Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[Nedved]

He's a liability 5 on 5. He would do well with an extremely defensive minded center to cover his awful neutral zone play. I'm not sure who that player is for us. I would say Dvorak but him Gallagher, and Anderson have created a fantastic line.

 

[DAChampion]

lol that’s such BS and you know it. He’s a hyped 2nd overall pick and will be 27 years old. He’s definitely going to point to how much he’s currently making and that he’s worth it.

The market bears what the market bears.

When Columbus tried trading Laine at 8.5 million/year without retention, they had to throw in a second round pick, even though he was a 27 year old former 2nd overall pick.

Laine is free to demand 9 million or even 16 million if he wants. But that has no bearing on what he will earn.

ETA: I remember people saying that Radulov wanted 7 million a year for 7 years. He ended up signing for a reasonable 5 year, 6 million/year contract.

If Laine improves a little bit next year with better health, I think 6.5 or 7 million a year is a good ballpark.

 

[InsideLaineBOOM]

ETA: I remember people saying that Radulov wanted 7 million a year for 7 years. He ended up signing for a reasonable 5 year, 6 million/year contract.

Ok, lets compare Laine and Radulov:

Laine totally destroys Radulov in Goals, PPGs and GWGs, i.e. the most important forward stats. If Radulov got a 5 year 6 million deal, with a much lower cap era, then Laine should easily get a 5 year 9 million deal.

 

[DAChampion]

Laine should easily get a 5 year 9 million deal.

Columbus had to give Laine away at a salary of 8.5 million/year.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Ok, lets compare Laine and Radulov:
View attachment 1006834
Laine totally destroys Radulov in Goals, PPGs and GWGs, i.e. the most important forward stats. If Radulov got a 5 year 6 million deal, with a much lower cap era, then Laine should easily get a 5 year 9 million deal.

You would have to be insane to give Laine 9 million a year at his current level of performance. When skating is involved he barely looks like a NHL player.

 

[Sorinth]

Yeah unless next season Laine does something incredible he's taking a paycut.

And frankly I very much doubt Laine cares about maximizing his pay anyways, he's almost certainly going to value a healthy mental environment over money.

 

[Marioesque]

You would have to be insane to give Laine 9 million a year at his current level of performance. When skating is involved he barely looks like a NHL player.

If Laine's agent allowed them to negotiate after playing in the worst line of the league, he would be pretty bad at his job.

They'll wait for next season and better exposure playing healthy with better talent.
Negotiate after he has shown what he can do with equal talent and actual top 6 usage.

If that happens, you're gonna be looking way north of 9 million a year.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

If Laine's agent allowed them to negotiate after playing in the worst line of the league, he would be pretty bad at his job.

They'll wait for next season and better exposure playing healthy with better talent.
Negotiate after he has shown what he can do with equal talent and actual top 6 usage.

If that happens, you're gonna be looking way north of 9 million a year.

Yeah if the habs can find some sort of giant man to carry Laine on his back like Master Blaster style maybe then we can finally stop blaming everyone but Laine for his own play.

 

[Marioesque]

Yeah if the habs can find some sort of giant man to carry Laine on his back like Master Blaster style maybe then we can finally stop blaming everyone but Laine for his own play.

Demidov will do just fine. A good 2 way C (like Luostarinen) would help too.

If Laine is the opponents main focus, he can't disappear to be open for shots.

If someone else pulls the focus on themselves (ever seen Demidov play?), Laine is open, and there's nobody else I'd rather have taking shots in offensive zone if I got to pick from any team.

It's nothing new. Draisaitl benefits from McD, Rantanen benefited from MacKinnon and now Hintz. Pasta had Bergy and the rat. Matthews has Marner.

They don't do it with 11 minutes ice time in the worst line in the league (and no, it's not the worst because of him, it was the worst before him). It's asinine to expect top shelf production in that scenario. Bad faith argument to use it as baseline, when he has a career of baseline set when playing in different circumstances

 

[BullLund]

Laine has produced before with some pretty basic players. Roslovic, Jenner, Stastny, Perreault, Little, Ehlers, etc. He has rarely played with truly elite-level talent. Even on Team Finland he played with Lundell and Luostarinen who aren't necessarily first liners, and they performed well.

