Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

[SOLR]

Laine doesn't need a playmaker. You've even claimed to say he plays best with players like Boone Jenner. If I had to compare lines, I'd move him to Dvorak and Gallagher. Newhook would be a good partner, but not Dach. He has the bad FO. He's not good in front of the net, in the corners, around the boards. I don't know about last game, but more than once I've seen Laine in front of the net instead of using his shot. What kind of stupidity is that? Other lines have players in front of the net - Slafkovsky, Anderson, Heineman if just one. Only the second line doesn't. To be successful Anderson must be on the wing because he has excellent acceleration, is fast, wins battles.

You missed the point of my post entirely. I'm adding Demidov to DACH, I couldn't care less if Laine is happy or productive. He's not here long-term.

And what? I wouldn't talk about Boone at all since I don't know him enough. Case of mistaken identity or projection?

 

[VT]

You missed the point of my post entirely. I'm adding Demidov to DACH, I couldn't care less if Laine is happy or productive. He's not here long-term.

And what? I wouldn't talk about Boone at all since I don't know him enough. Case of mistaken identity or projection?

How do you know he's not here long term? Do you know Hughes personally?

Jenner is someone in between a power forward and a grinder with great FO, in front of the net, around the boards, corners.

And which player on the Laine - Dach - Demidov line would play in front of the net? Dach? I can see it now. I repeat, every line needs to have a power forward. That's an in SKA. Demidov plays with Plotnikov/Bardakov, that is unless Rotenberg is making up stupid stuff. For example when Ivan played with Andronov and Akolzin. And TOP 6 was... no comment. More precisely the lines.

 

[SOLR]

How do you know he's not here long term? Do you know Hughes personally?

Jenner is someone in between a power forward and a grinder with great FO, in front of the net, around the boards, corners.

And which player on the Laine - Dach - Demidov line would play in front of the net? Dach? I can see it now. I repeat, every line needs to have a power forward. That's an in SKA. Demidov plays with Plotnikov/Bardakov, that is unless Rotenberg is making up stupid stuff. For example when Ivan played with Andronov and Akolzin. And TOP 6 was... no comment.

Laine doesn't fit the hierarchy set or the play style of the rest of the rebuild. He has 1 skill and 1 skill only left, the one timer on the power play. You don't win championships with this. If Hughes sees otherwise, then he's no wiser than Bergevin. Laine is a consistent defensive liability and non-factor in 5v5.

Of course, I'd take Boone Dach/Demidov. Laine out.
Or I'd trade Laine to replace Dach in the 2C. And move Dach to LW. Not 100% sure Evans shouldn't get a shot at this.

 

[VT]

Laine doesn't fit the hierarchy set or the play style of the rest of the rebuild. He has 1 skill and 1 skill only left, the one timer on the power play. You don't win championships with this. If Hughes sees otherwise, then he's no wiser than Bergevin. Laine is a consistent defensive liability and non-factor in 5v5.

Of course, I'd take Boone Dach/Demidov. Laine out.
Or I'd trade Laine to replace Dach in the 2C. And move Dach to LW. Not 100% sure Evans shouldn't get a shot at this.

Jenner is 31 now and often injured.

This is 2022/23 season stats when he had 2 injuries and one illness. Third injury he had in the end of the season and than didn't play to the end of the season. Look good at the PP. The worst of all. That does not look like 1 skill. And his speed was like Caufield's speed.

His center was especially Roslovic who is a winger. Yes, was often playing with Gaudreau but they do not have chemistry, Johnny made him worse. Because of Werenski, Bean, also How isn't did not play too many games our best offensive d-man was.... Blankenburg. Patrik played especially with Peeke, Gudbranson, Berni and Gavrikov... all defensive d-men so forwards did not often support from defense.

He played only 18 games in the next season, 14 after concussion. Then injury again and psychical problems. You know his situation in this season.



Btw, these stats were best in the team.

You (fans) do not know Laine. Absolutely.

