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Player Discussion Patrik Laine: Part 2 - Healthy Living Edition

OneSharpMarble said:
Yup great shot, one of the best for sure but let's stop acting like he isn't hurting his line 5v5. Let's also agree he has been neutralized on the pp. Something has to give and he has to be better next year.
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I agree with you he need to be better next season but he should be since he will have time to train properly and he wont be playing right after a big injury.

Now we agree he has one of the most lethal shot in the NHL. But hes not a defensive wizard. Dont you think by pairing him with players that compliment him well he can be a net positive for the team?

If you play him with a great playmaker ( Demidov ) and a big 2-way center that can get in the rough area to get the puck would help Laine exploit his special talent?

Newhook has 11 assists all season, I cant think of a worst center to play with Laine. He cant make a pass to save his life.

Finding players that fit well and compliment each other strenghts is important and Laine was not put on a line where he was in position to succeed but still hes one of the big reason why we are in the playoff.

He seems to like it here and after what he went thru I wouldnt be surprise he accept a discount to sign an extension here which would be great for the team.
 
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OneSharpMarble said:
let's stop acting like he isn't hurting his line 5v5.
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You need to quantify it somehow, not just make the claim. I bet if you looked, Newhook has better stats with Laine than without him. Easy to say because the line was the worst in the league when he got in it and it's not that anymore.

He isn't hurting his line, he's making it better. Even with limited mobility. He's a far better offensive player than Newhook or Dach or Heineman or Armia etc that they have had in that line.

Defensively he's no selke candidate but can hold his own among the wingers in this team in comparison. Again, if you disagree then quantify it somehow.. Armia is noticeably better defensively, that I'll give you for sure. He's a PK specialist and a 4th liner so it's kinda expected too.

If I watched hockey like some of you do and focus on every individual puck loss or bad touch in offensive zone and complained about each one, I could have written a book about Slaf and even Suzuki yesterday but I thought they played an overall good game, there's absolutely no point in making mountains out of molehills and report on their every mistake and pretend that's all you get.


OneSharpMarble said:
Let's also agree he has been neutralized on the pp. Something has to give and he has to be better next year.
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Did you watch last night? His best chance in the game came on PP on the right side of slot. He moves around when opponents are covering him. When opponents dedicate a player to cover Laine, the rest of them have a 4 on 3 PP which is better, and SHOULD be able to convert that extra room to goals.

Like they did in the Chicago game, where Foligno was stuck on Laine and he chose not to block Hutson from moving into the slot so Hutson took that runway and then made the pass that bounced of Slafs's skate into the net and resulted in tying goal.

With all that talent around, they should be better at using that extra room that Laine's presence on the left side brings. Make the opponent pay for that choice.

They'll stop special covering him, when the rest of the PP is more dangerous than him. It's a calculation to the opponent. When allowing that 4 on 3 situation is less desirable than giving Laine room for a onetimer. So far, the opponents are choosing to block Laine, because math.

And yes he needs to be better next year, hopefully the knee gets a lot better over the off season

I thought they looked better yesterday than previous game, Laine and Demidov had some practices together. More repetition will help but they are gelling already. Newhook isn't ideal but for this season he's probably going to be the guy centering them.
 
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Team_Spirit said:
Anyone has Hutson stats split with/without Laine?

I have a theory.
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Found it thx for nothing

46 in 52 +6 with Laine
22 in 32 -10 without Laine

1000035784.jpg

1000035783.jpg
 
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Pat Riot said:
I agree with you he need to be better next season but he should be since he will have time to train properly and he wont be playing right after a big injury.

Now we agree he has one of the most lethal shot in the NHL. But hes not a defensive wizard. Dont you think by pairing him with players that compliment him well he can be a net positive for the team?

If you play him with a great playmaker ( Demidov ) and a big 2-way center that can get in the rough area to get the puck would help Laine exploit his special talent?

Newhook has 11 assists all season, I cant think of a worst center to play with Laine. He cant make a pass to save his life.