I chalk this season down to a lack of conditioning and inactivity, not just his linemates. The guy had barely played in the last 2 years. The big concern is whether his performance is affected long term by all the knee injuries. In that case, we won't necessarily see much improvement.

 

[Marioesque]

Laine has produced before with some pretty basic players. Roslovic, Jenner, Stastny, Perreault, Little, Ehlers, etc. He has rarely played with truly elite-level talent. Even on Team Finland he played with Lundell and Luostarinen who aren't necessarily first liners, and they performed well.

I chalk this season down to a lack of conditioning and inactivity, not just his linemates. The guy had barely played in the last 2 years. The big concern is whether his performance is affected long term by all the knee injuries. In that case, we won't necessarily see much improvement.

Yup. And he has produced at elite levels with great players like Scheifele and Aho who themselves were a threat. Legendary U20 and rookie season start (when he played with Scheifele).

I gotta say though, most nights with Little looked exactly like this current line. He was a slower, slightly better passing Newhook at that point.

 

[Redux91]

Yeah unless next season Laine does something incredible he's taking a paycut.

And frankly I very much doubt Laine cares about maximizing his pay anyways, he's almost certainly going to value a healthy mental environment over money.

Bingo

I think it's beyond obvious by this point his next contract is below 8M

And I COMPLETELY agree about the 'maximizing his pay' part
I really take that as a him being in places that made him unhappy so you better PAY me if you want me to stay
He didn't want to stay both times lol but got paid
And I think he really really likes it here now though

I'm definitely willing to listen if he's agreeable with the money, but if he wants 8+ then you ship him at TDL basically

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Demidov will do just fine. A good 2 way C (like Luostarinen) would help too.

If Laine is the opponents main focus, he can't disappear to be open for shots.

If someone else pulls the focus on themselves (ever seen Demidov play?), Laine is open, and there's nobody else I'd rather have taking shots in offensive zone if I got to pick from any team.

It's nothing new. Draisaitl benefits from McD, Rantanen benefited from MacKinnon and now Hintz. Pasta had Bergy and the rat. Matthews has Marner.

They don't do it with 11 minutes ice time in the worst line in the league (and no, it's not the worst because of him, it was the worst before him). It's asinine to expect top shelf production in that scenario. Bad faith argument to use it as baseline, when he has a career of baseline set when playing in different circumstances

Nonsense post, all the players you listed can still produce when playing with other players, seems like when Laine has to play with someone who is "below him" he just stops skating, passing, winning board battles or doing anything other than standing in one spot and shooting.

Others have said it but if he comes back next season at this same level of play he will not get anywhere close to 9 mill, he will be looking much much lower and shorter term. No one is paying Suzuki money for a powerplay turret.

 

[Marioesque]

I'm definitely willing to listen if he's agreeable with the money, but if he wants 8+ then you ship him at TDL basically

There's a lot of time between now and then, a lot can change. So fixing any price goals is difficult

 

[Marioesque]

seems like when Laine has to play with someone who is "below him" he just stops skating, passing, winning board battles or doing anything other than standing in one spot and shooting.

Other people have listed "not elite " players he has done well with, I'm not gonna repeat facts to those who never listen

All of the mentioned players would have a massive dip in their production if they played 11 minutes in the worst line in the league.

Rantanen went from 1st line with MacKinnon to 1st line with Aho and Jarvis to 1st line with Hintz and Robertson and his production dipped.

We just played Pasta without Bergy and the rat, did you notice him?

I've watched Sam Reinhart, 2nd line C in Buffalo with 40-50 pts, and now 60+ goal scorer (including playoffs) in Florida. Same player, different circumstance.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Laine making a successful backhand saucer pass challenge (impossible)

 

[Archijerej]

Laine making a successful backhand saucer pass challenge (impossible)

It's getting right up there with Galchenyuk's head fakes followed by a turnover on my list of favorite hockey tropes.

 

[the]

How the f*** did he score this?

 

[NotCommitted]

I'm a big Laine supporter but the linemates thing gets tiring, his results have been ass 5v5 this season and that his linemates have been just as bad is hardly a big consolation.

