I understand but look at time the return to shape that Summanen mentions. For example Dach, he gradually found his game after 30 games. In doing so, he had a normal preseason and didn't get injured in the preseason games. Also, a lot depends on muscle type, which is what Summanen is talking about.
Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition
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We need playoffs to answer that. The post season exposes what you are lacking. That line may kill in the season but lack something in the playoffs. Look at the Leafs.
Am I the only one who isn't that sold on Patrik Laine? Yes I know he has one of the best shots in the league and I know his knee injury set him back a bit but his total game isn't as good as I thought it would be. I am sure I will get a bunch of push back.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
He's not a perfect winger but his shot is elite and it's a nice weapon to have. He tends to take chances and tries to be a dangler at times which gets him in trouble. What he has to learn (which I think he is) is to know when to take those chances in the offensive zone with players back so it doesn't create odd man rushes. We have the best coach in the NHL for this... won't get obsessive with getting on his back aggressively but will work with him to make better decisions at the right time.
Kennerback
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- Jun 2, 2021
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I’m sold on Patrik Laine because of his PP goals. Otherwise I agree with everything else in your post.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Very fair. I think we are about to learn more context for the rest of the season. More pressure and higher level of competition. Games will get more physical and tighter with everyone in mid season form and chasing the playoffs. Even if we don't make the playoffs, I think we are going to learn more context into how ready this roster is and what our true holes are.
Systems will be tested and the Habs have to learn when to play simple and when to play the puck possession game. Our bottom 6 is good on the forecheck (without the puck) but our top 6 is not that great at the forecheck. They are better when the puck is on their stick.
The other layer is how our D core handles aggressive forecheck. I noticed that both the Wings and Devils were harder on us in our own end and we chipped the puck out more than we skated it out.
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- Jan 18, 2022
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I think the fact Laine's coming back from a very complicated past few years (athletically he had been checked out and contemplating retirement, multiple injuries, surgery rehab probably not optimal, clinical depression, etc.) and still managed to be near-PPG after yet another recent injury on his weak knee speaks to his upside.
The likes of Slafkovsky and Dach have every excuse in the world dredged up in their defence when they have 28 in 46 (50pt season pace) and 19 in 49 (31pt season pace), respectively, while Laine with a more recent injury and a more horrific past few years has 18 in 21 (70pt season pace) speaks to Laine being simply a higher calibre and class of player.
Absolutely why this team even just hanging in is good for development. Getting deeper into the season and us sniffing a playoff spot gives hope to our players and makes them have to dig deeper in order to hang in.
As to the forecheck I always love an aggressive game plan and hopefully the top 6 get more that way. Suzuki and Dach be good on the forecheck. Guessing Demi as well.
As for the D, earlier in the year they seemed to get boxed in easily but that has changed. And it's a sign of good things that they know what to do when facing a stronger forecheck , for one it means the coaches are tuned in. Hopefully they can figure out how to counterattack better and punish teams who try that aggressive forecheck. The wingers need to be back , available and open and ready to tear up ice.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
The key to the forecheck on the Suzuki line is Slaf. I think he helped on the Suzuki goal.
The key to the forecheck on the Dach line is Dach. Laine is not terrible at it so he can help there. Newhook is not that great at creating turnovers IMO. Demidov? Not sure how aggressive he will be in forcing turnover areas.
With games that are tight and the team we are playing is aggressive on their forecheck, we should be playing Carrier/Guhle and Xhekaj/Savard more in our D zone faceoffs. Not like Hutson/Matheson can take any D zone Faceoffs but they should be more on the offensive zone or neutral zone faceoffs IMO.
MSL is not dumb. He's noticed this as well so lets see if he makes any changes. For now, he will stick with what he has that has gotten us to this point.
bsl
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Sorry off topic but what’s with the jump to new at top of page that doesn’t work. Please bring back previous and next buttons at top of page!
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
SlafySZN
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- May 21, 2022
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Slaf and Dach has been ripped to pieces since the start of the season, it’s less happening since they’ve been playing better. Why act as if they weren’t?
You had no problem with it but people can’t discuss about Laine’s 5v5 play or his skating?
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bsl
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Yeah 10 mill. Really. For a guy who has missed tons of games the last few years. No chance.
JianYang
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- Sep 29, 2017
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Nobody should be sold yet. Those calls to extend him during his early success were laughable but predictable.
If it wasn't for his shot being a stationary weapon, he would not have looked much different than dach earlier this year.
