Part 2- 2015 Draft - or ALL prior draft discussion here

[ON3M4N]

When you lose a cup because you can't score 5 v 5 and have no secondary scoring still, and there were a plethora of studs available that you passed not once, not twice but three times,, yeah that will have some staying power....

And if you changed those 3 picks you maybe don't even make the cup. Again its asinine to assuming that everything remains the same when you change those three picks. Its the one thing that blows my mind that people can't get through their heads. You change those 3 picks and you change everyones draft boards, you change everyones off-season plans for trades and FA. Game outcomes change, players roles and production changes. VGK was a perfect example of that. You had guys like William Karlsson who had 50pt in his first 183gp go on to VGK and put up 78pts his first year with the team. Just because those guys are having success with their current teams doesn't mean they'd find the same success or opportunities in Boston.

Change those three picks leads to a rabbit hole of possibilities and what ifs. But lets just say nothing changes....how is Boston affording to keep all these guys? You'd right now have 21 guys under contract and already $712k over the cap AND that doesn't including whatever Barzal contract would cost....which could be $8+ million a year.

So Krejci's probably has to go, but again he's essentially got a full NTC since he can block 50% of the NHL teams. So he controls his fate and reduces the number of teams you can trade with.....which drives the value down and seeing as teams know Boston would need to move him to get under, guess what, you're probably giving up something significant to get him moved because he becomes a cap dump for Boston.

 

[LouJersey]

And if you changed those 3 picks you maybe don't even make the cup. Again its asinine to assuming that everything remains the same when you change those three picks. Its the one thing that blows my mind that people can't get through their heads. You change those 3 picks and you change everyones draft boards, you change everyones off-season plans for trades and FA. Game outcomes change, players roles and production changes. VGK was a perfect example of that. You had guys like William Karlsson who had 50pt in his first 183gp go on to VGK and put up 78pts his first year with the team. Just because those guys are having success with their current teams doesn't mean they'd find the same success or opportunities in Boston.

Change those three picks leads to a rabbit hole of possibilities and what ifs. But lets just say nothing changes....how is Boston affording to keep all these guys? You'd right now have 21 guys under contract and already $712k over the cap AND that doesn't including whatever Barzal contract would cost....which could be $8+ million a year.

So Krejci's probably has to go, but again he's essentially got a full NTC since he can block 50% of the NHL teams. So he controls his fate and reduces the number of teams you can trade with.....which drives the value down and seeing as teams know Boston would need to move him to get under, guess what, you're probably giving up something significant to get him moved because he becomes a cap dump for Boston.

Barzal was on a minimum deal he would have changed nothing. Now you want to argue he’s a right wing on this team because the Bruins are smarter than everyone else, maybe you have an argument. Barzal has been a work in progress, but Trotz is prob a better coach than Butch so if he can play center for him he could for us.

As for affording him, by Krejci. Wouldn’t expect much back for him with or without needing to move him. Having to sign elite talent is a luxury not an issue.

At some point the Bruins will need to draft pure skill guys and put them in and be patient like with Pasta. Pasta is still bad defensively, but oh well, you don’t score you don’t win.

‘15 is long gone but I still know Rangers fans who complain about Duguay over Bossy so I would think the consternation will be here for a long time.

 

[LouJersey]

True, but everyone that hates what happened has vented their hearts out about it for at least two years if not longer. At some point you have to let it go, don't you? The Cups that might have got away still got away. I guess if you are on the "Fire Sweeney!" train, as some are, then you do need to keep harping because this is your best evidence that he needs a sacking. Otherwise, I'm not sure what it continues to do for people. But different strokes for different folks as they say

I’m a big Sweeney fan, but he has his warts. Drafting and UFA is a big part in assembling a team and where are his hits?

DeBrusk, McAvoy and Carlo.

Big UFA core pieces? Nope

Same hole at RW 2 for 5 years? Yep

He’s a master at the contract extension, made a nice deal for Coyle and Mojo (who he should have kept)..very good UDFA college players signed and good at filling the bottom of the roster with depth like Nordy and Halak.

