Pat Quinn can't handle team Canada

[NFITO]

Quinn shouldn't be ignored here when it comes to blame... but there's a lot that needs to go around, and not just to Quinn.

There's also 2 other top coaches behind that bench as well... but more importantly there is a roster full of elite talent - and experienced talent - that needs to get in gear.

If we're talking about a young team here, you put more emphasis on the coach to get them going... but this isn't a young team... this is an experienced roster full of veterans.

If Quinn has to yell at these guys to get them to hustle - like the Finns did all game - then that's a pretty sad statement on the players... do you see the Finnish coach showing any emotion on the bench? Quinn gets blamed for this, yet no one seems to think that this is a factor for the Finns, or Swedes?

IMO the blame first needs to start on the defense... our transitional game has been horrible. There are bad passes coming out of the zone almost every time that makes it difficult to generate a good attack. Past the transitional game, the defense just hasn't covered the zone well at all, and aren't communicating well with the offense.

After that, the forwards seem confused out there. Maybe you blame Quinn for that, but IMO when you throw out Sakic, Iginla and Gagne, or Bertuzzi, Thornton and Nash, or well - pick whatever line you want - you expect them to play better positionally as a unit because these guys are all supposed to be among the top players on their respective teams. They aren't doing the small things well though - like being in the right position. They are crossing in each other's ice, and aren't covering the big ice well at all.

After that, maybe point fingers at Quinn. But I still maintain that if the stars played like stars, and not like an uninspired group of individuals, no one would be complaining right now about Quinn.

 

[Homer J. Leafs]

Quinn's also supposed to motivate his players, and hasn't done that.

no no no
quinn himself said, it isnt his job to motivate his players, players should motivate themselfs
thats the system he uses with the Leafs players too, and look how great it works

 

[BlueAndWhite]

Im quite an unimpressed Canadian fan. Sorry I had to rip into the Leafs involvement, but thats my prerogative. Flame away.

Well at least you were upfront about your obvious bias and the fact that this thread will be filled with baseless comments and post.

Nucksfan in TO has summed up a perfect argument, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Quinn shouldn't be ignored here when it comes to blame... but there's a lot that needs to go around, and not just to Quinn.

I don't suppose we can assign 100% of the blame to everyone?

If we're talking about a young team here, you put more emphasis on the coach to get them going... but this isn't a young team... this is an experienced roster full of veterans.

If Quinn has to yell at these guys to get them to hustle - like the Finns did all game - then that's a pretty sad statement on the players... do you see the Finnish coach showing any emotion on the bench? Quinn gets blamed for this, yet no one seems to think that this is a factor for the Finns, or Swedes?

He doesn't have to yell. I don't know of a single successful coach in the past decade that has to yell to their players. Saying that, one of the coaches main jobs is to motivate their players, ie. be prepared for the game. Clearly, Quinn hasn't been up to the task for that.

IMO the blame first needs to start on the defense... our transitional game has been horrible. There are bad passes coming out of the zone almost every time that makes it difficult to generate a good attack. Past the transitional game, the defense just hasn't covered the zone well at all, and aren't communicating well with the offense.

After that, the forwards seem confused out there. Maybe you blame Quinn for that, but IMO when you throw out Sakic, Iginla and Gagne, or Bertuzzi, Thornton and Nash, or well - pick whatever line you want - you expect them to play better positionally as a unit because these guys are all supposed to be among the top players on their respective teams. They aren't doing the small things well though - like being in the right position. They are crossing in each other's ice, and aren't covering the big ice well at all.

Both a product of the system. Breakout attacks are planned by the coach. It also must be Quinn's idea to play 2 forwards down below the goal line, and have almost no support to their pointman, so all shots come from at least 50 feet out.

After that, maybe point fingers at Quinn. But I still maintain that if the stars played like stars, and not like an uninspired group of individuals, no one would be complaining right now about Quinn.

I'll agree there that that's the players fault. As a big team that is (theoretically) equally as fast as any other team, you should not be beat on puck battles. The most embarassing had to be when 5'10, 175 lbs Saku Koivu beats 6'5, 230 lbs Chris Pronger clean along the boards that led to the 1st goal.

 

[BlueAndWhite]

I'll agree there that that's the players fault. As a big team that is (theoretically) equally as fast as any other team, you should not be beat on puck battles. The most embarassing had to be when 5'10, 175 lbs Saku Koivu beats 6'5, 230 lbs Chris Pronger clean along the boards that led to the 1st goal.

