Pastrnak/Bergeron/Marchand vs Alfredsson/Spezza/Heatley

[WJCJ]

I don’t know why Alfredsson is being compared to Bergeron here when they play different positions.

Alfie is better than Marchand, Bergeron is better than Spezza, and I think prime Heatley and Pastrnak are pretty close.

It’s an interesting comparison.

I'm going to disagree on Heatley and Pastrnak. Pastrnak would skate Heatly out of his skates. Pastrnak has very close to the same amount of points in about 200 less games. Unless he has a major injury he is likely going to pass Heatley this coming season and still have 120 games to score more points all while being better defensively. Heatley didn't really play defense especially the longer he played.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Alfredsson is a far better player than Marchand lol come on now. Alfie was a guy you could build a franchise around as your best player, Marchand has never at any point in his career even been the best player on his team.

That being said, Bergeron is better than Spezza.

 

[tilly123123]

Which one won the cup? That’s the one

 

[bearcountry17]

Alfredsson is a far better player than Marchand lol come on now. Alfie was a guy you could build a franchise around as your best player, Marchand has never at any point in his career even been the best player on his team.

That being said, Bergeron is better than Spezza.

Marchand was the best player on the 16-17 to 18-19 Bruins.

 

[NyQuil]

Which one won the cup? That’s the one

When did Pastrnak win a Cup?

 

[hamzarocks]

Alfredsson is a far better player than Marchand lol come on now. Alfie was a guy you could build a franchise around as your best player, Marchand has never at any point in his career even been the best player on his team.

That being said, Bergeron is better than Spezza.

Naw thats plain Senator homerism

Alfredsson wasnt a guy you could build a team around and his peak was similar to marchands but marchand is the better and more consistent playoff performer.

Look at Marchand 2017 to 2021 he was at worst the 4th best winger in the in any individual season and was at best the best winger. For that 5 year period he was the 2nd best winger after kucherov and top 7 or 8 player in the league which an absurdly great prime.

Marchand has been the best player on the Bruins every year by a wide wide margin over bergeron if that is what your arguing. Pastranak was better than him in 2020 only for that 2017 to 2021 window

Marchand hart votes, ross finished, all NHL teams, ppg, playoffs production etc is simply a different tier than bergeron who needed marchand to get back to being a 1C after 9 years of 55-60 pt production

Marchand is a rat, and easy to hate, but hardly anyone matches his 5 year prime for wingers in the last 25 years

Kucherov (2017 to 2021 itself)
OV (2006 to 2010)
Patty Kane (2010 to 2015)

Are three 3 better periods but outaide of that hardly any winger has that level of regular season + playoffs dominance as 2017 - 2021 brad marchand

 

[Golden_Jet]

Naw thats plain Senator homerism

Alfredsson wasnt a guy you could build a team around and his peak was similar to marchands but marchand is the better and more consistent playoff performer.

Look at Marchand 2017 to 2021 he was at worst the 4th best winger in the in any individual season and was at best the best winger. For that 5 year period he was the 2nd best winger after kucherov and top 7 or 8 player in the league which an absurdly great prime.

Marchand has been the best player on the Bruins every year by a wide wide margin over bergeron if that is what your arguing. Pastranak was better than him in 2020 only for that 2017 to 2021 window

Marchand hart votes, ross finished, all NHL teams, ppg, playoffs production etc is simply a different tier than bergeron who needed marchand to get back to being a 1C after 9 years of 55-60 pt production

Marchand is a rat, and easy to hate, but hardly anyone matches his 5 year prime for wingers in the last 25 years

Kucherov (2017 to 2021 itself)
OV (2006 to 2010)
Patty Kane (2010 to 2015)

Are three 3 better periods but outaide of that hardly any winger has that level of regular season + playoffs dominance as 2017 - 2021 brad marchand

So I took a look at the Alfredsson peak vs
Marchand peak, after your homerism comment.
They look pretty similar on 5 years, Alfredsson ahead 10 year window.
Yep peaks similar, the rest is just your leaf opinion, and the homerism comment looks wrong.
Seems like Alfie had just as an absurdly great prime as well, better over 10 years.

Included all NHL players, as couldn’t sort by wingers.

Alfredsson 5 year window - 3rd in NHL

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Alfredsson 10 year window 3rd in NHL,

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Marchand 5 year window - 3rd in NHL

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Marchand 10 year window 8th in NHL

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[Erik Alfredsson]

So I took a look at the Alfredsson peak vs
Marchand peak, after your homerism comment.
They look pretty similar on 5 years, Alfredsson ahead 10 year window.
Yep peaks similar, the rest is just your leaf opinion.

