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Next season's top 6 hopefully.
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Next season's top 6 hopefully.
Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition
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Kennerback
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2021
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Want crazy data? Patrik Laine, back from lower body injury, apparently slow moving and has not played much. Top speed this season: 21:45. Vs only anointed generational player pre-draft since McDavid, Connor Bedard: top speed this season: 21:44. 
Hacketts
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- Jul 12, 2018
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Want crazy data? Patrik Laine, back from lower body injury, apparently slow moving and has not played much. Top speed this season: 21:45. Vs only anointed generational player pre-draft since McDavid, Connor Bedard: top speed this season: 21:44.
No More Subban
GHG
- Apr 28, 2010
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I'm good with Laine making more than Suzuki. He's just special. I've seen enough. It's like having an Ovechkin. We'll win more games with a dangerous powerplay.
So Connor Bedard is slower than Laine with knee injury, that's interesting. But If I got the NHL Edge stats right, that speed is below league average for forwards, which is 22.07 mph. The top speed for McDavid is 23.97, so more than 2 mph higher or about 10% higher.Want crazy data? Patrik Laine, back from lower body injury, apparently slow moving and has not played much. Top speed this season: 21:45. Vs only anointed generational player pre-draft since McDavid, Connor Bedard: top speed this season: 21:44.
What is funny is that Laine is approaching league average on Shots on Goal (49 vs. 55.7) while having played only 18 games, just over 1/3 of the total for most of the skaters. And of course he is already on 77 percentile on goals (12 vs. average 7).
- Jan 18, 2022
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Yes I agree that Jenner was much better than Kirby Dash is right now. Dash has a good argument for being the absolute worst center that Laine has played with. In the 22 games since Laine returned (Laine only played 18 of them) Dash has just 1 assist, that's right 1 assist. And Laine still leads all Canadiens players in goals after his return: NHL Stats
The only good center that Laine has played with was Scheifele back in Winnipeg. But because Scheifele and Wheeler didn't want to do all the heavy lifting in order to keep Laine scoring, they went to Maurice and started complaining. And then Laine was stuck with a declining Bryan Little and the rest is history...
The Canadiens are playing the Lighting tonight. This would be a good time to reward Laine after the overtime goal last game by putting him on the first line with Suzuki. That way they could keep him motivated and hopefully keep him scoring. Laine has only scored 2 goals against Tampa in 18 career games so he needs all the help he can get against them.
Your opinion doesn't count. You're just pissed off because Laine took your spot on the powerplay...
They should just dump Newhook away and try for example Beck in that position. Dach & Laine are starting to connect but Newhook disconnects it at this moment.
Lafleurs Guy
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He’d have to show more than what he’s doing now to warrant that kind of money. The PP goals are there but that’s all he does.
Let’s see how he plays for the rest of the season. He’s recovering from a nasty injury and that’s probably a big factor. But outside the PP right now, he doesn’t offer a whole lot. Certainly not enough for ten mil.
Lafleurs Guy
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Not a complaint. Goals are the most valuable thing a player can contribute. He’s been wildly successful in that area - PP goals or not. But that’s all he really offers at the moment. Once we get into 5 on 5 he’s been invisible. And that’s understandable considering the injury he’s recovering from.
My biggest worry with this guy before we signed him were the injuries. Particularly the shoulder one. That’s clearly not been a problem. His shot is best in league. Now we have to see how he recovers from his most recent one. I suspect it’s hindering him a fair bit.
Lafleurs Guy
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Roy was about to be called up and he got hurt. That’s a shame because I’ve wanted to see what he could do all year. As for Newhook, he’s either destined for the third line wing or will be dealt. He’s playing better than his numbers show but at some point you have to produce. He’s got to have a better second half. If not, I can see us moving on.
Regardless, there’s little chance of him in the top six next year.
His play at 5 vs 5 isn't optimal at the moment. But saying that he’s been invisible and useless on 5 vs 5 is something. Yes, there has been "bad" games for him for sure. But he has set Newhook like ten times to prime scoring position with no success.
edit:
Give me a break, 5M guy.