I definitely don’t think he should be fired but he needs to shake up pro scouting and change their draft philosophy and finally address his top 6 with a bonafide top 6 player

 

[MattFromFranklin]

Barzal was on a minimum deal he would have changed nothing. Now you want to argue he’s a right wing on this team because the Bruins are smarter than everyone else, maybe you have an argument. Barzal has been a work in progress, but Trotz is prob a better coach than Butch so if he can play center for him he could for us.

As for affording him, by Krejci. Wouldn’t expect much back for him with or without needing to move him. Having to sign elite talent is a luxury not an issue.

At some point the Bruins will need to draft pure skill guys and put them in and be patient like with Pasta. Pasta is still bad defensively, but oh well, you don’t score you don’t win.

‘15 is long gone but I still know Rangers fans who complain about Duguay over Bossy so I would think the consternation will be here for a long time.

Kyle Connor would likely also still be on his ELC contract, as opposed to the 1st year of his extension in WPG. WPG foolishly called him up and burned a year of his ELC, as he played in about 20 games in 16-17. It would've been a different situation here than burning one year of McAvoy's ELC in 16-17, given our need on D. So, Barzal and Connor would still be on their ELC's this season, allowing Sweeney to have some flexibility with the cap.

People also forget that Krejci's name was on the trade block in the summer of '18. Sweeney was hesitant to trade him because of how it'd look and because he'd rather move Backes (brilliant signing, GM of the year!). I remember reading that Krejci was "nervous" about being dealt that summer. With Barzal on the team, and the phenomenal season he had in 17-18, Krejci might have been dealt that summer (to a team of his choosing), especially since he'd be our 3rd line Center entering 18-19 at $7 Million per year. This would've still allowed us to still acquire Coyle as our 3rd line Center. If Krejci refused to be dealt, we could've still afforded to have him as our 3rd line center through this year. But, with Barzal and Connor (assuming we wouldn't have burned a year in 16-17) having their ELC's expire, Krejci would be dealt this coming offseason.

 

[ON3M4N]

Barzal was on a minimum deal he would have changed nothing. Now you want to argue he’s a right wing on this team because the Bruins are smarter than everyone else, maybe you have an argument. Barzal has been a work in progress, but Trotz is prob a better coach than Butch so if he can play center for him he could for us.

As for affording him, by Krejci. Wouldn’t expect much back for him with or without needing to move him. Having to sign elite talent is a luxury not an issue.

At some point the Bruins will need to draft pure skill guys and put them in and be patient like with Pasta. Pasta is still bad defensively, but oh well, you don’t score you don’t win.

‘15 is long gone but I still know Rangers fans who complain about Duguay over Bossy so I would think the consternation will be here for a long time.

Was never talking about his deal. If he's here playing C then they don't go out and get Coyle, maybe they don't get Backes....again its a rabbit hole of possibilities. Maybe Barzal breaks camp with Boston, they make the playoffs and miss the chance to draft McAvoy. Maybe after change those 3 picks Carlo moves up on someones board and isn't available when Boston comes back in round 2. Now what does your right side of the defense look like? Again its a rabbit hole of possibilities. My entire point is people who harp on the 2015 draft pretend like every other guy after those 3 picks is still on the team, when that simply isn't the case. Could they be? sure, but we don't know that. We could have won every Stanley Cup since that draft or failed to make the playoffs each year, who knows.

 

[member 96824]

And if you changed those 3 picks you maybe don't even make the cup. Again its asinine to assuming that everything remains the same when you change those three picks. Its the one thing that blows my mind that people can't get through their heads. You change those 3 picks and you change everyones draft boards, you change everyones off-season plans for trades and FA. Game outcomes change, players roles and production changes. VGK was a perfect example of that. You had guys like William Karlsson who had 50pt in his first 183gp go on to VGK and put up 78pts his first year with the team. Just because those guys are having success with their current teams doesn't mean they'd find the same success or opportunities in Boston.