Included all NHL players, as couldn’t sort by wingers.

Alfredsson 5 year window - 3rd in NHL

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Alfredsson 10 year window 3rd in NHL,

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Marchand 5 year window - 3rd in NHL

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Marchand 10 year window 8th in NHL

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Completely owned.

Talks about "Sens homerism" but is a hating Leaf fan. Alfie was always underrated playing on a small market Ottawa team. If he played his career in Toronto or Boston he'd be talked about like Sundin.

 

[hamzarocks]

So I took a look at the Alfredsson peak vs
Marchand peak, after your homerism comment.
They look pretty similar on 5 years, Alfredsson ahead 10 year window.
Yep peaks similar, the rest is just your leaf opinion.
Seems like Alfie had just as an absurdly great prime as well, better over 10 years.

Included all NHL players, as couldn’t sort by wingers.

Alfredsson 5 year window - 3rd in NHL

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Alfredsson 10 year window 3rd in NHL,

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Marchand 5 year window - 3rd in NHL

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Marchand 10 year window 8th in NHL

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Alfreddsson 5 year window hes 3rd in pts and 8th in ppg

Marchands 5 year window hes 3rd in pts and 3rd in ppg

Alfredssons 10 year window hes 3rd in pts and 11th in ppg

Marchands the link you provided is redirecting to alfredssons 10 year window instead for some reason so cant view but you said hes 8th in pts and unsure on ppg

The alfredsson fan was pretending that alfreddson was:

1) A player you can build a cup winner around which is just stupidity. Him, Sundin, Modano etc were #2 guys, and not guys who could be the #1 for a cup with modano winning one on much better teams than the leafs and sens were in late 90s to mid 00s

2) That alfredsson fan said that Alfredsson was a far better player than Marchand when the 5 year windows you showed that they are close with edge to Marchand for higher ppg and played higher end talent.

It was plain delusion on the levek of player a guy like Alfredsson was.

There are wingers fron the 90s to 00s that outclass marchand by a lot sure, Alfredsson isnt one of them

 

[NyQuil]

You can't even spell his name right half the time.

1) A player you can build a cup winner around which is just stupidity. Him, Sundin, Modano etc were #2 guys, and not guys who could be the #1 for a cup with modano winning one on much better teams than the leafs and sens were in late 90s to mid 00s

In 2007, Alfredsson led the entire NHL playoffs in goals and points.

Can you imagine if Matthews did something like that?

 

[hamzarocks]

Completely owned.

Talks about "Sens homerism" but is a hating Leaf fan. Alfie was always underrated playing on a small market Ottawa team. If he played his career in Toronto or Boston he'd be talked about like Sundin.

Your a homer mate, his argument just showed your wrong lol

You said alfredsson outclasses marchand when marchand comes ahead in pts+ppg for 5 year window

Alfredsson gets overrated insanely by sen fans due to lack of talent in their franchise history pre Erik Karlsson

Sundin also does get overrated similarly by leaf fans b/c our history for individual talent pret Matthews was horrific.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Alfreddsson 5 year window hes 3rd in pts and 8th in ppg

Marchands 5 year window hes 3rd in pts and 3rd in ppg

Alfreddssons 10 year window hes 3rd in pts and 11th in ppg

Marchands the link you provided is redirecting to alfreddsons 10 year window instead for some reason so cant view but you said hes 8th in pts and unsure on ppg

The alfredsson fan was pretending that alfreddson was:

1) A player you can build a cup winner around which is just stupidity. Him, Sundin, Modano etc were #2 guys, and not guys who could be the #1 for a cup with modano winning one on much better teams than the leafs and sens were in late 90s to mid 00s

2) That alfreddsson fan said that Alfredsson was a far better player than Marchand when the 5 year windows you showed that they are close with edge to Marchand for higher ppg and played higher end talent.

It was plain delusion on the levek of player a guy like Alfredsson was.

There are wingers fron the 90s to 00s that outclass marchand by a lot sure, Alfredsson isnt one of them

The team that went to the cup finals was built around Alfredsson, he was their top player, and lead by example on both ends of the ice, and it would be absurd to argue otherwise.

Your a homer mate, his argument just showed your wrong lol

You said alfredsson outclasses marchand when marchand comes ahead in pts+ppg for 5 year window

Alfredsson gets overrated insanely by sen fans due to lack of talent in their franchise history pre Erik Karlsson

Sundin also does get overrated similarly by leaf fans b/c our history for individual talent pret Matthews was horrific.