And this is the problem with the team. The players simply are not playing as well as they can.

But then again, you are one who believes that the team in SLC won "despite Quinn", so we'll avoid logic with you.

 

[Dig Out Your Soul]

Are we forgetting that there's two other great coaches standing beside Quinn who deserve some blame? Have they done a damn thing to prepare this team, inspire them or make them better? I hate seeing shots of the bench and all of them are just standing there with their mouths closed. Your title is "coach", perhaps you should do some of that.

 

[shakes]

Didn't people used to say that anyone could coach Team Canada? Isn't that why no one gave Quinn credit in '02?

Redden and Pronger were brutal on the ice today.. funny how they didn't get mentioned in the original post.

 

[colonel_korn]

My dad actually had the fortune to sit next to Pat Quinn on a flight a couple years ago and chatted with Quinn a bit about the SLC Olympics. Quinn said something about how the most important factor on that team to him wasn't the skill but the amount of leadership in the dressing room. If the current team doesn't succeed under him (and there's still a ways to go, let's not forget that) then I think that could be a factor. Quinn has always struck me as a coach who relies a lot on his veteran players to show leadership and motivate the team. That shouldn't really be a problem with this roster, but when you look at the SLC team they have lost a little bit. Guys like Lemieux, Yzerman, Nieuwendyk and Shanahan are out and have been replaced by younger guys who, while still very skilled players, might not have the same leadership attributes that those guys did.

Anyways, certainly the last two games have been disappointing but it's the medal rounds that count. There have been plenty of teams at these kind of tournaments in the past who haven't really gotten going until the elimination portion and have gone on to win.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Canada has a day off tomorrow, their last until after the quarter-final. Tomorrow is going to be a very big day for Canada's coaches. They need to run a spirited practice, reinforce what they want done, and make any necessary adjustments. If Canada does go on to win this tournament, Quinn, Hitchcock, Martin et al will deserve a lot of credit.

 

[Eb0la11]

And this is the problem with the team. The players simply are not playing as well as they can.

But then again, you are one who believes that the team in SLC won "despite Quinn", so we'll avoid logic with you.

Wow, two posts in this thread and you still have yet to add anything... Are you from Toronto? I mean Phaneutier has a point. Quinns system is making all shots from 50 feet out, exactly what he does in TO, I mean half of TO's goals come from a point shot by Mccabe... Yikes. I guess what your trying to say is that coaches aren't necassary... Good argument.

 

[BlueAndWhite]

Wow, two posts in this thread and you still have yet to add anything... Are you from Toronto? I mean Phaneutier has a point. Quinns system is making all shots from 50 feet out, exactly what he does in TO, I mean half of TO's goals come from a point shot by Mccabe... Yikes. I guess what your trying to say is that coaches aren't necassary... Good argument.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Team Canada's dismal performance has very little to do with Quinn's "system".

I didn't hear anyone complaining about Quinn's "system" in SLC. And you're right, that's all the Leafs do in Toronto, shoot from 50 feet.

Do you seriously believe the trash you type ?

 

[Eb0la11]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Team Canada's dismal performance has very little to do with Quinn's "system".

I didn't hear anyone complaining about Quinn's "system" in SLC. And you're right, that's all the Leafs do in Toronto, shoot from 50 feet.

Do you seriously believe the trash you type ?

Can you actually make sense? You dont even attempt to display any knowledge of hockey. You just make fun of peoples posts. Get a life.

My bad.

 

[Chandler55]

this thread needs to stay on topic or else it'll get locked up quick.

 

[Fabs]

The people to blame are the guys out on the ice, not the guys behind the bench. This is the Olympics, they're representing Canada. If thats not reason to be motivated to play hard and at their best than I don't know what is. Put the blame where it belongs guys, don't try to make excuses for the players and lay it somewhere else.

 

[Mess]

the players need to take responsibility here... not the coach.

Quinn - like him or hate him - was good enough coaching the last Olympic team, so saying he can't handle Team Canada is bull...

the offense is not clicking... they're not playing well at all, and the defense is just not that solid right now... when you have the talent and experience this team does, the players need to take responsbility for their play. Quinn's not coaching these guys to throw the puck away in the defensive zone... icing the puck 10 times every period... missing assignments in the offensive zone... etc.

This isn't Quinn's fault... this isn't Gretzky's fault... this isn't even McCabe's fault (and having Phaneuf on this team wouldn't change the record right now).... it's the collective play of the 20 skaters on the ice.

