Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (CBJ, Laine agree to seek trade)

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

I could see Vegas wanting Laine, their wingers look like shit. But they don't have cap space. They'd have to send a nearly equivalent amount of cap back and I think it might be impossible.

More likely they go for Marner anyways if theyre ready to move that kind of cap space.

Habs, Wild, Seattle, Utah or Hawks make the most sense in my head. Althrough Utah or/and Habs might be on NTC. Maybe Ducks since they have a lot of cap space.

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

More likely they go for Marner anyways if theyre ready to move that kind of cap space.

Habs, Wild, Seattle, Utah or Hawks make the most sense in my head. Althrough Utah or/and Habs might be on NTC. Maybe Ducks since they have a lot of cap space.

I still don't see how Marner to Vegas makes sense. That would be really terrible for their overall cap structure. But it's Vegas, so I'm not counting anything out.

Personally, I think it's more logical for them to take a swing at Laine (with heavy retention, of course). Their very good centre depth is complemented by a quite poor winger depth. If they're going to win this year, they'll need to roll the dice after losing and not really replacing Marchessault. But that might be just because I'd dearly love a trade with Vegas, since they have several players that I'd be absolutely thrilled to see on the Blue Jackets (namely Karlsson, Roy, McNabb and Hague).

I'd agree the teams you listed make sense from a pure hockey perspective. I have a hard time seeing a trade with Minnesota make sense from a cap perspective though. San José would also work from a cap perspective. I'd imagine the return would have to include Ferraro then.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

I still don't see how Marner to Vegas makes sense. That would be really terrible for their overall cap structure. But it's Vegas, so I'm not counting anything out.

Yeah, these days I wont even look at cap with Vegas. They'll find a way to make it happen if they so wish.

 

[majormajor]

San José would also work from a cap perspective. I'd imagine the return would have to include Ferraro then.

That makes sense to me.

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

That makes sense to me.

The question is whether it would to the Sharks. They don't exactly have an abundance of defensemen. Now that they've taken on Walman, maybe.

 

[Youngguns80]

His rating on CapFriendly -73 (I wonder what is the calculation for that metric)

 

[CannonFire1]

I agree with those teams as likely buyers for Laine. I just don't see much worth trading for on their rosters (at least not that would be available). Those teams also wouldn't be trading high draft picks.

More likely they go for Marner anyways if theyre ready to move that kind of cap space.

Habs, Wild, Seattle, Utah or Hawks make the most sense in my head. Althrough Utah or/and Habs might be on NTC. Maybe Ducks since they have a lot of cap space.

 

[majormajor]

The question is whether it would to the Sharks. They don't exactly have an abundance of defensemen. Now that they've taken on Walman, maybe.

Also on second thought, I can see them thinking it's just not the right situation for Laine to get his mojo back. When he's in situations where he feels he needs to be the guy, he just carries it into crowds over and over again.

I agree with those teams as likely buyers for Laine. I just don't see much worth trading for on their rosters (at least not that would be available). Those teams also wouldn't be trading high draft picks.

We might be in a situation where we just have to move on and get a D separately. So thinking about where Laine fits is maybe enough.

So I guess that is a question - if we don't have a return, do you give Laine away or keep him?

I personally think it's better for Laine to move on and it's better for the Jackets to put young guys like Chinakhov and Fantilli in those big roles.

Or maybe this is one of those situations where we're not in that much of a hurry and we can see if a better trade opportunity arises in camp, as injuries start to pile up around the league.

 

[EspenK]

If the new coach is confident he can make Laine work in his system & Laine agrees to a try we shouldn't give him away.. Hopefully he would succeed here and either he brings back a good return or he contributes for 2 years and a decision is made then.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Does the can’t talk to the player thing mean you can’t talk to other teams about the player?

Laine coming off the PAP doesn’t really increase his value, does it?

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Does the can’t talk to the player thing mean you can’t talk to other teams about the player?

Laine coming off the PAP doesn’t really increase his value, does it?

Well, hopefully he gets released soon so teams can actually talk to him and figure out where his head and mental state is at. I certainly wouldn't trade for a guy if I didn't know what I was getting.

 

[Youngguns80]

Does the can’t talk to the player thing mean you can’t talk to other teams about the player?

Laine coming off the PAP doesn’t really increase his value, does it?

No team can talk to him and only through his agent - which I believe is Andy Scott.

That is also a reason while no team will move on him until they talk to him. The rumors were out there he might walk away from Hockey and teams want to hear it from his mouth that he still has that fire to play.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I want to know if D-Wad can talk to other teams about Laine. Not if other teams can talk to him.