Laine is 0.43 GPG and 0.81 PPG player in his career.
Suzuki signed his contract at 22-23 and he was before that 0.23 GPG and 0.68 PPG player and had played 85% games in that moment.
Caufield signed his contract at 23-24 and he was before that 0.41 GPG and 0.68 PPG and had played 50% games in that moment.
edit:
Give me a break, 5M guy.
Laine is 0.43 GPG and 0.81 PPG player in his career.
Suzuki signed his contract at 22-23 and he was before that 0.23 GPG and 0.68 PPG player and had played 85% games in that moment.
Caufield signed his contract at 23-24 and he was before that 0.41 GPG and 0.68 PPG and had played 50% games in that moment.
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Exactly this. People keep focusing on the goals, which is all well and good, but his results outside the PP are as of right now just god awful. He's by far our worst 5v5 player to the point where he is a clear negative presence on the ice, causing the team to to take less shots and allow more shots against than without him.
Calling him a "superstar" seems egregious to, since in my mind superstars are supposed to make everyone around them better, while Laine is the opposite of that. As of right now he's essentially a 3rd line PP specialist who is nearly useless outside that role. I have hope that he'll only get better from here, but if not I'd rather not commit to a long term contract with him.
I love this Hockeyviz's visualisation of Laine as it really shows perfectly what kind of a player Laine can be at his best. On the left is everything dragging him down; poor 5v5 numbers, below average passing, not a good transition player. But on the right you have one of the best shots in the NHL. A guy who despite all his flaws can score at a ridiculous rate by just shooting the puck from the same spot over and over again.
Two years left on the Newhook contract at 2.9M. He's playing 2nd line minutes on his way towards a whopping 21 points (14 goals, though, but he should have 50+ with all the gimme open net goals he fans on) and a worse than -20 +/- differential.
Not a fan of this player that creates too little not often enough and fails to convert enough chances. Defensively, he's meh, at best, if not an actual liability.
Not great on the forecheck, despite the speed.
I don't really see a role with the Habs for Newhook going forward because he isn't a prototypical bottom-6 player and does not produce enough offensively, or provide enough defensive acumen or physical play to play a top-6 role barring a slew of injuries.
2,9M better spent elsewhere and definitely not a candidate for a contract extension three years from now.
Maybe Newhook can be passed off in a package deal at some point before the end of his contract. Otherwise, he needs to carve out a role for himself in the meantime to stay relevant. Lots of speed with the puck that doesn't materialize in anything; concretely, not enough offense, dismal D and no contribution to keeping the puck in the O-zone long enough to wear out opponents.
If the Habs are fortunate enough, they could find a two-way player with offensive abilities like Bear available at their draft ranking, a player that would bring the physical, forechecking ability Newhook lacks and the converting skills to play up and down in the lineup, either as an occasional 2nd line player to change things up, or as a disturbing 3rd line player that would be difficult to play against for opponents.
Newhook would quickly become redundant, especially if Laine signs an extension with the Habs. Caufield, Slafkovsky, Laine, Demidov, Heineman, Hage and a player like Bear selected in 2025 would all likely surpass Newhook on the depth chart. With one remaining spot on the 4th line -- a role not suited for Newhook -- he would not fit in the roster.
If Hughes were to trade for a veteran C like ROR to insulate Dach's continued progression as a 2nd line C, the C-line could well become the following for the next two seasons:
Suzuki
Caufield
ROR
Beck
We could trade Evans for another first round pick and hopefully use that trade capital, along with the two mid-round first-rounders from us and CAL to move up into the top-10 and surgically add a final player to impact the lineup.
Quality over quantity where the darts should be shot at the board from one foot away instead of a mile out.
Paddyjack
Registered User
Saundies
Fly On The Wall
There's just not enough of a runway to make any decision on an extension right now. He's played the same number of games this year as he did all of last year and yes, looks slow. Made a post above regarding that but that's to be expected.
