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Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

HabsWhiteKnightLOL said:
you are crazy if you think Dvorak is the solution
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No one ever thought he would have such chemistry with Jenner and even Olivier when they played two seasons together. Besides, Dvorak wins faceoffs, which can't be said for Dach and Newhook. So he doesn't have to forecheck as much. Other than that he has a pretty good hockey IQ.

While it's possible to do the Laine - Dvorak - Gallagher line, it would create similar the Nyquist - Jenner - Laine line and move speedy Anderson to speedy Dach and Newhook.

But either way Laine can't stay with Dach and Newhook, if you want goals from him he can't forcheck the whole play. And I doubt Dach and Newhook will have good FO overnight.

Destroying the first line just for Laine would be stupid.
 
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The term "injury-prone" is thrown around a lot here. Tell me, who wouldn't have been injured in that Pare tackle? Or in Andersson's tackle directly to the head or Lagersson's leg sweep? Most of Laine's injuries are bad coincidences.

Another thing you see is "he doesn't look motivated at all". Every third person here probably has a PhD in psychology and can tell you straight from the TV that a player has clear commitment problems.

Many people here are defending Dach and Newhook, but if you even bothered to watch the previous game properly, you would see that the second line didn't win many FO's from a start. Also Dach and Newhook lost the puck in the corner all the time. Laine didn't play that well too, but I don't think he was the main problem in that line.

Yes, Newhook has speed and drive, but that's it. Laine has created more chances for Newhook than the other way around.

I would try for few periods

Slaf - Nick - Laine
Newhook - Dack - Cole
 
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BehindTheTimes said:
These boards are Hilarious at times. For Kirby Dach it’s too soon to judge after coming back from injury, he needs time etc. This is the prudent approach, he’s got 10 goals in 50 games and fans are singing his praises lately.

Situation for Laine isn’t that much different as far as playing time and being in game shape goes. No such approach for Patrik though, what you see is what you get. 12 goals in 22 games, not too shabby.

Not a core piece, worst player on his line etc even though he has outproduced them both in quarter of the time. Pretty remarkable some of the takes on here. When he does finally start rounding into form like Dach has started to these takes will look even dumber than they do now.

There were posters here who didn’t want Laine for free even if Columbus retained 100% of his salary. I know, because I was arguing against those types of nonsense posts. I’m not going to do someone else’s work and go dig them up, but they were here. Plenty of the “if he can’t survive his mental issues in Columbus then he won’t stand a chance here” types of posts too. No one had a clue what was bothering him, but it didn’t stop them from labelling him. His father died, I remember when my mother died, I was not the same mentally for quite awhile. Completely normal, this says nothing negative about his character.
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Both Dach and Laine need time, but let's not pretend everone has been super patient with one guy and not the other. Both have/had lots of people being impatient with them. I'd even go as far to say Dach had more people being impatient but both have had defenders and critics.
 
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I'm reading the book Behind the Bench where Craig Custance interviewed coaches. One chapter is on Ron Wilson around the time he coached Kessel on both the Leafs and in the Olympics. Wilson had issues with Kessel, but he was adamant that Kessel should play on the 3rd line at the Olympics. After the book was published, Kessel went on to win the cup playing on the 3rd line for the Pens.

I couldn't help but think maybe at 5 v 5 that's where Laine ends up. He's a player that likes to have the puck on his stick, something I don't think works well with Dach, and I can't see working well with Demidov either. So maybe he shifts down to the 3rd line where he can be the guy who holds onto the puck for that line, and also plays 1st PP.
 
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sampollock said:
ya ok

so take away the big goals he scored , and then what?
worst player, give me a break
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which big goals he scored at 5v5?? The guy is a mess when he have the puck on his stick and not on the pp. Skate like Savard, energy lvl of Dvorak and handle the puck like Pezzetta and give it tho the opponent like if it was free candy. Thank god for his shoot. I don't want to see this guy anywhere near ur 2 best players and they probably don't want it either.
 
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badfish said:
I'm reading the book Behind the Bench where Craig Custance interviewed coaches. One chapter is on Ron Wilson around the time he coached Kessel on both the Leafs and in the Olympics. Wilson had issues with Kessel, but he was adamant that Kessel should play on the 3rd line at the Olympics. After the book was published, Kessel went on to win the cup playing on the 3rd line for the Pens.

I couldn't help but think maybe at 5 v 5 that's where Laine ends up. He's a player that likes to have the puck on his stick, something I don't think works well with Dach, and I can't see working well with Demidov either. So maybe he shifts down to the 3rd line where he can be the guy who holds onto the puck for that line, and also plays 1st PP.
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The main benefit of this type of thing is it makes the matchup game very hard. When you have star players on all 3 lines somebody is going to be facing weaker D which they can exploit.

But keep in mind the 3 lines play mostly equivalent 5on5 minutes in this type of deployment.
 
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badfish said:
I'm reading the book Behind the Bench where Craig Custance interviewed coaches. One chapter is on Ron Wilson around the time he coached Kessel on both the Leafs and in the Olympics. Wilson had issues with Kessel, but he was adamant that Kessel should play on the 3rd line at the Olympics. After the book was published, Kessel went on to win the cup playing on the 3rd line for the Pens.

