutely zero compete and just looks like he doesn't give two snits out there.

I guess we'll see what happens in the playoffs but fack buddy, show some friggin heart out there.

It's one of the reasons I love players like Gally, the grinders and the bottom pairing guys, who would die for their teammates and the crest any given day. Even if they are not the most talented players, you know exactly what to expect from them every game.

 

[26Mats]

Idk why this debate about Laine is still on going when the coaching staff seems to have already solved it out perfectly. Laine is simply not a positive value player at 5v5. This is not just an opinion, but a simple fact. His 40,31% expected goal share is literally 12th worst in the entire league out of all forwards with more than 500 minutes of playtime, where his closest comparables are guys like Patrick Maroon, Sam Lafferty and Luke Kunin. You might argue that as a talented shooter he's actually better than what his playdriving numbers would suggest, but for this season it's actually the opposite, with Laine being on-ice for 17 goals for and 26 against, a 39,53% goal share.

The coaching staff is very much aware of all this, and as a result tries to minimize the damage that he causes by giving him reduces minutes with some of the most lopsided deployment in the entire league, only comparable to his idol Ovechkin. 73% of his shifts that begin with a faceoff come from the offensive zone, where the hard work of gaining a zone entry has already been done by someone else, most likely our first line, as they are literally the only line in the entire team who on average gain more ice than they lose during their shift. This is where we come to the crux of my argument.

We are by far the worst playdriving team in the playoffs right now. In fact we are still bottom 10 in the league when strictly looking at playdriving numbers even if you only look at results from the past month. That is not a cup contending team. That is a bad team that constantly needs it's star players including the goalie to pull miracles out of its ass to win games that you should not be winning. Scoring powerplay goals at will is a great skill yes, but it is extremely unreliable and extremely overrated in terms of how much money you have to pay for a guy like Laine who can score like hell, but who is the equivalent of a 36 year old Patrick Maroon at 5v5.

In fact I'd much rather pay a guy like Puljujarvi a quarter of that money just so that he can be an absolute dog who can carry the puck to the offensive zone and hound the opposition just so that our boy Nick could one day dream about starting the majority of his shifts from the offensive zone, and still have a functioning back by the time he reaches 30.

What we see could very well be what we're going to get with Laine.

I hope HuGo go out and get a 2c. If they also find a top 6 winger, I'd be fine with them replacing Laine with that winger, and letting Laine go.