Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[Lafleurs Guy]

Demidov needs to play with good players, especially as a rookie. With his current KHL team, he is playing with Evgeny Kuznetsov and other "vets" like Mikhail Grigorenko. Expecting him to be a major cog on the Habs with "middling" players like Dach (unless he vastly improves), would not be fair to the rookie.

Let's move on from Dach. I don't agree at all that he's a middling player but it doesn't matter anymore. He's not in that role going forward.

I think Demidov and Laine have the potential to be a terrific combination. Laine is a pure finisher and if Demidov can set him up he could rack up goals for us. That means we need a center who is a play driver and can handle some physical play. Sam Bennett would be good - but good luck getting him. Crosby would be ideal and I would pay a ton for him but he's also unlikely to come here. I'm not sure who's out there but we're going to have to make a move. No way we just go in with no 2nd line center now that Dach's gone down.

 

[Sorinth]

Demidov needs to play with good players, especially as a rookie. With his current KHL team, he is playing with Evgeny Kuznetsov and other "vets" like Mikhail Grigorenko. Expecting him to be a major cog on the Habs with "middling" players like Dach (unless he vastly improves), would not be fair to the rookie.

Lots of high draft picks come in as rookies and play with "middling" players and manage just fine. There's certainly reasons we should be looking at getting a "real" top-6 C, but it has little to do with Demidov.

 

[26Mats]

Demidov needs to play with good players, especially as a rookie. With his current KHL team, he is playing with Evgeny Kuznetsov and other "vets" like Mikhail Grigorenko. Expecting him to be a major cog on the Habs with "middling" players like Dach (unless he vastly improves), would not be fair to the rookie.

It's not so kuch expecting as hoping...

We'll se what HuGo do this summer. Can they find the 2c of the future, or at least a candidate, as Dach was a and still is another potential candidate? Or will they jave to settle for a vet stop gap while they continue to look? Ir will they find none of the future 2c, a candidate, or a vet stop gap and have to go with Dach/Beck/Kapanen/Newhook? We shall see what they come up with...

So far, at the TDL they weren't able to find anything at their price...

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

I wish Laine all the best but I don't see him as a Hab longterm. I didn't realize he was so one dimensional.

He's not part of future plans. The Habs got a second for Jordan Harris, that's how you analyse it. You might get a first at the deadline and cut your losses. He's a less physical Kovalev. I mean Kovalev was miles apart from Laine.

 

[HabzSauce]

Getting the 2c of the future is big move, especially if it comes with a long term contract. You don't want to get it wrong.

Sure there stop gaps that would be better than Beck, each, and Kapanen. But we don't want to give up the farm for a mediocre long term solution, or even worse a big long term contract for a player that may steeply decline after the age of 32.

If we can't find a stop gap or a real long term solution, I'd rather go with Beck, each, or Kapanen. But hugo should at least be able to find a stop gap.

I think our best bet is Duchene for now. Not much out there right now that I'm really big on personally. Id be most interested in byfield but don't see kings moving him

Duchene for next 2 years at least is miles better than what we've had since 2021, even if he's getting older. That'll buy us time to see what we have in Hage and maybe by then trade/UFA market will be more attractive

 

[BehindTheTimes]

It means Laine is the best player on his line.

Worst according to HF logic. Dach and Newhook couldn’t produce because they were saddled with a guy who out produced the both of them.

 

[26Mats]

I think our best bet is Duchene for now. Not much out there right now that I'm really big on personally. Id be most interested in byfield but don't see kings moving him

Duchene for next 2 years at least is miles better than what we've had since 2021, even if he's getting older. That'll buy us time to see what we have in Hage and maybe by then trade/UFA market will be more attractive

Yeah, and I think the best bet to get a really good solution long term was to get tank one more year ( this year) and draft one high. Plus in the sellers market we could have gotten some 1sts and 2nds to also try to draft one or to trade up in the draft...

But hopefully Hughes can pull a rabbit out of his hat. Maybe Hage is that rabbit.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It means Laine is the best player on his line.

It means he’s amazing on the PP.

 

[HuGort]

Im not worked up about Laine in the least.

We didnt give up a huge amount of assets for him. In fact we were paid to take him as we didnt need salary retention. Taking his salary is not preventing us from making moves.

We knew we were getting a formerly elite but struggling player.

I was hopeful. But he gets injured just like that. He has no 2C to play with. Sure , the effort does not seem to be there.

No decisions need to be made. Likely we have to pay someone to take him, and why do that ?

Hopefully we have a 2C next season as well as Mr. Demidov. Hopefully Laine plays well after having the summer to work on things. If he doesnt he leaves. If he plays well and wont sign we trade him for good assets back.