I couldn't help but think maybe at 5 v 5 that's where Laine ends up. He's a player that likes to have the puck on his stick, something I don't think works well with Dach, and I can't see working well with Demidov either. So maybe he shifts down to the 3rd line where he can be the guy who holds onto the puck for that line, and also plays 1st PP.
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So true

bud12 said:
which big goals he scored at 5v5?? The guy is a mess when he have the puck on his stick and not on the pp. Skate like Savard, energy lvl of Dvorak and handle the puck like Pezzetta and give it tho the opponent like if it was free candy. Thank god for his shoot. I don't want to see this guy anywhere near ur 2 best players and they probably don't want it either.
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ok your thoughts not mine

he is not my top 2 players.. guy was off a year.
I would like to see if you were off your job for a year, has sadly mental health issues and you go back to work and your fellow workmates or boss just writes you off. I bet you would not crawl in shell and quit... but yet sports is different? sheesh
 
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badfish said:
I'm reading the book Behind the Bench where Craig Custance interviewed coaches. One chapter is on Ron Wilson around the time he coached Kessel on both the Leafs and in the Olympics. Wilson had issues with Kessel, but he was adamant that Kessel should play on the 3rd line at the Olympics. After the book was published, Kessel went on to win the cup playing on the 3rd line for the Pens.

I couldn't help but think maybe at 5 v 5 that's where Laine ends up. He's a player that likes to have the puck on his stick, something I don't think works well with Dach, and I can't see working well with Demidov either. So maybe he shifts down to the 3rd line where he can be the guy who holds onto the puck for that line, and also plays 1st PP.
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I really like the idea of having constant pace in our top six I actually don't think you can get away with not having it in today's NHL. I'm looking forward to the time when we can start tinkering with certain players.
Laine for Heineman would be a super interesting move with Heineman injecting that much more speed on Dach's line and Evans/Armia being a defensive foil for Laine. As much as I keep saying Suzuki has to play with pace Kirby Dach has to play with pace to get the best out of both of those players.
 
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DAChampion said:
Laine plays with Dach and Newhook.

I wonder if Roy or Heinemen could do better than Newhook.
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Newhook is a mistake of Hughes. He got owned by Sakic big time, no doubt. Joe must be still laughting at this one. But I like few things of Newhook like his speed, his energy and his constant effort (that brings nothing or very little). I think Habs have to re-think the whole team. They have to think seriously how to buid a second line and not just wait for Demidov like he will solve everyting. Laine sucks at 5v5. I can agree he lost his father, he's coming from an injury but I don't think those excuses are enough. I saw his play, I watched games focusing only on him and disliked what I saw.

I would switch Newhook and Heineman any day. Heineman is a player I like a lot. I hate how Dvorak plays except on the face-offs. He's slow, late on forecheck, late on backcheck, fast players skate around him like he was an orange cone. How many goals opposite teams scored when he is on the ice? Too many. He have about no skills to score or make offensive plays. He have the strick minimum skills to pay in nhl, he doesn't suck completely but Habs needs much better than him. Evans is twice better (and useful) than Dvorak.

And back to the topic, I read many posts about how we can use Laine and find line combos and it's so hard and seems like impossible. Every line combo I find something that tells me no that will not work. Unless Laine improves a lot and shows a much improved play at 5 vs 5, I don't beleive on that player. It's fun to see him score with his elite shot on PP but other teams adapted their coverage since a week or two.
 
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At least with Dach you see some intrigue and upside. Newhook for most part leaves you thinking maybe he'll be a decent 3rd liner someday... Paul Byron.
 
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Catanddogguitarrr said:
I know what you mean but that's not a valuable argument. The goal is not dump Laine and replace with Anderson or Gally, the goal is find an appropriate winger to fit with Dach and Demidov. Or find a true #2 center and Dach becomes the winger. But keeping Laine like if there wasn't any other solution with the vast number of players in the league who could be traded or signed ufa? No, I hope Hughes can do better than that.

Gally and Anderson are there because of long term contracts nobody wants in a trade. Let's not repeat the same mistake with Laine. He have a bullet shot on PP and that's all. The rest of his play is almost mediocre and he could become even worse than that if he loses confidence and as always the sword of damocles: injury prone.

Habs should concentrate on finding complete players who helps the entire line. Teams don't go far with incomplete players with major defensive flaws.
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We’ll get an entire season of evaluating how well the top six works with both a Demidov and Laine in the lineup, giving us many options in line combos. My guess is that they will exceed my expectations.

If Demidov hits the ground running (or ice skating 🧐) and Laine can start the season healthy with a good summer camp behind him, we should be seeing some fun hockey right out of the gate!
 
Farmboy Patty said:
We’ll get an entire season of evaluating how well the top six works with both a Demidov and Laine in the lineup, giving us many options in line combos. My guess is that they will exceed my expectations.