I have very limited viewings of him in MTL and what I saw wasn't nearly as bad as I expected reading this thread but there were times he seemed just a bit off on a lot of things I'd normally expect him to execute well. He plays a finesse game and being just a bit off on timing and execution will really tank the effectiveness of his game. His passing tends to be an overlooked part of his game and normally the passes themselves are downright elite but what little I've watched I've seen some good ones but also a lot of ones that are just slightly off, a bit behind etc, just typical stuff when your timing is not there and the line is dysfunctional. If he gets the little things right then he could still be very effective even with limited skating.

He's always going to fumble the puck a lot, especially at the boards, has something to do with the blade of his stick but that's the price you pay for that shot. At least that's what he said himself some years ago, that the shape or angle or whatever he uses makes it difficult controlling pucks especially when it's coming from the boards, but it's what he likes for shooting. So everytime you see him fumble a puck by the wall, think of a goal he scored with that shot. And everytime you see him score a goal, remember he fumbles those pucks a lot

However it's not that long ago it looked like Laine's statline was going to be 0+0 in 0 games played for this season so maybe it's not all that bad and even if he sucks currently 5v5, it's still a lot better than missing another year and at least he has shot on leading the league in PP goals. Btw on that, I've been whining all his NHL career for teams to utilize the simple pass from D-man to Laine, which neither WPG or CBJ really did and now Montreal is doing it and Hutson is dishing it out like a boss and this is what happens. Gee, who could've known it's a good idea.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Laine is so unlike what the team is building in terms of style. He holds back the 2nd line, 5 V 5 and is too expensive to be a PP specialist lower in the lineup. My prediction is that Hughes kept the last retention spot instead of dealing it for a draft pick at the deadline for a reason. Laine at 50% retained to a rebuilding team needing to get to the cap floor like Chicago or San Jose, or a team with bad pro scouting like Detroit before the draft. Demidov needs a better role model than Laine. Hell sign Brad Marchand, at least he will learn to chirp better than Slaf does.

 

[CzarDemidov]

He holds back the 2nd line, 5 V 5 and is too expensive to be a PP specialist lower in the lineup.

Do the Habs have cap issues???

Demidov needs a better role model than Laine.

Come up for air, please.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Laine is so unlike what the team is building in terms of style. He holds back the 2nd line, 5 V 5 and is too expensive to be a PP specialist lower in the lineup. My prediction is that Hughes kept the last retention spot instead of dealing it for a draft pick at the deadline for a reason. Laine at 50% retained to a rebuilding team needing to get to the cap floor like Chicago or San Jose, or a team with bad pro scouting like Detroit before the draft. Demidov needs a better role model than Laine. Hell sign Brad Marchand, at least he will learn to chirp better than Slaf does.

Brad Marchand is washed like Savard.

Don't worry Demidov will have Suzuki showing him the way.

 

[26Mats]

Laine is so unlike what the team is building in terms of style. He holds back the 2nd line, 5 V 5 and is too expensive to be a PP specialist lower in the lineup. My prediction is that Hughes kept the last retention spot instead of dealing it for a draft pick at the deadline for a reason. Laine at 50% retained to a rebuilding team needing to get to the cap floor like Chicago or San Jose, or a team with bad pro scouting like Detroit before the draft. Demidov needs a better role model than Laine. Hell sign Brad Marchand, at least he will learn to chirp better than Slaf does.

I'm still hoping can get back to playing a little faster, with good training and conditioning this offseason, and with his knee healing a little more. But I realize he may never get his speed back.

We'll see what HuGo do. I don't think Laine has much trade value. But if they trade Laine and bring in a 2c, I'd like them to get another top six winger while we wait for Hage. While we're overflowing with good bottom sixers, no one else besides Laine and Demidov are top sixers. Not Dach at this point, not Neehook, not Gallagher.

 

[yianik]

Ok, lets compare Laine and Radulov:
View attachment 1006834
Laine totally destroys Radulov in Goals, PPGs and GWGs, i.e. the most important forward stats. If Radulov got a 5 year 6 million deal, with a much lower cap era, then Laine should easily get a 5 year 9 million deal.

The question is "what have you done for me now ? " And now, he is a 20 - 35 goal scoring PP specialist and there is no $45M 5 year deal for that. See how he does next year though.

 

[GrandBison]

The guy should just stop to try to play the puck.