Finding players that fit well and compliment each other strenghts is important and Laine was not put on a line where he was in position to succeed but still hes one of the big reason why we are in the playoff.

He seems to like it here and after what he went thru I wouldnt be surprise he accept a discount to sign an extension here which would be great for the team.
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I'm of two minds about him, but I lean towards trying to rehabilitate him 5-on-5. He needs to train better and refine his two-way play. Perhaps that starts with better fitness and explosiveness (yes, within reach of even a mid-career player); maybe work with MSL on leg day :skeptic: . Hard to say. He has this elite shot that makes him extremely useful on the PP, and maybe he has 30+ goals in him in a full season, while also diluting the defensive coverage of the Suzuki line. And as pointed out, he seems to like it here. If he is not to greedy and his game can be tweaked into better 2-way play, I'd be inclined to re-sign him. A lot depends on MSL's impression on the malleability of his game.
 
Marioesque said:
Thanks!
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Just want to mentioned that those stats imo doesn't really gives us a clear view of the impact Laine had on Newhook cuz it doesn't say how many points Newhook had with Laine on the ice with him, for example Newhook had 1 G 4 A on the Power Play and he didn't play with Laine on the PP......same for Laine who had 19 of his 33 pts on the PP so in reality he had 14 pts in 52 Games playing with Newhook.....maybe even less cuz i don't know how much 3 on 3 Pts he had and if Newhook was on the ice with him
 
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Pat Riot said:
I agree with you he need to be better next season but he should be since he will have time to train properly and he wont be playing right after a big injury.

Now we agree he has one of the most lethal shot in the NHL. But hes not a defensive wizard. Dont you think by pairing him with players that compliment him well he can be a net positive for the team?

If you play him with a great playmaker ( Demidov ) and a big 2-way center that can get in the rough area to get the puck would help Laine exploit his special talent?

Newhook has 11 assists all season, I cant think of a worst center to play with Laine. He cant make a pass to save his life.

Finding players that fit well and compliment each other strenghts is important and Laine was not put on a line where he was in position to succeed but still hes one of the big reason why we are in the playoff.

He seems to like it here and after what he went thru I wouldnt be surprise he accept a discount to sign an extension here which would be great for the team.
Click to expand...
You can push your injury excuse to the end of the earth, if he's injured he shouldn't have been on the 2nd line or not even playing period. No he's not a defensive wizard, he isn't even a defensive piece of boiled celery. I'm not sure he even has the capability of skating backwards or even moving with any sense of urgency back into the defensive zone.

Yeah if we get 2 players that can do literally everything for him other than shoot maybe he can do something on 5v5. Can Suzuki carry this guy? Possibly but why are we hindering our best players to try and get this guy to put in any effort?

Yup the Newhook line has failed, one guy can skate and the other is in the neutral zone puffing and wheezing, then there tends to be a rookie on the other side. When the puck comes around the board people hold their breath to see if Laine can actually manage to stop the puck and make a basic pass.

He sure is a superstar, one that generates nothing, needs to be surrounded with superstars, does zero of the work and has shown this time and again but man what a great shot. Just a shame he needs to do something else.
 
This guy has tremendous skill,but does so much at a snails pace. He needs to be sped up somehow, are amphetamines banned if prescribed? or how about some strong espressos before and during the game,anything to get going,prick him a needle,I don't know,I'm scrambling but just looking to resolve the languidness.
 
DAChampion said:
Without one-legged Laine the Habs don't get into the playoffs.
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And that doesn't change if he's playing on the 4th line.

Edit: We got in by 1 point, there isn't a player on the team that anyone can remove and say we still get into the playoffs. The entire team earned this, stop giving all the credit to people you like.
 
habbubba said:
This guy has tremendous skill,but does so much at a snails pace. He needs to be sped up somehow, are amphetamines banned if prescribed? or how about some strong espressos before and during the game,anything to get going,prick him a needle,I don't know,I'm scrambling but just looking to resolve the languidness.
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That is something which I think causes the most ire against him as a player. You either think he's just ultra slow, or you can see how he is sometimes intentionally slow and then fast when needed. Of course there is a clear acceleration deficiency and some turning issues towards that knee right now, so that highlights his clunky looking style.