I never said he "outclassed", I said he was a far better player, which is true. Alfredsson made everyone he played with better, he was just as good statistically, but was a great leader and despite sharing the ice with Hall of Fame caliber players at points in his career, the team always rallied around his play. Whenever Ottawa wanted to get a player out of a cold streak, they'd put Alfie on their line, he could play with anyone and make them better because he was such a high IQ player with an unmatched work ethic. That says a lot about a player, you seem to just care about stats and award votes, which is a casual way of thinking about hockey.

 

[hamzarocks]

You can't even spell his name right half the time.



In 2007, Alfredsson led the entire NHL playoffs in goals and points.

Can you imagine if Matthews did something like that?

Career 100 pts in 124 games

Marchand 138 pts in 157 games and I think he also led 2019 playoffs in scoring

So similar playoff production, but marchand played on a pretty tight defensive team for a fair bit of that and was the main offense driver in 2019 vs 2007 alfredsson having more help

Matthews has eclipsed everything Alfredsson did in 8 years lol. Its like comparing Erik karlsson and Chris Phillips. Matthews impacts a game at a whole another level than Alfredsson ever did

Daniel Alfredsson isn't miles ahead of Marchand. Comparable players sure, but pretending alfredsson was a franchise winger is delusional. He was hardly a top 3 winger in his career on an individual season basis outside of 2006 and maybe 2008

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Career 100 pts in 124 games

Marchand 138 pts in 157 games and I think he also led 2019 playoffs in scoring

So similar playoff production, but marchand played on a pretty tight defensive team for a fair bit of that and was the main offense driver in 2019 vs 2007 alfredsson having more help

Matthews has eclipaed everything Alfredsson did in 8 years lol. Its like comparing Erik karlsson and Chris Phillips.

Daniel Alfredsson isn't miles ahead of Marchand. Comparable players sure, but pretending alfredsson was a franchise winger is delusional. He was hardly a top 3 winger in his career on an individual season basis outside of 2006 and maybe 2008

You've been watching hockey since at least 2012 and you still think it's all about points lol. This must be what happens when you only watch Maple Leaf hockey for 12 years.

Alfredsson was the only Hall of Famer on his line, and you're saying he had more help than Marchand who was playing with two Hall of Fame players? In what universe?

 

[hamzarocks]

The team that went to the cup finals was built around Alfredsson, he was their top player, and lead by example on both ends of the ice, and it would be absurd to argue otherwise.


I never said he "outclassed", I said he was a far better player, which is true. Alfredsson made everyone he played with better, he was just as good statistically, but was a great leader and despite sharing the ice with Hall of Fame caliber players at points in his career, the team always rallied around his play. Whenever Ottawa wanted to get a player out of a cold streak, they'd put Alfie on their line, he could play with anyone and make them better because he was such a high IQ player with an unmatched work ethic. That says a lot about a player, you seem to just care about stats and award votes, which is a casual way of thinking about hockey.

This is just you remembering fondly of a player you grew up watching during a period of high contentioj for the sens

Nothing about Alfredssons accomplishments, production or legacy outside of Senator fans paint him to be anywhere near a better player than Marchand let alone far better

Would you argue Alfredsson was a better player than Patrick Kane, Nikita Kucherov and other elite wingers from this era?

Marchand was a tier below the very best wingers/players at his peak/prime which is same for Alfredsson for his prime

 

[hamzarocks]

You've been watching hockey since at least 2012 and you still think it's all about points lol. This must be what happens when you only watch Maple Leaf hockey for 12 years.

Alfredsson was the only Hall of Famer on his line, and you're saying he had more help than Marchand who was playing with two Hall of Fame players? In what universe?

Look at the seasons alfredsson had high ranking production and seasons of note, he played with 2 other 100 pt/pace players from 06-08

Alfredsson outside of those 3 years wasnt a top 5 winger in the league ever.

The only reason Spezza and Heatley didnt make the hall of fame is due to injuries in their 30s/their body slowing down which hurt their ability to compile at the end of their career like alfredsson did.

Spezza isnt even eligible for the hall yet though he likely doesnt make it due to poor end to his career in dallas when he shoukd have maintained his production.

The sens always underperformed and choked with alfredsson like the current leafs. If you want to compare him, can compare him to Marner whi usually fades in the playoffs.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

This is just you remembering fondly of a player you grew up watching during a period of high contentioj for the sens

Nothing about Alfredssons accomplishments, production or legacy outside of Senator fans paint him to be anywhere near a better player than Marchand let alone far better

Would you argue Alfredsson was a better player than Patrick Kane, Nikita Kucherov and other elite wingers from this era?