So personally Im chill about Laine and Ill see what happens next season.

It's the 9m in caproom I want this summer. Hughes probably eat some of his contract just to move Laine at the draft. But return won't be high.

 

[yianik]

It's the 9m in caproom I want this summer. Hughes probably eat some of his contract just to move Laine at the draft. But return won't be high.

Dont we have almost $11.5 M in Cap space as it is ? If we do, and Im not 100% on it, then we should be alright.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Worst according to HF logic. Dach and Newhook couldn’t produce because they were saddled with a guy who out produced the both of them.

He literally was, for a time being, the worst player on that line.

And he was severely outproduced by both of them 5 on 5 in that time period, and neither of them produced that much 5 on 5.

The line sucked. Laine sucked with it.

So tired of people just wanting to pretend Laine was held down. He was miserable for a stretch there. It was also to be expected.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

He literally was, for a time being, the worst player on that line.

And he was severely outproduced by both of them 5 on 5 in that time period, and neither of them produced that much 5 on 5.

The line sucked. Laine sucked with it.

So tired of people just wanting to pretend Laine was held down. He was miserable for a stretch there. It was also to be expected.

Severely out produced. Haha. You sure? Neither one of them produced much of anything.

The game isn’t only played at 5 vs 5. They all sucked 5 vs 5, but at least Laine brought something to the table. On one leg, with not much game action, no less. It’s too bad he got banged up again. He was starting to trend in a positive direction after the 4Nations.


You exaggerate to make your claims. Dach and Newhook have not severely outproduced anyone.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Severely out produced. Haha. You sure? Neither one of them produced much of anything.

The game isn’t only played at 5 vs 5. They all sucked 5 vs 5, but at least Laine brought something to the table. On one leg, with not much game action, no less. It’s too bad he got banged up again. He was starting to trend in a positive direction after the 4Nations.


You exaggerate to make your claims. Dach and Newhook have not severely outproduced anyone.

They did 5 on 5 the stretch that they broke up the line.

Laine was a walking turnover, not even a skating turnover, he was literally walking on the ice 5 on 5 and was turning every puck over.

The argument isn't whether or not Laine was bringing something to the table on the PP.. it was whether or not Laine was being held back by his linemates. He was not. The line didn't work. It was Laine doing most of the bad play 5 on 5 that killed their possessions in that stretch.

It's OK to admit he was terrible during that stretch. Not everything has to be the fault of someone else. He has a valid excuse for his play to dip.

No one argues that he isn't a weapon on the PP. That's why he was able to put production on the board while still playing bad hockey vs. Dach who had a similar injury history and interruption to his play, they were both playing terrible hockey off their injury.. Dach just doesn't have a top 5 shot in the league that could have given him production in lieu of average, at best, play in all other situations.

Laine was bad because he was coming off a major injury, a mental health challenge, and was still not a very healthy player prior his most recent injuries. Not because who he was playing with. He hasn't been good 5 on 5 with any other mix, either.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

They did 5 on 5 the stretch that they broke up the line.

Laine was a walking turnover, not even a skating turnover, he was literally walking on the ice 5 on 5 and was turning every puck over.

The argument isn't whether or not Laine was bringing something to the table on the PP.. it was whether or not Laine was being held back by his linemates. He was not. The line didn't work. It was Laine doing most of the bad play 5 on 5 that killed their possessions in that stretch.

It's OK to admit he was terrible during that stretch. Not everything has to be the fault of someone else. He has a valid excuse for his play to dip.

No one argues that he isn't a weapon on the PP. That's why he was able to put production on the board while still playing bad hockey vs. Dach who had a similar injury history and interruption to his play, they were both playing terrible hockey off their injury.. Dach just doesn't have a top 5 shot in the league that could have given him production in lieu of average, at best, play in all other situations.

Laine was bad because he was coming off a major injury, a mental health challenge, and was still not a very healthy player prior his most recent injuries. Not because who he was playing with. He hasn't been good 5 on 5 with any other mix, either.

I never thought any of Laine’s challenges were related to his linemates, although, I don’t think they helped him much. I was poking fun at this idea that Newhook and Dach were playing so much better. The 3 of them stunk together, except Laine is elite at putting the puck in the net. The other 2 don’t do much of anything.

Newhook could be better I think, but I’m not sure we have the right spot for him.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The plan was always to see where he is next year at the deadline , he has a full season next year to get into shape/improve on his statuesque skating.

It's really not a big deal , some people seem to be stressing about Laine but I don't get why.