Of course no one is going to trade for him until he comes off and they can talk to him. But you’re saying that accessibility increases his value in trade? Or just increases potential interest in the player?

 

[VT]

No team can talk to him and only through his agent - which I believe is Andy Scott.

That is also a reason while no team will move on him until they talk to him. The rumors were out there he might walk away from Hockey and teams want to hear it from his mouth that he still has that fire to play.

I haven't seen such rumours anywhere. Of course except John Davidson's press conference right after he joined the program and also Nikolaj Ehlers' words at the World Championship. If you have others in mind, is it possible to provide links? Thank you in advance.

I won't mention Don Waddell's words, it's understandable that if such a possibility existed, he certainly wouldn't mention it publicly
.

 

[NotWendell]

Does the can’t talk to the player thing mean you can’t talk to other teams about the player?

Laine coming off the PAP doesn’t really increase his value, does it?

Well, depends on how you look at it. He has no value as long as he's on the program.

 

[Youngguns80]

I want to know if D-Wad can talk to other teams about Laine. Not if other teams can talk to him.

Of course no one is going to trade for him until he comes off and they can talk to him. But you’re saying that accessibility increases his value in trade? Or just increases potential interest in the player?

Both to quell rumors that are swirling and he can talk about what he could do.

 

[majormajor]

I want to know if D-Wad can talk to other teams about Laine. Not if other teams can talk to him.

Wads can talk to anyone about Laine, and anyone can talk to Laine's agent.

 

[majormajor]

I'm trying to figure out if there's a way we can put Laine in a position to succeed and also make sure that there are high offensive minutes for young players like Fantilli and Chinakhov to gain confidence with. Obviously Gaudreau and Monahan will also need offensive deployment, largely in the offensive zone.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Fantilli
Chinakhov - Voronkov - Marchenko
Johnson - Jenner - Laine

I can get behind any of those lines as a good option. I'd be excited to see Jenner and Laine together again. But collectively how do you divvy up the defensive roles between the three lines? Or do you want to go back to playing Kuraly's line a quarter of the game in every defensive situation?

And then on the PP, I don't see how to do it. Laine and Gaudreau want to play the same spot and I want to see Fantilli and Chinakhov in big roles and literally our whole top 9 should be on the PP in some capacity, many of them should be on the #1 unit.

----------- Voronkov
Gaudreau - Monahan - Chinakhov

------- Jenner
Laine - Fantilli - Marchenko/KJ

There's not enough room.

 

[VT]

I'm trying to figure out if there's a way we can put Laine in a position to succeed and also make sure that there are high offensive minutes for young players like Fantilli and Chinakhov to gain confidence with. Obviously Gaudreau and Monahan will also need offensive deployment, largely in the offensive zone.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Fantilli
Chinakhov - Voronkov - Marchenko
Johnson - Jenner - Laine

I can get behind any of those lines as a good option. I'd be excited to see Jenner and Laine together again. But collectively how do you divvy up the defensive roles between the three lines? Or do you want to go back to playing Kuraly's line a quarter of the game in every defensive situation?

And then on the PP, I don't see how to do it. Laine and Gaudreau want to play the same spot and I want to see Fantilli and Chinakhov in big roles and literally our whole top 9 should be on the PP in some capacity, many of them should be on the #1 unit.

----------- Voronkov
Gaudreau - Monahan - Chinakhov

------- Jenner
Laine - Fantilli - Marchenko/KJ

There's not enough room.

Chinakhov plays bad with Marchenko and Marchenko with Chinakhov. On the other side Kirill has chemistry with Johnson.

1. Chinakhov (23) - Jenner (31) - Laine (26) (against the best lines other teams, also these players have excellent chemistry)
2. Johnson (22) - Voronkov (24) - Marchenko (24)
3. Gaudreau (31) - Monahan (30) - Fantilli (20) (they would play against third lines, so Johnny and Sean would not have problems with their defense so much)
4. Danforth (31) - Sillinger (21) - Olivier (27)

The first three lines would have equal time, the fourth plays enough too. We need high tempo and not one players is playin 20 minutes in 5v5, the second 10 minutes, although his level is TOP 6.

And again, the order of the lines means nothing, in fact it would be the first three lines.


Voronkov

Marchenko Monahan Fantilli

Werenski (honestly, Zach will play here)


Jenner

Johnson Laine Chinakhov

Only not Provorov and Severson

Both PP Units would have equal time

 

[majormajor]

Chinakhov plays bad with Marchenko and Marchenko with Chinakhov. On the other side Kirill has chemistry with Johnson.