 

[NotCommitted]

I haven't watched Montreal games so I have no idea how he's been playing there, but he didn't look too bad for team Finland in the 4 nations. Clearly not at his best but he wasn't the kind of liability 5v5 it seems he's been for MTL judging from the comments. His two last seasons in CBJ before the injuries and PAP he was excellent 5v5. That's two years ago now though, just saying it doesn't seem far fetched he'd bounce back once he's back to 100% and has more games under his belt. MTL org or fans should be in no rush, they have until TDL 25-26 to figure out what to do with him.

 

[DAChampion]

If Carbonneau the line scrambler was coach Laine would have had a shot with Suzuki by now.

Pezzetta - Suzuki - Laine
Newhook - Dvorak - Caulfield
Slafkovsky - Evans - Gallagher
Anderson - Dach - Armia

 

[Scriptor]

If Carbonneau the line scrambler was coach Laine would have had a shot with Suzuki by now.

Pezzetta - Suzuki - Laine
Newhook - Dvorak - Caulfield
Slafkovsky - Evans - Gallagher
Anderson - Dach - Armia

With that lineup, I definitely stop watching the rest of the season.

 

[Toene]

If Carbonneau the line scrambler was coach Laine would have had a shot with Suzuki by now.

Pezzetta - Suzuki - Laine
Newhook - Dvorak - Caulfield
Slafkovsky - Evans - Gallagher
Anderson - Dach - Armia

Iirc it was Gainey in his short stint after firing Carbo who put Georges Laraque with Kovalev and Koivu on the first line. It was surreal lol.

 

[SOLR]

Jenner is 31 now and often injured.

This is 2022/23 season stats when he had 2 injuries and one illness. Third injury he had in the end of the season and than didn't play to the end of the season. Look good at the PP. The worst of all. That does not look like 1 skill. And his speed was like Caufield's speed.

His center was especially Roslovic who is a winger. Yes, was often playing with Gaudreau but they do not have chemistry, Johnny made him worse. Because of Werenski, Bean, also How isn't did not play too many games our best offensive d-man was.... Blankenburg. Patrik played especially with Peeke, Gudbranson, Berni and Gavrikov... all defensive d-men so forwards did not often support from defense.

He played only 18 games in the next season, 14 after concussion. Then injury again and psychical problems. You know his situation in this season.



Btw, these stats were best in the team.

You (fans) do not know Laine. Absolutely.

You are 100% talking with yourself.
You are talking to the guy who find Caufield too slow to be on the first line......

Doesn't matter where you look, Laine hasn't fit in one system thus far since he's 18 years old. It's him, not others. and coaches see it, every single time.

And now, making comments about St-Louis in the press. This isn't going to last....

 

[Hins77]

13 goals on 29 goals, this is a pace of 36 goals in 82 games. I mean. A Patrick Laine on the right price, I would sign him any time. He just need to be paid like a complimentary piece instead of the line driver at 8,7. Less than 7 millions and I am fine with it. He is a superstar sniper. at the end of the game, we need goal.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

13 goals on 29 goals, this is a pace of 36 goals in 82 games. I mean. A Patrick Laine on the right price, I would sign him any time. He just need to be paid like a complimentary piece instead of the line driver at 8,7. Less than 7 millions and I am fine with it. He is a superstar sniper. at the end of the game, we need goal.

...probably because his absolute horshyte floating cost us 2 or 3 at 5-on-5...unless he "finds" his game again, trade him at next year's Deadline or let him walk after next Season...

 

[ewfwgfwahbger]

Bro just imagine being a sniper trying to play in hockey Québec. RIP. 90% don't understand what Laine is doing when he's coasting.

 

[26Mats]

13 goals on 29 goals, this is a pace of 36 goals in 82 games. I mean. A Patrick Laine on the right price, I would sign him any time. He just need to be paid like a complimentary piece instead of the line driver at 8,7. Less than 7 millions and I am fine with it. He is a superstar sniper. at the end of the game, we need goal.

He's playing bad and he's on pace for 36 goals.

having said that, Mike Hoffman was let go by the Panthers after scoring. 29 in 69, and we found out why.

Laine can't be a liability in other areas of the ice, even at a 7M cap hit.