If Demidov hits the ground running (or ice skating 🧐) and Laine can start the season healthy with a good summer camp behind him, we should be seeing some fun hockey right out of the gate!
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With Dach winning 38% of the face-offs? And Laine's strange skating and giving the puck to opponents like a generous Santa Klaus? Demidov will have to do everything. And will be checked closely and maybe get injured.
 
VT said:
No one ever thought he would have such chemistry with Jenner and even Olivier when they played two seasons together. Besides, Dvorak wins faceoffs, which can't be said for Dach and Newhook. So he doesn't have to forecheck as much. Other than that he has a pretty good hockey IQ.

While it's possible to do the Laine - Dvorak - Gallagher line, it would create similar the Nyquist - Jenner - Laine line and move speedy Anderson to speedy Dach and Newhook.

But either way Laine can't stay with Dach and Newhook, if you want goals from him he can't forcheck the whole play. And I doubt Dach and Newhook will have good FO overnight.

Destroying the first line just for Laine would be stupid.
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I agree and like this take, all of it, 100 %.
 
badfish said:
I'm reading the book Behind the Bench where Craig Custance interviewed coaches. One chapter is on Ron Wilson around the time he coached Kessel on both the Leafs and in the Olympics. Wilson had issues with Kessel, but he was adamant that Kessel should play on the 3rd line at the Olympics. After the book was published, Kessel went on to win the cup playing on the 3rd line for the Pens.

I couldn't help but think maybe at 5 v 5 that's where Laine ends up. He's a player that likes to have the puck on his stick, something I don't think works well with Dach, and I can't see working well with Demidov either. So maybe he shifts down to the 3rd line where he can be the guy who holds onto the puck for that line, and also plays 1st PP.
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Similar thoughts and ideas on this poster as well. Im really digging it. We avoid breaking up 1st line but can test on 3rd line if we can find a line that can be dynamite with Laine. We have seen it happen before with Laine, that he just gels with some guys and then its magic. In the same way his game just doesnt work at all even with great players if the line doesnt work as a whole.

And before someone goes like "why do we need to babysit Laine like this, isnt he supposed to be a star that can make any line work?". The answer is "no, he is not such player". But it would be stupid to not try to optimize his usage.

To have 2 scoring lines is ok. To have 3 scoring lines is amazing.
 
Catanddogguitarrr said:
With Dach winning 38% of the face-offs? And Laine's strange skating and giving the puck to opponents like a generous Santa Klaus? Demidov will have to do everything. And will be checked closely and maybe get injured.
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You would be completely right if both Laine and Dach don’t raise their level closer to their normal. I’m guessing that they will be different players in a good way, and Demidov will land in a good spot when the season starts. I guess that preseason games will give us a hint.
 
Catanddogguitarrr said:
Newhook is a mistake of Hughes. He got owned by Sakic big time, no doubt. Joe must be still laughting at this one.
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Wrong way to look at this. Newhook went mid first round and had good potential when we got him. Those kinds of trades are worth the risk. It paid off with Dach for example.

As for Newhook, the play is there. He's got some skill and he's got great speed. Not much size and not much grit but the man can skate. Problem is that he just hasn't been able to finish. Some of that is due to his linemates being so bad to start the year but it can't all be blamed on them. I thought he'd be better than he's been. Some of it is him being snakebit but he should have more finish no matter what. Maybe he stays with us on the 3rd line and picks up his game but I wouldn't be surprised if he's not here for the long haul.

No issue with those kinds of trades. They won't always work out but it's the type of aggressive move you want to see when rebuilding. 20/20 hindsight, we probably don't make the trade. It's not looking great but it's not like Sakic was sitting back thinking he'd ripped us off.
 
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Lafleurs Guy said:
Wrong way to look at this. Newhook went mid first round and had good potential when we got him. Those kinds of trades are worth the risk. It paid off with Dach for example.

As for Newhook, the play is there. He's got some skill and he's got great speed. Not much size and not much grit but the man can skate. Problem is that he just hasn't been able to finish. Some of that is due to his linemates being so bad to start the year but it can't all be blamed on them. I thought he'd be better than he's been. Some of it is him being snakebit but he should have more finish no matter what. Maybe he stays with us on the 3rd line and picks up his game but I wouldn't be surprised if he's not here for the long haul.

No issue with those kinds of trades. They won't always work out but it's the type of aggressive move you want to see when rebuilding. 20/20 hindsight, we probably don't make the trade. It's not looking great but it's not like Sakic was sitting back thinking he'd ripped us off.
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I could see a guy like Newhook become a goal scoring machine on the same line with McDavid. He fits that type of mold well.
 
LaineBOOM said:
I could see a guy like Newhook become a goal scoring machine on the same line with McDavid. He fits that type of mold well.
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Complimentary player with speed. Will never carry a line. This year was brutal because Dach - and most of the team - got off to such a rough start. He makes a lot of nice passes that somehow aren't converted. Takes shots that could go in but don't... :laugh: Every night he gets a Chris Higgins hat trick. :laugh:

Yeah, he needs linemates who can finish consistently. He needs others to carry the play more. I think he's probably going to get traded away. We'll see though, he went on a tear last year and that could happen again.
 
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