I suspect there will be no decisions made until next year (and probably not until mid next year), which I think is the right call. Demidov coming over and probably playing with Patty/Slaf moving down/something will factor in as well.
I suspect there will be no decisions made until next year (and probably not until mid next year), which I think is the right call. Demidov coming over and probably playing with Patty/Slaf moving down/something will factor in as well.
BarracudaMtl
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- Apr 15, 2018
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It's good to know that Cole Caufield is super motivated at the start of every game.
Doom Bot
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- Aug 30, 2024
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I don't want the GM that pays guys based on what they've already done, that's Bergevin. I want Hughes to pay people based on what they're likely to do over the length of the contract. I would entertain bringing Laine back but he would have to both take a dollar amount that works for the team and also would have to maintain a high level of play for all of this year and next.
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
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- Apr 29, 2018
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It's good to know that Cole Caufield is super motivated at the start of every game.
I'm listening to some before the interview and Spitting Chiclets f***ing sucks. They don't even know what's the max you can retain.
Biz and Whitney f***ing suck, but I guess when you're loud and say stupid shit people like it.
I've often seen this criticism and I don't quite get it.
I don't think Laine is slow, he's just big and when he's got the puck he slows the play down. But that's how he plays, not every player is going to skate like MacKinnon but it also doesn't mean that they're not effective.
Expecting Laine to get faster when he's never played that way is just setting yourself up for failure.
David Savard is slow, Patrik Laine is not.
I fully agree.
But still, what player has done in past is part of his resumee. You don't pay 20 goal scorer 10M only thinking that he is becoming 50 goal scorer.
If Laine's game slowly finds right track. I wouldn't be against to pay him 9M x 6 years. I think that would fit fine to rising cap.
Virtually every deal that isn't an ELC is at least partly based on what players have already done.
At his best? Look up his 5v5 stats from 2016-17, (17-18 was also good once they got Stastny) 19-20, 21-22, or 22-23 (probably the best overall hockey he has played, gets overlooked because team was really bad and he only played ~55 games.
What you are getting now is not the player he has been the past few years - for better and worse. He is scoring PP goals like we haven't seen since 17-18 really. He never did that in Columbus - only 18 PP goals in over 170 games played! He already has half of that playing like 10 games for the Habs
He was great 5v5 in Columbus 21-22 & 22-23 though, that's more like the 5v5 play you get from him at his best, and he was the one driving offense both years. He was playing at P/GP in a team that turned Gaudreau into a 70 point guy, he just couldn't stay healthy.If he could combine that level of overall 5v5 play with the kind of goal scoring mojo he has now, he'd be a superstar. But will that ever happen? So far we haven't seen it and he has been in the league for quite a few years. He's having a new beginning, people should be patient and see what kind of player this current Laine is, honestly no one probably knows at this point and you shouldn't sign him unless you specifically want to take a gamble. In fairness, he is coming off a nasty knee injury and didn't play hockey for almost a year, but none of that is a guarantee the best 5v5 hockey of his career is ahead of him. Then again, having a happy Laine who keeps blasting PP goals and is not a complete liability 5v5 would probably be a great player to have anyway, as long as the money is right.
(for the record I haven't watched any Habs games of him, only seen the highlights, so in truth I have no idea how he looks out there currently, but I have seen dozens of his games every previous season. In some clips his skating has looked more sluggish than usual. With his frame and style he always tends to look slower than he truly is, but now there really was a level of swimming in tar, hopefully that passes or it was just at the tail end of a very long shift or something... )
Saundies
Fly On The Wall
I guess slow was a bad word to use -- he doesn't have his wind. Or he's just a step behind.
He's made one on one moves on guys that probably, pre-injury, he steps around them and breaks in. But right now, he gets by with the stick and puck but his body just isn't there yet.
At least what I've seen. Not meant to criticize and I don't expect him to speed up.
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