Having said that, I think he can be coached into being better all around. And I'd like to see if he can be a part of a good two way line with either Suzuki or Demidov. We'll see. He has to score and also not be a defensive liability/offensive-play-killing-turnover machine.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Bro just imagine being a sniper trying to play in hockey Québec. RIP. 90% don't understand what Laine is doing when he's coasting.

...no, everyone understands what he's doing when he's coasting...he's coasting...

 

[ReHabs]

He's playing bad and he's on pace for 36 goals.

having said that, Mike Hoffman was let go by the Panthers after scoring. 29 in 69, and we found out why.

Laine can't be a liability in other areas of the ice, even at a 7M cap hit.

Having said that, I think he can be coached into being better all around. And I'd like to see if he can be a part of a good two way line with either Suzuki or Demidov. We'll see. He has to score and also not be a defensive liability/offensive-play-killing-turnover machine.

I really think it’s the injury+ poor fitness.

Otherwise, yeah he’s a liability and a bit of a brittle one to boot. No use keeping a forward version of MAB esp if we plan to have sufficient talent in competition for a PP1 spot.

We’ll see how he does as the season goes on but as a big time fan of this trade I readily admit he’s far more broken than I expected -- but this is largely a factor due to his injury at the start of the season.

 

[VT]

You are 100% talking with yourself.
You are talking to the guy who find Caufield too slow to be on the first line......

Doesn't matter where you look, Laine hasn't fit in one system thus far since he's 18 years old. It's him, not others. and coaches see it, every single time.

And now, making comments about St-Louis in the press. This isn't going to last....

L - Logic

Btw I only want to correct my mistake, nothing more. He was faster than Caufield, had speed like Rantanen or Aho (about, MR - 36,87 SA 36,41 PL - 36,31) and was faster than Matthews (36,13), Marner (35,58) or Barkov (36,01) etc. With a season full of injuries.

 

[VT]

D

 

[BLONG7]

It's not suspect, it's non-existent and if it doesn't improve he also cannot play in the bottom 6 because he doesn't bring anything but pp goals. How much does a powerplay specialist cost in the NHL?

That always depends on the GM...and as a group as we have seen for years now, there is always a donkey out there somewhere who will overpay. It just happens...

 

[SOLR]

L - Logic

Btw I only want to correct my mistake, nothing more. He was faster than Caufield, had speed like Rantanen or Aho (about, MR - 36,87 SA 36,41 PL - 36,31) and was faster than Matthews (36,13), Marner (35,58) or Barkov (36,01) etc. With a season full of injuries.

L - Logic, you mean thinking that a cherry picked stat is an indication of speed?
He plays slow. His decision making is slow (that's how he got the last injury...).
How he moves on a straight line once every 10 games isn't speed. It's a very small facet of game speed.

Speed is the average distance skated in meters per shift over a large sample of game.
Speed is the reaction time between 2 decision points.
etc.

When we say a player is fast, that's the things the eye test is recording.

 

[Scriptor]

Laine at a cheap price to be a PP specialist and be hidden at 5 on 5 the rest of the time?

 

[VT]

L - Logic, you mean thinking that a cherry picked stat is an indication of speed?
He plays slow. His decision making is slow (that's how he got the last injury...).
How he moves on a straight line once every 10 games isn't speed. It's a very small facet of game speed.

Speed is the average distance skated in meters per shift over a large sample of game.
Speed is the reaction time between 2 decision points.
etc.

When we say a player is fast, that's the things the eye test is recording.

I wrote about speed not decision making and compare him with Caufield. You reacted on it.
Interesting, coaches, players said he has very good making decision, hockey IQ. Look at internet.

L - Logic, I mean:

• minimum Columbus did not want to trade him and did his teammates better, his style was good for us (when he was health). If you want to compare CBJ with him and now, you would have to compare coaches, his style and defense too. Evason is a TOP coach, Larsen and Vincent not yet. Thanks to his system Werenski is playing great, Provorov has improved his play. Plus we have normal centers. So, if you're saying he didn't fit somewhere, you need to verify that first. And certainly not with the fans.
• MSL said about his play now, when he even has his shot worse. So what to talk about skating and I don't mean only fast. Also every coach knows physiology, how long it takes for a player to return to full shape.

These are two basic things, overall stats (not just points) and coaches knowledge of physiology. You didn't consider either.