1. Chinakhov (23) - Jenner (31) - Laine (26) (against the best lines other teams, also these players have excellent chemistry)
2. Johnson (22) - Voronkov (24) - Marchenko (24)
3. Gaudreau (31) - Monahan (30) - Fantilli (20) (they would play against third lines, so Johnny and Sean would not have problems with their defense so much)
4. Danforth (31) - Sillinger (21) - Olivier (27)

The first three lines would have equal time, the fourth plays enough too. We need high tempo and not one players is playin 20 minutes in 5v5, the second 10 minutes, although his level is TOP 6.

And again, the order of the lines means nothing, in fact it would be the first three lines.


Voronkov

Marchenko Monahan Fantilli

Werenski (honestly, Zach will play here)


Jenner

Johnson Laine Chinakhov

Only not Provorov and Severson

Both PP Units would have equal time

You should look at the rates they scored at by linemate.

Marchenko barely scored at all with KJ, it looks like one or two secondary assists. Much better rate with Chinakhov and Voronkov.

And Chinakhov scored very well with the two Russians, and even better with Gaudreau and Jenner. I considered penciling in Gaudreau - Monahan - Chinakhov but I thought Fantilli could use that more because he doesn't have an established group that he fits with.

 

[NotCommitted]

Laine - Monahan - Johnson
Gaudreau - Fantilli - Chinakhov
Jenner/Voronkov - Marchenko

Fantilli line gets as much easy offensive minutes as possible.

I don't wanna put too much effort into it since things with Laine are so unclear, this is based on the assumption that he'll start the season with the Jackets and is ready to go, but will get traded at some point - in other words both parties still feeling like it's best to move on, but no immeadiate urgency with the situation. I'd like to see him with Monahan. Right at this moment I'm feeling a bit impatient with Johnson, so I'd like to see him leaned on a bit, maybe not the wisest thing to do but hey I don't make the calls so I get to cater to my whims of the moment.

I think they should ice the best possible line up they can both 5v5 and on the PP, Laine will be gone by TDL at the latest, so he's not gonna block a youngster for long - or if somehow the situation has changed, then at his age he's a potential core piece to go with the young talent, I'm not closing any doors with the knowledge I have, though that seems unlikely. To paraphrase I think best development for the young players right now would be to win some games, no matter what role they win them in.

If Laine & Monahan don't look good together early on, no reason to be too patient with it, just swap Laine with Marchenko to put him with Jenner, or do a JG/Laine swap, Laine-Fantilli-Chinakhov could be insane with spoon fed offensive minutes. Or just go full blender mode and end up with the lines @majormajor proposed above, I liked those.

I don't think they should particularly cater to Laine, if he's good to go then he doesn't need that, and his trade value would rebound - if he's still feeling a bit iffy, either in general or specifically because of bad memories associated with Columbus, then it's best for everyone to part ways ASAP because nothing good will come of a "reunion" in that case.

 

[VT]

You should look at the rates they scored at by linemate.

Marchenko barely scored at all with KJ, it looks like one or two secondary assists. Much better rate with Chinakhov and Voronkov.

And Chinakhov scored very well with the two Russians, and even better with Gaudreau and Jenner. I considered penciling in Gaudreau - Monahan - Chinakhov but I thought Fantilli could use that more because he doesn't have an established group that he fits with.

Chinachov had an extremely high S% back then, figuratively speaking, a shot is a goal.
But when you look at the stats, so they show something other (btw, Marchenko plays better without Chinakhov).
Yes, Marchenko and Voronkov have better stats without Johnson, but they played not too much time together, about 7 games if count minutes.

Yegor Chinakhov - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

Kent Johnson - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

Next, Chinakhov is a sniper, Marchenko love s to shoot too. Move to Kirill a playmaker. Laine is a sniper too but he changed his play and had great chemistry with Yegor.

Of course if Patrik stay.

 

[CannonFire1]

Also on second thought, I can see them thinking it's just not the right situation for Laine to get his mojo back. When he's in situations where he feels he needs to be the guy, he just carries it into crowds over and over again.



We might be in a situation where we just have to move on and get a D separately. So thinking about where Laine fits is maybe enough.

So I guess that is a question - if we don't have a return, do you give Laine away or keep him?

I personally think it's better for Laine to move on and it's better for the Jackets to put young guys like Chinakhov and Fantilli in those big roles.