I guess if you are trying to accelerate the rebuild and go all in his cap hit is a problem? I don't see us at that stage whatsoever yet personally

 

[WeThreeKings]

I never thought any of Laine’s challenges were related to his linemates, although, I don’t think they helped him much. I was poking fun at this idea that Newhook and Dach were playing so much better. The 3 of them stunk together, except Laine is elite at putting the puck in the net. The other 2 don’t do much of anything.

Newhook could be better I think, but I’m not sure we have the right spot for him.

The whole line had no chemistry. When Laine was removed from that line, Dach and Newhook did have more success because it wasn't an auto turnover whenever the puck got to their winger. It didn't make their increased output last much longer though.

That line was together and stayed together because all 3 other lines were rolling. Now they are forced to try something different due to Dach's injury and we've seen a better Laine after the break. I hope we see more of better Laine because Demidov can't be on a line with Dach and Newhook next year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They did 5 on 5 the stretch that they broke up the line.

Laine was a walking turnover, not even a skating turnover, he was literally walking on the ice 5 on 5 and was turning every puck over.

The argument isn't whether or not Laine was bringing something to the table on the PP.. it was whether or not Laine was being held back by his linemates. He was not. The line didn't work. It was Laine doing most of the bad play 5 on 5 that killed their possessions in that stretch.

It's OK to admit he was terrible during that stretch. Not everything has to be the fault of someone else. He has a valid excuse for his play to dip.

No one argues that he isn't a weapon on the PP. That's why he was able to put production on the board while still playing bad hockey vs. Dach who had a similar injury history and interruption to his play, they were both playing terrible hockey off their injury.. Dach just doesn't have a top 5 shot in the league that could have given him production in lieu of average, at best, play in all other situations.

Laine was bad because he was coming off a major injury, a mental health challenge, and was still not a very healthy player prior his most recent injuries. Not because who he was playing with. He hasn't been good 5 on 5 with any other mix, either.

I don't get how people don't see this. Were they not watching the games? Laine was awful. Just like Dach was when he came back. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a player recovering and finding his game.

And then you get smart posters bringing up total points and ignoring the fact that he was dominant on the PP. It's dumb.

Players take a while to come back from injury. This is nothing new. I don't know why people insist on making it seem that he was better than he was. He sucked at 5 on 5. HIs numbers were among the absolute worst in the NHL. It's just a fact.

PP? Totally different story.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Safe to say he won't be extended, which is sad because I was very excited when he was picked up.

He stood out like a sore thumb during our 13-3-3 run. Gives away the puck a ton and is very weak along the boards.

Maybe he feels better next year with the knee, but so far other than standing still on the PP he isn't very good.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The plan was always to see where he is next year at the deadline , he has a full season next year to get into shape/improve on his statuesque skating.

It's really not a big deal , some people seem to be stressing about Laine but I don't get why.

I guess if you are trying to accelerate the rebuild and go all in his cap hit is a problem? I don't see us at that stage whatsoever yet personally

He was always going to get off to a slower start. He'd been off for a while. But then came the preseason injury and it exacerbated things.

The good news is that his shoulder doesn't look like it was affected at all. From minute one he was insane on the PP. Maybe the best player in the league.

But 5 on 5 and PP are two different things.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm not sure they won't extend Laine.. he will need to improve 5 on 5 or come to terms with being paid as a PP specialist. If neither of those things happen, then yes, they aren't going to pay him what he's looking for.

But I don't see them cutting ties this summer. Demidov needs someone with top 6 talent to play with.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm not sure they won't extend Laine.. he will need to improve 5 on 5 or come to terms with being paid as a PP specialist. If neither of those things happen, then yes, they aren't going to pay him what he's looking for.

But I don't see them cutting ties this summer. Demidov needs someone with top 6 talent to play with.

No reason to cut him or deal him. By all means bring him back. Demidov might be able to bring out the best in him. The man has talent.

But I completely agree that Laine is going to have to reset his expectations on salary. There's no way I'd pony up 8x8 for him like this. Maybe if he improves next year but honestly, he's a pretty one dimensional player.

 

[SlafySZN]

Worst according to HF logic. Dach and Newhook couldn’t produce because they were saddled with a guy who out produced the both of them.

On the PP.

 

[Scriptor]

No reason to cut him or deal him. By all means bring him back. Demidov might be able to bring out the best in him. The man has talent.

But I completely agree that Laine is going to have to reset his expectations on salary. There's no way I'd pony up 8x8 for him like this. Maybe if he improves next year but honestly, he's a pretty one dimensional player.

8 X 6.5M if he has a bit more jump in his step at even strength.