Change those three picks leads to a rabbit hole of possibilities and what ifs. But lets just say nothing changes....how is Boston affording to keep all these guys? You'd right now have 21 guys under contract and already $712k over the cap AND that doesn't including whatever Barzal contract would cost....which could be $8+ million a year.

So Krejci's probably has to go, but again he's essentially got a full NTC since he can block 50% of the NHL teams. So he controls his fate and reduces the number of teams you can trade with.....which drives the value down and seeing as teams know Boston would need to move him to get under, guess what, you're probably giving up something significant to get him moved because he becomes a cap dump for Boston.

Can’t you play the same hypothetical game and say that, just like “well they might not have made the cup”, that maybe they wouldn’t have spent $11M in cap on David Backes, Matt Beleskey, Dennis Seidenberg, and John Moore this past season?

 

[ON3M4N]

Kyle Connor would likely also still be on his ELC contract, as opposed to the 1st year of his extension in WPG. WPG foolishly called him up and burned a year of his ELC, as he played in about 20 games in 16-17. It would've been a different situation here than burning one year of McAvoy's ELC in 16-17, given our need on D. So, Barzal and Connor would still be on their ELC's this season, allowing Sweeney to have some flexibility with the cap.

People also forget that Krejci's name was on the trade block in the summer of '18. Sweeney was hesitant to trade him because of how it'd look and because he'd rather move Backes (brilliant signing, GM of the year!). I remember reading that Krejci was "nervous" about being dealt that summer. With Barzal on the team, and the phenomenal season he had in 17-18, Krejci might have been dealt that summer (to a team of his choosing), especially since he'd be our 3rd line Center entering 18-19 at $7 Million per year. This would've still allowed us to still acquire Coyle as our 3rd line Center. If Krejci refused to be dealt, we could've still afforded to have him as our 3rd line center through this year. But, with Barzal and Connor (assuming we wouldn't have burned a year in 16-17) having their ELC's expire, Krejci would be dealt this coming offseason.

again more maybes, assumptions and likely comments aka a rabbit hole.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Can’t you play the same hypothetical game and say that, just like “well they might not have made the cup”, that maybe they wouldn’t have spent $11M in cap on David Backes, Matt Beleskey, Dennis Seidenberg, and John Moore this past season?

Tough choice between 11+ milly on Barzal/Connor/Chabot etc or Backes/Beleskey/Moore/etc.

I'd need to see the advanced metrics

 

[member 96824]

Our drafting in first round was average i guess but second round was elite

Wanna know why?

I'll give you a hint. You were LMAOing about it in a past page.

(Carlo #22 on McKenzie's consensus list drafted #37, Lindgren #46, drafted #49)

The rest the jury is still out, while the future looks bright for Studnicka and to a lesser extent Lauzon...I've been watching hockey too long to put a check mark next to someone's name before they've played 50 games. Future captain Joe Colborne still rings a bell to me.

 

[ON3M4N]

Can’t you play the same hypothetical game and say that, just like “well they might not have made the cup”, that maybe they wouldn’t have spent $11M in cap on David Backes, Matt Beleskey, Dennis Seidenberg, and John Moore this past season?

yes you can. That's why I've said it numerous times in numerous post, its a rabbit hole of possibilities. At this point, if people want to drive themselves crazy playing what-if's for the 2015 draft then have at it. At the end of the day its not going to change the 2015 draft results and folks will never really know how things will turn out. Sure they can play the movie in their head about what COULD have happened, but that's just them seeing things play out how they want them to vs what might have actually happened.

Seems like a waste of time to me to worry about a draft from 5 years ago when doing so changes nothing, but to each their own.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

yes you can. That's why I've said it numerous times in numerous post, its a rabbit hole of possibilities. At this point, if people want to drive themselves crazy playing what-if's for the 2015 draft then have at it. At the end of the day its not going to change the 2015 draft results and folks will never really know how things will turn out. Sure they can play the movie in their head about what COULD have happened, but that's just them seeing things play out how they want them to vs what might have actually happened.