One play that is constant to Laine is when he receives the puck in defensive end half boards and has some room to skate up, he starts to go but then slows down and gets pinned down by the defenseman and a forward cutting off his routes to the offensive zone. But when they do this (come pin him down) he often gets the puck out of there and to a teammates stick who are going up with speed and breaking into offensive zone. Him slowing down and pulling the forward towards him allows more time for others to get into speed and ties 2 opponents to himself before the blueline. It's a smart play especially with his current mobility, knowing he might not be able to squeeze between the D man and board into the zone, rather draw the attention and let someone with speed carry it with less resistance

He just did that with Demidov last night again, which lead to Demidov getting a 1 on 1 and I think he hit the post. And if you look when Demidov hits the post, Laine is there for support but puck just doesn't come to him. So he got himself there even though he appears slow.

It looks awkward , on purpose, but it's a "high risk. high reward" play and he's an offensive player who will rather opt to that (because it creates a direct scoring chance) instead of dumping it as would be the instinct of a less goal oriented player. And people expect the dump (so does the opponent), it looks unconventional.

And it leads to turnovers too, he doesn't always get that puck out of there and loses the possession, but at that point the play is at a stand still in NZ and that is not a massive risk usually. Possession loss yes, but they don't lead to goals against much.

If he has a lane to skate to the offensive blueline, then he'll opt to deke in rather than dump. That also can cause turnovers (or highlight reel goals).
 
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I think it's a fools errand to blame MSL, Laine, Newhook, Dach, etc. The bottom line is that the Habs only have one forward worthy of the second line: Ivan Demidov. And at his level of experience, he shouldn't be the one to carry it.

How can MSL construct a second line from this roster?

Roy, Beck, Mesar didn't adequately progress this year, which is on them.

Heinemen and Kappanen did progress, but not to the level of being second liners.

Anderson and Gallagher have aged out of being effective top six forwards. Not their fault.

Newhook either lacks confidence or lacks IQ (I'm not sure), either way he's not effective.

Dach is out with an injury and was previously one of the worst forwards in the NHL.

Laine plays on one leg, he's one of the slowest Habs I've seen. And it doesn't seem like he can shoot from multiple places.

What can MSL do?
 
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DAChampion said:
I think it's a fools errand to blame MSL, Laine, Newhook, Dach, etc. The bottom line is that the Habs only have one forward worthy of the second line: Ivan Demidov. And at his level of experience, he shouldn't be the one to carry it.

How can MSL construct a second line from this roster?

Roy, Beck, Mesar didn't adequately progress this year, which is on them.

Heinemen and Kappanen did progress, but not to the level of being second liners.

Anderson and Gallagher have aged out of being effective top six forwards. Not their fault.

Newhook either lacks confidence or lacks IQ (I'm not sure), either way he's not effective.

Dach is out with an injury and was previously one of the worst forwards in the NHL.

Laine plays on one leg, he's one of the slowest Habs I've seen. And it doesn't seem like he can shoot from multiple places.

What can MSL do?
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Still hoping Laine - Newhook - Demidov shock us in the playoffs!
 
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Marioesque said:
They could if they get to play more.
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Earn it.

Newhook has been playing well over the past month. Demi is new and needs to earns the trust of his coach and teammates. Laine is, as of right now, a dog fk'er on the ice and needs to pick it up. If they can get it together as a trio, we'll be in good shape.
 
Deebs said:
Earn it.

Newhook has been playing well over the past month. Demi is new and needs to earns the trust of his coach and teammates. Laine is, as of right now, a dog fk'er on the ice and needs to pick it up. If they can get it together as a trio, we'll be in good shape.
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They played well yesterday and got benched for most of 3rd period after Demidov turned it over in a bad spot (I guess that's what MSL had an issue with?) . While the 3rd line took the goals against but "earned it".

Earn how?
 
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