Marchand was a tier below the very best wingers/players at his peak/prime which is same for Alfredsson for his prime

Nothing I said about Alfredsson is false. No shit only Sens fans speak about him that way, do you think anybody outside of Ottawa watches the Senators at all? They're a team nobody pays attention to lol.

Alfredsson is a different player than Kane and Kucherov. Both of those guys are more dynamic offensively and can carry the play better than Alfredsson ever could. But neither of them could lead a team like Alfredsson could, neither one of them are as consistent at both ends of the ice like Alfredsson was. More talented sure, but there's more to hockey than just skill. I would bet big money that a team would stand a better chance of winning the cup with Alfie wearing the C and leading a room than either Kane or Kucherov.

Look at the seasons alfredsson had high ranking production and seasons of note, he played with 2 other 100 pt/pace players from 06-08

Alfredsson outside of those 3 years wasnt a top 5 winger in the league ever.

The only reason Spezza and Heatley didnt make the hall of fame is due to injuries in their 30s/their body slowing down which hurt their ability to compile at the end of their career like alfredsson did.

Spezza isnt even eligible for the hall yet though he likely doesnt make it due to poor end to his career in dallas when he shoukd have maintained his production.

The sens always underperformed and choked with alfredsson like the current leafs. If you want to compare him, can compare him to Marner whi usually fades in the playoffs.

Spezza was never a Hall of Fame level player. Creative offensively with a great toolkit, severely lacking in too many areas of his game. Heatley was a great goal scorer and a good playmaker, but he needed to play with the right linemates to be as good as he was. Again, all you talk about is points, there's way more to hockey than points. How have you been watching the sport for 12 years and still think hockey is all about points? This is what never witnessing winning playoff hockey does to a man.

 

[hamzarocks]

Nothing I said about Alfredsson is false. No shit only Sens fans speak about him that way, do you think anybody outside of Ottawa watches the Senators at all? They're a team nobody pays attention to lol.

Alfredsson is a different player than Kane and Kucherov. Both of those guys are more dynamic offensively and can carry the play better than Alfredsson ever could. But neither of them could lead a team like Alfredsson could, neither one of them are as consistent at both ends of the ice like Alfredsson was. More talented sure, but there's more to hockey than just skill. I would bet big money that a team would stand a better chance of winning the cup with Alfie wearing the C and leading a room than either Kane or Kucherov.

To bad the sens were notorious chokers with Big C Alfie lool.

Man I didnt think it was possible to have such delusional takes

Alfredsson didnt win anything, didnt produce anywhere near guys like Kane or Kucherov but you have some make belief imaginary confidence teams would rather him on their team than Kane or Kucherov whose production has won 5 cups and played in 7 finals. Just insane

Leaf fans do this with Sundin and a lot with doug gilmour too, so its not only sens fans who are guilt of overrating their legends and putting them on a pedestal vs players multiple tiers better then them (kane and kucherov)

 

[hamzarocks]

Nothing I said about Alfredsson is false. No shit only Sens fans speak about him that way, do you think anybody outside of Ottawa watches the Senators at all? They're a team nobody pays attention to lol.

Alfredsson is a different player than Kane and Kucherov. Both of those guys are more dynamic offensively and can carry the play better than Alfredsson ever could. But neither of them could lead a team like Alfredsson could, neither one of them are as consistent at both ends of the ice like Alfredsson was. More talented sure, but there's more to hockey than just skill. I would bet big money that a team would stand a better chance of winning the cup with Alfie wearing the C and leading a room than either Kane or Kucherov.


Spezza was never a Hall of Fame level player. Creative offensively with a great toolkit, severely lacking in too many areas of his game. Heatley was a great goal scorer and a good playmaker, but he needed to play with the right linemates to be as good as he was. Again, all you talk about is points, there's way more to hockey than points. How have you been watching the sport for 12 years and still think hockey is all about points? This is what never witnessing winning playoff hockey does to a man.

Again what have the sens ever won?

You guys are a losing organization just like the leafs and get ran out of your own building by leaf fans whenever we play

Sen fans talk like they have the history of MTL while having win jack shit in their history.

The leafs core being chokers doesnt erase the sens failures to win series with the alfredsson led cores in early 00s losing often to the maple leafs.

Your take on winning and playoff hockey do they hold for Erik Karlsson? Doughty fans argue Doughty >> karlsson due to defense/leadership/playoffs winning which us a bad take imo, but does karlsson become better than Doughty or a similar level player b/c of points?