Seems like a waste of time to me to worry about a draft from 5 years ago when doing so changes nothing, but to each their own.

That's why you have to option to not open the thread. Nothing you have said is any news to any of us who like to discuss this mishap. You aren't bringing some revelation nobody in here has never thought of.

 

[ON3M4N]

That's why you have to option to not open the thread. Nothing you have said is any news to any of us who like to discuss this mishap. You aren't bringing some revelation nobody in here has never thought of.

LOL I'm not sure I'd calling pissing and moaning about the 2015 draft a discussion, but you can call it what you want. Kind of funny though the bolded comment, you could make the same comment about those who bring up the 2015 draft in any thread they can....couldn't you? doesn't stop the boo-hoo 2015 draft crew from bringing it up though.

Interesting for all the years I've been here I never realized that there was an "ignore thread" button (thanks to those to PM me about it) and I fully intend to use it on this thread lol.

 

[member 96824]

yes you can. That's why I've said it numerous times in numerous post, its a rabbit hole of possibilities. At this point, if people want to drive themselves crazy playing what-if's for the 2015 draft then have at it. At the end of the day its not going to change the 2015 draft results and folks will never really know how things will turn out. Sure they can play the movie in their head about what COULD have happened, but that's just them seeing things play out how they want them to vs what might have actually happened.

Seems like a waste of time to me to worry about a draft from 5 years ago when doing so changes nothing, but to each their own.

Ehh, a bigger waste of time is coming in to the "all 2015 and other former draft talk" discussion once a month to tell everyone they're dumb for still wanting to talk about it IMO. I mean the point of this thread is to reduce clutter from the rest of the board. It's not meant to be logical, it's a pillow to scream into.

But, at least for me, it isn't the individual moves or trying to figure out the butterfly effect or how that draft would have changed the 2019 season specifically. Hell, with our group of geniuses up top, Barzal and Connor probably would probably have already been shipped off. who knows. But the discussion at large, is the franchise over the short, medium, and long term would have been better off not trying to outsmart the crowd. Unfortunately for us, the same way the Kessel trade was a defining moment to the positive(and the negative for the Leafs), the 2015 draft is a defining moment for the Bruins to the downside

I would also say, you have to keep in mind, many of the same people scolding people and telling them to get over it have spent the last 5 years also scolding people because it was too early and nothing could be talked about yet and they're just fast food fans wanting all satisfaction immediately with no patience and etc. etc. etc.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

LOL I'm not sure I'd calling pissing and moaning about the 2015 draft a discussion, but you can call it what you want. Kind of funny though the bolded comment, you could make the same comment about those who bring up the 2015 draft in any thread they can....couldn't you? doesn't stop the boo-hoo 2015 draft crew from bringing it up though.

Interesting for all the years I've been here I never realized that there was an "ignore thread" button (thanks to those to PM me about it) and I fully intend to use it on this thread lol.

Again. Nothing you said here is something that hasn't already been said. People are going to keep on discussing it anyway regardless of what you feel is worthy of being labeled a "discussion"

 

[LouJersey]

Was never talking about his deal. If he's here playing C then they don't go out and get Coyle, maybe they don't get Backes....again its a rabbit hole of possibilities. Maybe Barzal breaks camp with Boston, they make the playoffs and miss the chance to draft McAvoy. Maybe after change those 3 picks Carlo moves up on someones board and isn't available when Boston comes back in round 2. Now what does your right side of the defense look like? Again its a rabbit hole of possibilities. My entire point is people who harp on the 2015 draft pretend like every other guy after those 3 picks is still on the team, when that simply isn't the case. Could they be? sure, but we don't know that. We could have won every Stanley Cup since that draft or failed to make the playoffs each year, who knows.

ILl take Barzal and live with any and all scenarios

 

[Estlin]

Tough choice between 11+ milly on Barzal/Connor/Chabot etc or Backes/Beleskey/Moore/etc.