Or maybe this is one of those situations where we're not in that much of a hurry and we can see if a better trade opportunity arises in camp, as injuries start to pile up around the league.

If the market is so poor that they are giving Laine away (mid-round draft pick or picks plus salary dump) then at minimum the draft picks should have conditions attached that enables them to improve for factors like games played or goals scored.

Personally I would like to see others like Fantilli, Chinakov, Marchenko, Voronkov, Sillinger, etc. get the prime ice time in all situations.

 

[majormajor]

Laine - Monahan - Johnson
Gaudreau - Fantilli - Chinakhov
Jenner/Voronkov - Marchenko

Fantilli line gets as much easy offensive minutes as possible.

I don't wanna put too much effort into it since things with Laine are so unclear, this is based on the assumption that he'll start the season with the Jackets and is ready to go, but will get traded at some point - in other words both parties still feeling like it's best to move on, but no immeadiate urgency with the situation. I'd like to see him with Monahan. Right at this moment I'm feeling a bit impatient with Johnson, so I'd like to see him leaned on a bit, maybe not the wisest thing to do but hey I don't make the calls so I get to cater to my whims of the moment.

I think they should ice the best possible line up they can both 5v5 and on the PP, Laine will be gone by TDL at the latest, so he's not gonna block a youngster for long - or if somehow the situation has changed, then at his age he's a potential core piece to go with the young talent, I'm not closing any doors with the knowledge I have, though that seems unlikely. To paraphrase I think best development for the young players right now would be to win some games, no matter what role they win them in.

If Laine & Monahan don't look good together early on, no reason to be too patient with it, just swap Laine with Marchenko to put him with Jenner, or do a JG/Laine swap, Laine-Fantilli-Chinakhov could be insane with spoon fed offensive minutes. Or just go full blender mode and end up with the lines @majormajor proposed above, I liked those.

I don't think they should particularly cater to Laine, if he's good to go then he doesn't need that, and his trade value would rebound - if he's still feeling a bit iffy, either in general or specifically because of bad memories associated with Columbus, then it's best for everyone to part ways ASAP because nothing good will come of a "reunion" in that case.

Last year things went very wrong when Fantilli was centering Gaudreau. I'd like to find a way to make that work eventually, but probably a year or two down the road. I don't think Fantilli should be centering now in general.

The other issue is that the top two lines you listed don't really have any wings who can dig pucks out and put a lot of pressure on the forecheck or cycle. With the possible exception of Chinakhov. It looks like one and done rush lines with the puck heading back our way a lot. That's part of why I want Fantilli on the wing for now, he looks like he'd be a more effective grit guy who could retrieve pucks in the corners and keep the pressure up.

I could see Jenner and Voronkov teaming up on a strong matchup line, which we could certainly use. But I more strongly feel that they we need them centering their own lines, everyone else is going to be a defensive issue in those roles.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

I'm trying to figure out if there's a way we can put Laine in a position to succeed and also make sure that there are high offensive minutes for young players like Fantilli and Chinakhov to gain confidence with. Obviously Gaudreau and Monahan will also need offensive deployment, largely in the offensive zone.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Fantilli
Chinakhov - Voronkov - Marchenko
Johnson - Jenner - Laine

I can get behind any of those lines as a good option. I'd be excited to see Jenner and Laine together again. But collectively how do you divvy up the defensive roles between the three lines? Or do you want to go back to playing Kuraly's line a quarter of the game in every defensive situation?

And then on the PP, I don't see how to do it. Laine and Gaudreau want to play the same spot and I want to see Fantilli and Chinakhov in big roles and literally our whole top 9 should be on the PP in some capacity, many of them should be on the #1 unit.

----------- Voronkov
Gaudreau - Monahan - Chinakhov

------- Jenner
Laine - Fantilli - Marchenko/KJ

There's not enough room.

Jenner, Voro & Marchenko have the least the offensive potential in my books, so that's the clear permanent 3rd line for me. Build them into a good shutdown line. I'd also start Johnny and Monahan together to add comfortability. Fantilli 2C, and then rest of the pieces can move around

Johnny - Monahan - KJ
Chinakhov - Fantilli - Laine
Voronkov - Jenner - Marchenko

Jenner line gets matched up against opponents 1st lines and plays a lot of the Dzone faceoffs. 1st and 2nd line split O-zone starts, and play on same PP lines. So basically ur PP lines with RWs swapped.

If Voro has some sort of top 6, or I'm going back to russia thing going on, then it'll get tougher