But Laine should be able to move better as he gets more games under his belt. He has missed a ton of time, and not just this year or last year.
His durability is a huge question mark, and even assuming that he gets his stride back, you have to wonder if it's worth the big ticket cap allocation if he can't suit up regularly, whether that is physical or mental related.
The good news is that the habs have time to wait and see, as he does not need a contract until the end of next year. Any decision one way or the other should not be made right now.
If a player doesn't have ideal skating, it affects his play, not to mention the loss of self-confidence. That's why the criticism of Dach was pretty strange (other than stupid decisions like passing the puck behind him and then losing it).
Right now, I think Laine should be playing with Evans and Armia. It's understandable that he's not doing well after all the injuries, that's the kind of problems any player would have . And those players would help him more than Dach and Newhook.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
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There's a reason why Columbus paid to get rid of him, he's a heavily flawed player. Still, he looks way better than Dach, and they both missed a ton of hockey. Over a 40 goal pace and near PPG after so much time lost is more than fine. His flaws make him a second liner.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
I am in the camp that no extension talks start until mid-way through next season and we see where he is after all the rust is gone. I'd still think he's going to need to give us a discount, too, to stay.
If he's paid around 7m, he's an absolute gem to have on a second line that will probably feature Demidov as soon as next year. Laine's value might sky rocket when Demidov is finding him with passes that only he can make.
Benstheman
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Yeah it will be interesting to see how it goes. Like I said many times, he and Dach are two players we have still 1 year and half to evaluate and clear the doubts (or not) Laine needs to be better 5 vs 5 and Dach needs to be more consistent. On top of that, the most important part is : can they stay healthy for that period of time. HuGo will take all this time they have in their hands to decide what to do with them long term. I don't see neither being extended this next summer.
If this is Patrik Laine in game shape he's not worth his current salary. I still see a talented player but his pace is not acceptable. Like Dach we can only wait to see if he can find another gear. We are in a better "deck chair" scenario with him in the lineup so there is that but as far as the PP and those one timers go the league has already caught on.
The current PP reminds me of the ones where we tried to feed Weber in that area and failed miserably. We have fallen to 21st in the league from mid pack and are now heading below 20% if we don't make adjustments. Laine has to be part of the solution either as a decoy or moving around to create confusion. I always preferred when Weber and Subban were taking their shots from the middle or high slot.
- Jan 18, 2022
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I'm not sure you read my comment because I directly respond to your first question in that very comment you've quoted. Slaf and Dach were ripped because they didn't produce; Laine is less criticised because he manages to produce. It is because Laine is a higher calibre player and talent. We follow sports, it's a results-based thing.
And I've never placed any limits on any discussion about any player. Feel free to discuss Laine's 5v5 play and skating, what the hell do I have to do with it?
The least you could do is actually read the post before you fire off a reply.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
It just needs more looks.. if they are going to key the box over to Laine, then we need Slaf, Suzuki or Caufield to slip into the bumper spot, so Laine needs to adjust and bump it down to the goal line and have someone opening up in the bumper spot and get that one-timer.
Slaf also needs to bounce out for the left shot one-timer. He also needs to take the puck to the net whenever there's an open space, he's too perimeter with the puck and will always pass.
Benstheman
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LaineBOOM
Registered User
Im gonna say how I see it:
- if you sign Laine long-term for big money and he runs into his old issues (big injuries, mental health problems due to a life crisis) again, it will mean we are not winning the cup during his contract.
- if he stays healthy we will have decent chances for a cup during his contract.
- if we dont sign Laine (and use the money on someone else), we will have unknown chances for a cup (depends hugely on who we sign instead of Laine) during the next 6-7 years.
So to me the question to ask is:
- Who would (could) we sign instead of Laine for approx the same money?
After one has some clarity on the answer it will be easier to assess if signing Laine is worth the risk.
- if you sign Laine long-term for big money and he runs into his old issues (big injuries, mental health problems due to a life crisis) again, it will mean we are not winning the cup during his contract.
- if he stays healthy we will have decent chances for a cup during his contract.
- if we dont sign Laine (and use the money on someone else), we will have unknown chances for a cup (depends hugely on who we sign instead of Laine) during the next 6-7 years.
So to me the question to ask is:
- Who would (could) we sign instead of Laine for approx the same money?
After one has some clarity on the answer it will be easier to assess if signing Laine is worth the risk.
habbubba
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- Jan 19, 2024
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Not anymore but I suspect you are playing devils advocate right. Mere observation should tell you all you need to know.