I'd need to see the advanced metrics

Seriously. I'd rather be the GM of a team with the elite talent and pay for it than the GM of a team pissing away money on mediocre players.

There's no excuse for the poor choices that Boston made in the first round in the 2015 draft.

 

[LouJersey]

Again. Nothing you said here is something that hasn't already been said. People are going to keep on discussing it anyway regardless of what you feel is worthy of being labeled a "discussion"

Same people all year who say look at the standings when you say “this team isn’t as good as their record” or “Tampa will kill them in the playoffs.” Everything is so rosy until it’s not and those people are the ones who hide and can’t admit they were wrong.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Same people all year who say look at the standings when you say “this team isn’t as good as their record” or “Tampa will kill them in the playoffs.” Everything is so rosy until it’s not and those people are the ones who hide and can’t admit they were wrong.

We've been saying it for a while, 5v5 scoring is gonna be this teams Achilles heel. Even during the teams hot streaks when they look unbeatable.

They made it to game 7 SCF last season even with that problem but you have to wonder how they would have fared against the usual suspects they managed to avoid.

 

[Babajingo]

I was just looking, from the 2007 to the 2013 draft (that's 7 drafts in a row). There were only two productive draft picks, Sequin and Hamilton. Who they traded both away. After them it's Benning, Spooner and Colburne. If any of them stuck, they would be in their upper 20s/low 30s now. I know, different GM. I didn't look at other teams but i imagine most do better?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Same people all year who say look at the standings when you say “this team isn’t as good as their record” or “Tampa will kill them in the playoffs.” Everything is so rosy until it’s not and those people are the ones who hide and can’t admit they were wrong.

3 years running those 2 quotes have been right, if we're being fair.

Hell, the only reason they made the Finals last year was because the stars aligned and both Tampa and Washington got upset before any match up. Otherwise, we'd be looking at 3 straight seasons losing to TB

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I was just looking, from the 2007 to the 2013 draft (that's 7 drafts in a row). There were only two productive draft picks, Sequin and Hamilton. Who they traded both away. After them it's Benning, Spooner and Colburne. If any of them stuck, they would be in their upper 20s/low 30s now. I know, different GM. I didn't look at other teams but i imagine most do better?

Grzelcyk was a 2012 pick

 

[Tbaybruin]

And if you changed those 3 picks you maybe don't even make the cup. Again its asinine to assuming that everything remains the same when you change those three picks. Its the one thing that blows my mind that people can't get through their heads. You change those 3 picks and you change everyones draft boards, you change everyones off-season plans for trades and FA. Game outcomes change, players roles and production changes. VGK was a perfect example of that. You had guys like William Karlsson who had 50pt in his first 183gp go on to VGK and put up 78pts his first year with the team. Just because those guys are having success with their current teams doesn't mean they'd find the same success or opportunities in Boston.

Change those three picks leads to a rabbit hole of possibilities and what ifs. But lets just say nothing changes....how is Boston affording to keep all these guys? You'd right now have 21 guys under contract and already $712k over the cap AND that doesn't including whatever Barzal contract would cost....which could be $8+ million a year.
Ya works both ways we could have drafted the guys we should have and won the last two cups with more on the way. Fact is we would be perennial cup contenders if we drafted better in round 1
So Krejci's probably has to go, but again he's essentially got a full NTC since he can block 50% of the NHL teams. So he controls his fate and reduces the number of teams you can trade with.....which drives the value down and seeing as teams know Boston would need to move him to get under, guess what, you're probably giving up something significant to get him moved because he becomes a cap dump for Boston.

 

[Babajingo]

Grzelcyk was a 2012 pick

Missed that. My bad.

 

[member 96824]

I was thinking this morning...

Imagine if the Bruins drafted Barzal and Connor over Senyshyn and Zboril.

 

[CDJ]

I was thinking this morning...

Imagine if the Bruins drafted Barzal and Connor over Senyshyn and Zboril.

Never thought of it that way but wow