Alfredsson is clearly your personal hero/favorite player. Across the NHL hes just another star player mid tier hall of famer like a Sundin, Modano are

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

To bad the sens were notorious chokers with Big C Alfie lool.

Man I didnt think it was possible to have such delusional takes

Alfredsson didnt win anything, didnt produce anywhere near guys like Kane or Kucherov but you have some make belief imaginary confidence teams would rather him on their team than Kane or Kucherov whose production has won 5 cups and played in 7 finals. Just insane

Leaf fans do this with Sundin and a lot with doug gilmour too, so its not only sens fans who are guilt of overrating their legends and putting them on a pedestal vs players multiple tiers better then them (kane and kucherov)

Big chokers? They made it to the finals in 2007 with Alfredsson leading the playoffs in points and goals, and they fell short to a blueline lead by two of the greatest defenseman of their generation and 3 Hall of Fame forwards upfront, there's no shame in that. What did Sundin do in the playoffs? Get knocked off by Sami Kapanen and Jeff O'Neill?

I never said I'd rather him on a team than Kane or Kucherov. Dynamic guys that can carry offense like Kane and Kucherov are extremely hard to come by, it's very valuable. But if you want a cornerstone leader that is going to set the identity of a team, then Alfie is a better choice for that role than those two players. It's like if Florida had to choose between Barkov and Tkachuk, they're shipping out Tkachuk. Tkachuk is the more dynamic scorer, but Barkov is that team's leader and identity and does that job in a way that Tkachuk never could.

 

[NyQuil]

Yeah, just trolling at this point.

 

[hamzarocks]

Big chokers? They made it to the finals in 2007 with Alfredsson leading the playoffs in points and goals, and they fell short to a blueline lead by two of the greatest defenseman of their generation and 3 Hall of Fame forwards upfront, there's no shame in that. What did Sundin do in the playoffs? Get knocked off by Sami Kapanen and Jeff O'Neill?

I never said I'd rather him on a team than Kane or Kucherov. Dynamic guys that can carry offense like Kane and Kucherov are extremely hard to come by, it's very valuable. But if you want a cornerstone leader that is going to set the identity of a team, then Alfie is a better choice for that role than those two players. It's like if Florida had to choose between Barkov and Tkachuk, they're shipping out Tkachuk. Tkachuk is the more dynamic scorer, but Barkov is that team's leader and identity and does that job in a way that Tkachuk never could.

The panthers were losers with Barkov with failed rebuild after rebuild.

They got their asses kicked in 2022 and had to make a franchise altering trade to get Tkachuk and reform their offense to be able to win.

Tkachuk > Barkov, he reformed the panthers culture and made them from known chokers to never say die attotude 2023 cup finalist team

This year tkachuk, barkov, verhaghe etc all contributed heavily to win the cup and bobovsky in particular stopped Mcdavid from having the undisputed best playoffs in NHL history by winning game 7 2-1.

Kucherov's & Kanes produce at consistent ppg+ levels in the playoffs, score huge clutch goals and/or get huge game winning assists.

That is what is tangibly valuable and brings cups and borderline dyansty's to teams like tampa and hawks

Not intangible leadership garbage

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Yeah, just trolling at this point.

Because he's got nothing, now he's just spewing nonsense about playoff chokers and not ever winning in the playoffs and blah blah blah... That's the sad thing, he didn't start off trolling, but once he realized he's out of his depth he started getting silly. Sad, very sad.

Just a stat watching hating Leaf fan, they're a dime a dozen.

Not intangible leadership garbage

How to invalidate your opinion in one sentence.

Again, not surprised a Leaf fan doesn't believe in the value of leadership lol.

 

[hamzarocks]

Because he's got nothing, now he's just spewing nonsense about playoff chokers and not ever winning in the playoffs and blah blah blah...

Just a stat watching hating Leaf fan, they're a dime a dozen.


How to invalidate your opinion in one sentence.

Again, not surprised a Leaf fan doesn't believe in the value of leadership lol.

Your posts are fanboy delusion. Keep enjoying your alfredsson fanfics

The league will remember the Patrick Kanes and Nikita Kucherovs while you can hold the name of the great daniel alfredsson forever as its lost to time

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Your posts are fanboy delusion. Keep enjoying your alfredsson fanfics

The league will remember the Patrick Kanes and Nikita Kucherovs while you can hold the name of the great daniel alfredsson forever as its lost to time

This is just sad...