Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[bud12]

I'm never ok when people change the claim on the fly. Logical fallacies grind my gears.

If you want to talk about give away, use your logic a not useless stats. There is no " change the claim on the fly". And just for fact, Laine have more giveway/60 than Caufield

 

[DAChampion]

If you want to talk about give away, use your logic a not useless stats. There is no " change the claim on the fly". And just for fact, Laine have more giveway/60 than Caufield

By the way, I don't know if this is still true, but a few years ago someone showed that giveaways and takeaways weren't tracked objectively, there was a strong dependence on which human was counting in which arena.

 

[HHel]

If you want to talk about give away, use your logic a not useless stats. There is no " change the claim on the fly". And just for fact, Laine have more giveway/60 than Caufield

You can use any stats you want to make our agenda, but only thing mathers is GF/60 and GA/60. Everything else is pure interpretation.

 

[Marioesque]

If you want to talk about give away

I didn't, it's not that meaningful to me. There are much more impactful things to discuss.

I get it, Laine is not your usual guy. If there was a downhill ski race, the grinders would be lined up at the start line raring to go, waiting for the start pistol. Laine would be putting his skis on slowly when the rest start going.

Then when the first grinders arrive to the finish line, Patty has been there a while already with his feet on the table finishing his second cup of coffee.

It might feel unfair that someone who seemingly doesn't do all the "necessary work" and "look busy" still gets the job done better than others. But that's just how it is when you have superior talent in the skills that matter the most in your task.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Yeah, Columbus really ruined Laine. It's easy to forget how good Laine can be after those years in Columbus. 4 years in Columbus and only 18 powerplay goals combined. There's a chance Laine will have more powerplay goals this year than he had during his whole run in Columbus... And don't compair Laine to Radulov. Laine is a much better player than Radulov.

Radulov's intensity and talent combinaison was something else. I would take prime Radulov before prime Laine without remorse.

Edit: I'm glad my fellow Habs fans said the same thing, before me.

 

[bud12]

You can use any stats you want to make our agenda, but only thing mathers is GF/60 and GA/60. Everything else is pure interpretation.

Sure. So I guess if the only thing that mathers is gf and ga, we can all say that Laine is not a good 5v5 player?

 

[DAChampion]

I wonder how Laine can help in the playoffs.

Right now he's a PP machine, but there are fewer PPs in the playoffs, and the remaining teams have better PKs.

 

[HHel]

Sure. So I guess if the only thing that mathers is gf and ga, we can all say that Laine is not a good 5v5 player?

And again you change the agenda for you purpoces.

I guess Montreal would have won as many games without Laine's PP goals.

 

[Marioesque]

we can all say that Laine is not a good 5v5 player?

I've watched his whole career. He's a force multiplier with the right people, he's a passenger with the wrong people.

Dach and Newhook were the "leading" players in NHL in minuses when Laine was planted with them. That was never the environment you get the best out of Laine. He needs to play with other high talent and the results will be great. This has been pretty evident all through his career.

You can decide what Laine you want, by changing the linemates around him. Laine-Scheifele-Perreault was a top 3 line in the league for the time it lasted, he was getting first line minutes and they were in high 60s and low 70s in corsi, massively dominant in +/- .

There is NOTHING unsustainable in his PP shooting this season. His CBJ seasons were the outlier. He was not utilized in the spot where he's the biggest threat in the league. Johnny Hockey played the left side, Laine was often the RD on PP. That PP was ran by Werenski from the point and he could not create the passes that MTL players can. Laine was just as lethal on PP in Jets as he is now. Because he was properly utilized.

 

[HHel]

I've watched his whole career. He's a force multiplier with the right people, he's a passenger with the wrong people.

Dach and Newhook were the "leading" players in NHL in minuses when Laine was planted with them. That was never the environment you get the best out of Laine. He needs to play with other high talent and the results will be great. This has been pretty evident all through his career.

You can decide what Laine you want, by changing the linemates around him. Laine-Scheifele-Perreault was a top 3 line in the league for the time it lasted, he was getting first line minutes and they were in high 60s and low 70s in corsi, massively dominant in +/- .

There is NOTHING unsustainable in his PP shooting this season. His CBJ seasons were the outlier. He was not utilized in the spot where he's the biggest threat in the league. Johnny Hockey played the left side, Laine was often the RD on PP. That PP was ran by Werenski from the point and he could not create the passes that MTL players can. Laine was just as lethal on PP in Jets as he is now. Because he was properly utilized.

And the first time in his career there is proper QB and right wall passer in his PP unit.

 

[bud12]

And again you change the agenda for you purpoces.

I guess Montreal would have won as many games without Laine's PP goals.

Do you think Laine is a good 5v5 player by using your logic?

 

[HHel]

Do you think Laine is a good 5v5 player by using your logic?

Did I say so?

I know he can be when his is fully healty.

Last game Roy's goal. It started when Laine retrieved puck to defender.

If you could put that hate aside. You could see that he can do more than stand still at left dot in PP.

 

[Marioesque]

And the first time in his career there is proper QB and right wall passer in his PP unit.