So what is the responsibility of the coach then ??

You make it sound like Team Canada doesn't need a coach at all .. Just let the players play and see what happens ..

While the players are certainly accountable for not producing and their individual play .. They still need a system and direction as to what to play ..

The system is the coaches responsibility and if Team Canada would have selected a different style coach then the results would be different ,, IMO A Mario Lemieux and a Mike Peca each bring a different element to each team for example ..

The last team is not this team different players just like a NHL team is different year to year and just because you won last year does not mean you will again ..

 

[Morbo]

The trouble with threads like this is that Quinn wasn't given any credit when the team won last time. A trained monkey, ranted many, could run a team that talented.

So why is he being blamed when a stacked superstar team is just going through the motions out there this time around?

If Quinn didn't get credit for the successes, because he just stands there and Hitchcock/Martin are the strategic brains behind the outfit, then shouldn't the latter two be taking the coaching blame now?

 

[Spungo*]

For the last 10 years I've been singing a song entitled "Canada can't win outside Nth America". I still think I'm right, and I've got more and more evidence.

If there was a Wolrd Cup tomorrow in Montreal, Canada would sitll win every game.

Just like in 1996, right?

 

[stockwizard*]

Good old Quinn is playing rope a dope just like Muhamed Ali.

 

[Freudian]

No team has a perfect system with so short preparations. I think it is down to the players. Work hard and create chances for your line. With the talent team Canada has you should be able to expect more from pretty much every player, from Sakic down.

 

[arrbez]

The trouble with threads like this is that Quinn wasn't given any credit when the team won last time. A trained monkey, ranted many, could run a team that talented.

So why is he being blamed when a stacked superstar team is just going through the motions out there this time around?

If Quinn didn't get credit for the successes, because he just stands there and Hitchcock/Martin are the strategic brains behind the outfit, then shouldn't the latter two be taking the coaching blame now?

blasphemy!

there is no hypocrisy on these message boards.

 

[stockwizard*]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=2336611

I was right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Tonight we looked kind of dopey"

Once again some terrific insight from fat Pat.

 

[Dig Out Your Soul]

Once again some terrific insight from fat Pat.

With all due respect, Hitch is much fatter than Quinn.

 

[ScottyBowman]

I think Mike Babcock would make an excellent coach. He's a real good x's and o's guy who doesn't take crap from anyone. Pat seems more like a player's coach.

 

[thebodyczech]

Pat Quinn is brutal as a coach for Canada IMO. This team isnt playing as a team at all, they just go one on five every time up the ice. NO TEAM PLAY WHATSOEVER. They arent even hitting, they can't get in the game and Quinn is the one that needs to step up and do a better job of running this team.

Oh yeah, and sorry to all you leaf fans, but Mccabe has been awful too. Ive seen him throw like 5 hail mary cross ice passes in this Canada Finland game alone. Hes not helping us defensively, and if he isnt scoring goals on the PP then he has no value. I dont know if Canada's brass considered this, but the olympic offensive zone is 10 feet shorter than the NHL's current offensive zone, also the net is a total of 11 feet closer to the blue line than the NHL. What this all mean? Mccabe doesnt have the time to get his bomb of a slap shot off on the PP.

Phaneuf woulda been a better choice. Better defensively, and probably 90-95% the power of mccabes slapper, only he gets it off alot faster. Im quite an unimpressed Canadian fan. Sorry I had to rip into the Leafs involvement, but thats my prerogative. Flame away.

Doctor, I concur.

I still have no idea why Quinn is coach of Toronto. The Senators fired Martin for underperforming during the playoffs. But it's not that Quinn has fared much better.

 

[think-blue-]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=2336611

I was right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Tonight we looked kind of dopey"

Once again some terrific insight from fat Pat.

As opposed to the wonderful insight youre offering with your 4 year old childish insults?

You should read Bob McKenzie's article on TSN. No 'system' in the world is going to make Pronger outbattle a guy half his size for the puck or prevent him from taking stupid penalties. These are fundamental problems with the team and it has more to do with a lack of execution and inability to follow the coaches plan rather than the strategies themselves...These are the same coaches who were good enough to lead the team to Gold in Salt Lake and the World Cup in 04, so they must be doing something right. Are people actually naive enough to believe that Quinn purposely tells his team to play unmotivated, undisciplined and unorganized hockey?