I'm not denying that he's now playing horribly in 5v5, EC and that's why he didn't play in 4v4 in the last game (judging by ES time and your player's PIM). But there's a reason for that, which has to do with physiology. If we compare how he played healthy in CBJ and play at your place, it's an abysmal difference.

P.S. I know you will not agree with me and you'll write to me for the reasons I already know.

 

[SOLR]

I wrote about speed not decision making and compare him with Caufield. You reacted on it.
Interesting, coaches, players said he has very good making decision, hockey IQ. Look at internet.

L - Logic, I mean:

• minimum Columbus did not want to trade him and did his teammates better, his style was good for us (when he was health). If you want to compare CBJ with him and now, you would have to compare coaches, his style and defense too. Evason is a TOP coach, Larsen and Vincent not yet. Thanks to his system Werenski is playing great, Provorov has improved his play. Plus we have normal centers. So, if you're saying he didn't fit somewhere, you need to verify that first. And certainly not with the fans.
• MSL said about his play now, when he even has his shot worse. So what to talk about skating and I don't mean only fast. Also every coach knows physiology, how long it takes for a player to return to full shape.

These are two basic things, overall stats (not just points) and coaches knowledge of physiology. You didn't consider either.

I'm not denying that he's now playing horribly in 5v5, EC and that's why he didn't play in 4v4 in the last game (judging by ES time and your player's PIM). But there's a reason for that, which has to do with physiology. If we compare how he played healthy in CBJ and play at your place, it's an abysmal difference.

P.S. I know you will not agree with me and you'll write to me for the reasons I already know.

If I'm a caricature of myself sure.

Not saying he didn't fit in the sense that he doesn't bring value. I'm saying he's not fitting in the sense that he can't sustain value. Ie. he tends to be his own worse enemy.

I know he's not in top shape and that explains some things right now. But gotta admit that while not a real problem his hockey IQ isn't his strength in relative terms. Re worse enemy = himself when he's down on himself, his hockey IQ goes from good to awful. The moods of the Internet is not a source, come on now.

 

[VT]

If I'm a caricature of myself sure.

Not saying he didn't fit in the sense that he doesn't bring value. I'm saying he's not fitting in the sense that he can't sustain value. Ie. he tends to be his own worse enemy.

I know he's not in top shape and that explains some things right now. But gotta admit that while not a real problem his hockey IQ isn't his strength in relative terms. Re worse enemy = himself when he's down on himself, his hockey IQ goes from good to awful. The moods of the Internet is not a source, come on now.

Well, in that case, I got it wrong, since some fans are saying what I wrote about. Sorry.

From what I've read, many pundits and players alike are praising his hockey IQ.

 

[SOLR]

Well, in that case, I got it wrong, since some fans are saying what I wrote about. Sorry.

From what I've read, many pundits and players alike are praising his hockey IQ.

You need a good hockey IQ to score 40 goals. A lot of these comments are time-bound.
i.e I'm sure I can find 80 games of Laine where he was very sharp / even elite in IQ, then after any of these games express these ideas on the web.

But it's also true that he didn't get these results consistently and with his history, we also know that he's had a good bunch of games where he was probably just "ok" or even "bad" some nights. I can find a good amount of comments going the other way.

All that to say, the big picture isn't often accurately represented by an output of time-bound comments, with the right amount of discernment to give a fair holistic evaluation.

 

[VT]

You need a good hockey IQ to score 40 goals. A lot of these comments are time-bound.
i.e I'm sure I can find 80 games of Laine where he was very sharp / even elite in IQ, then after any of these games express these ideas on the web.

But it's also true that he didn't get these results consistently and with his history, we also know that he's had a good bunch of games where he was probably just "ok" or even "bad" some nights. I can find a good amount of comments going the other way.

All that to say, the big picture isn't often accurately represented by an output of time-bound comments, with the right amount of discernment to give a fair holistic evaluation.

For him, it comes down to injuries. And in Columbus we were effectively playing 3 on offense, due to injuries there wasn't ideal support for the defensemen as they were left defensively only, especially in the 2022/23 season. I don't say about 2023/24 season because he played, only 18 games.