Yup. The 5 on 5 impact for him will improve by the roster improving.

He's only had that situation in NHL at few points in Jets, where he was on the left on PP, with proper feeds, and also in 1st line 5 on 5 at the same time. But that's when he was extremely productive. Those conditions have not been recreated since, but next season is very potential because Demidov comes in and he is the kind of talent that will benefit Laine and from Laine.

 

[Levard]

We are where in the standings this year without Laine's contribution?!

The guy is definitely needed.

And the few last games his 5v5 play was waayyyy better.

 

[Tabarouette]

I wonder how Laine can help in the playoffs.

Right now he's a PP machine, but there are fewer PPs in the playoffs, and the remaining teams have better PKs.

This is the season with the least penalties since 2003 or something so, I doubt they'll get even lower in the playoffs

 

[Marioesque]

I know he can be when his is fully healty.

Yeah we've both SEEN him be good 5 on 5. We've watched him for 8 seasons. I think bud12 comes into these conclusions with a 20+ game viewing experience.

 

[bud12]

Yeah we've both SEEN him be good 5 on 5. We've watched him for 8 seasons. I think bud12 comes into these conclusions with a 20+ game viewing experience.

Like a said in previous post. THIS YEAR.

 

[HHel]

Yeah we've both SEEN him be good 5 on 5. We've watched him for 8 seasons. I think bud12 comes into these conclusions with a 20+ game viewing experience.

And that's why little bit stund how people are judging him based what was this seasons starting point.

 

[Marioesque]

Like a said in previous post. THIS YEAR.

I didn't see "this year" when you wanted to make this generalization

"we can all say that Laine is not a good 5v5 player?"

 

[Marioesque]

Just for context on the 5 on 5 discussion...

https://thehockeywriters.com/scheifele-and-laine-a-dangerous-duo/

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Laine has to be one of the most disrespected close to PPG players in NHL history. If he did all the things people expected of him, he would be a 12-14 million player in the new cap era. He went into a shit show and turned around a lackluster and frustrating power play in a heartbeat. But suddenly those goals are just gimmicks, unsustainable shots from a player who is so one-dimensional that he was given the spot just to contribute.

Before Laine, this team had nothing to do with the playoffs. On the contrary, we were drooling over all the potential centres in the draft. And now that we're in the mix - well, isn't it obvious that he has nothing to contribute in the tighter playoff hockey? Probably a healthy scratch before Game 3.

Man, we celebrate when Josh Anderson is projected to have a 26-point season. In his fifth season, Bergevin's gamble is finally paying off. Meanwhile, we discredit almost everything Laine does.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

This is the season with the least penalties since 2003 or something so, I doubt they'll get even lower in the playoffs

How much does that have to do with less fighting though?

 

[bud12]

I didn't see "this year" when you wanted to make this generalization

"we can all say that Laine is not a good 5v5 player?"

You clearly never watched Laine this year..... if Caufield stayed on Laine spot on the pp, the guy would be near 40G. Laine was given this spot because it's the only place he's remotly utile and even then, if he does something other than shooting the puck, the majority of the time it turn out to be shitty play. He's good at one thing. Shooting the puck from the circle dot on the pp. Only a dumb gm would.give him 12M a year

And if you think that Laine pp goal are sustainable, I have a flying car to sell you.

 

[Miller Time]

Laine has to be one of the most disrespected close to PPG players in NHL history. If he did all the things people expected of him, he would be a 12-14 million player in the new cap era. He went into a shit show and turned around a lackluster and frustrating power play in a heartbeat. But suddenly those goals are just gimmicks, unsustainable shots from a player who is so one-dimensional that he was given the spot just to contribute.

Before Laine, this team had nothing to do with the playoffs. On the contrary, we were drooling over all the potential centres in the draft. And now that we're in the mix - well, isn't it obvious that he has nothing to contribute in the tighter playoff hockey? Probably a healthy scratch before Game 3.

Man, we celebrate when Josh Anderson is projected to have a 26-point season. In his fifth season, Bergevin's gamble is finally paying off. Meanwhile, we discredit almost everything Laine does.

 

[Hins77]

Laine has to be one of the most disrespected close to PPG players in NHL history. If he did all the things people expected of him, he would be a 12-14 million player in the new cap era. He went into a shit show and turned around a lackluster and frustrating power play in a heartbeat. But suddenly those goals are just gimmicks, unsustainable shots from a player who is so one-dimensional that he was given the spot just to contribute.

Before Laine, this team had nothing to do with the playoffs. On the contrary, we were drooling over all the potential centres in the draft. And now that we're in the mix - well, isn't it obvious that he has nothing to contribute in the tighter playoff hockey? Probably a healthy scratch before Game 3.

Man, we celebrate when Josh Anderson is projected to have a 26-point season. In his fifth season, Bergevin's gamble is finally paying off. Meanwhile, we discredit almost everything Laine does.

And Laine is currently playing with a 3rd C in Newhook and an ahler in Roy. I mean. Hebis facing top defender, thats tough when your linemates arent that good. Laine can't do it alone. Can't wait to have Demidov on his line