OT: Parabola Memorial B.C. Lions Thread #1

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y2kcanucks

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The attendance was pitiful, had to be the lowest in 15-16 years. If that's not a statement on how out of touch Braley and Skulsky are with this market, I don't know what is.

Is Geroy Simon still with the club? The fact he's not out in the public eye at all or even doing radio spots on stations not named TSN is mind boggling.

Geroy essentially works as a scout.

I agree that Braley and Skulsky are completely out of touch. Going back to the gun metal grey uniforms that the fans absolutely loved, Braley didn't like them because they weren't orange. Dennis didn't like them after they lost to Saskatchewan a couple years ago when he guaranteed a win that night and had to give out 25,000 free tickets for future games.

Yet you still see fans wearing that jersey. Huge missed opportunity there. Rather than telling the fans what they are going to get, they need to listen to what the fan base wants.

I put some blame on Jamie Taras as well. He's as much a part of this mess as anyone.

I do, however, give credit to the guy who runs their game days. Bringing in the University of Washington Huskies Marching Band is huge. And in the next home game (my idea that I pitched to them by the way) they're doing a blackout for the player intros. But that's all fine and dandy, but it won't get butts in seats.
 

Rocko604

Sports will break your heart.
Apr 29, 2009
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Geroy essentially works as a scout.

I agree that Braley and Skulsky are completely out of touch. Going back to the gun metal grey uniforms that the fans absolutely loved, Braley didn't like them because they weren't orange. Dennis didn't like them after they lost to Saskatchewan a couple years ago when he guaranteed a win that night and had to give out 25,000 free tickets for future games.

Yet you still see fans wearing that jersey. Huge missed opportunity there. Rather than telling the fans what they are going to get, they need to listen to what the fan base wants.

I put some blame on Jamie Taras as well. He's as much a part of this mess as anyone.

I do, however, give credit to the guy who runs their game days. Bringing in the University of Washington Huskies Marching Band is huge. And in the next home game (my idea that I pitched to them by the way) they're doing a blackout for the player intros. But that's all fine and dandy, but it won't get butts in seats.

Their marketing mentality is 'Winning will fill seats'. Skulsky firmly believes in that. Well that idea clearly is a failure. Agreed on Taras and especially the gun metal jerseys. I mean if you want orange jerseys at least go back to those 70s retro ones they wore at Empire in 2010. Those were beautiful. Not the monstrosities they currently wear (yeah, I've completely done a 180 on them).
 

Captain Bowie

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Jan 18, 2012
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What a game last night. Jennings is truly a special talent, and having games like that allow me to not get too upset when has makes bad mistakes that costs games like he has this season a couple times, given his age.

RE: Attendance. Yes I agree with the above. I am kicking myself for not going last night, no one else could go, but dammit I should have just gone by myself anyways. I certainly plan on going on the 22nd, 5th and hopefully a home playoff game too.

The uniforms this year were a small disaster if you ask me. It does show they are out of touch with the fans. I would have loved to be asked my opinion, either through fan submissions, some kind of town hall style event, or just given a chance to email thoughts and concerns. Ridding the gunt metal from the set was a huge mis-step, they clearly mis-judged how much most people loved those even for just a couple games a year.

They would be well advised to actually give the fans around here some input to what they are doing, even if it is superficial.


Last order of business, time for a new thread. Who's on it?
 

Captain Bowie

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Jan 18, 2012
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Their marketing mentality is 'Winning will fill seats'. Skulsky firmly believes in that. Well that idea clearly is a failure. Agreed on Taras and especially the gun metal jerseys. I mean if you want orange jerseys at least go back to those 70s retro ones they wore at Empire in 2010. Those were beautiful. Not the monstrosities they currently wear (yeah, I've completely done a 180 on them).

I've been saying that for years!!!!!!

geroy.jpeg


2010-TEAM-RETRO-AUG-273832.jpg


2009-03-26_162822_BC_Lions.jpg



Anything like that with the black paw helmet would be a dream.
 

Free Edler

Enjoy retirement, boys.
Feb 27, 2002
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Their marketing mentality is 'Winning will fill seats'. Skulsky firmly believes in that. Well that idea clearly is a failure. Agreed on Taras and especially the gun metal jerseys. I mean if you want orange jerseys at least go back to those 70s retro ones they wore at Empire in 2010. Those were beautiful. Not the monstrosities they currently wear (yeah, I've completely done a 180 on them).
The Lions' marketing strategy hasn't changed since 1985, they're still going for boomers and their parents. I love the Lions and hope they're around for another 100 years but they are profoundly incompetent at marketing their own product, which is exciting and fun to watch.

Part of the problem is the people running the show. Not too put too fine a point on it, but they're old. The social media work they've been doing this season has been pretty solid, but the rest of their marketing isn't geared at the demographics they will desperately need in the coming years.

Not nearly enough money is put into marketing, that side of things are run like a non-profit and its staff are woefully underpaid with a heavy reliance on interns and contractors. An actual marketing department with a proper director and experienced staff is the way to go. Whoever is running their social and video team deserves a raise.
 

Rocko604

Sports will break your heart.
Apr 29, 2009
8,562
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Vancouver, BC
RE: Attendance. Yes I agree with the above. I am kicking myself for not going last night, no one else could go, but dammit I should have just gone by myself anyways. I certainly plan on going on the 22nd, 5th and hopefully a home playoff game too.

The uniforms this year were a small disaster if you ask me. It does show they are out of touch with the fans. I would have loved to be asked my opinion, either through fan submissions, some kind of town hall style event, or just given a chance to email thoughts and concerns. Ridding the gunt metal from the set was a huge mis-step, they clearly mis-judged how much most people loved those even for just a couple games a year.

They would be well advised to actually give the fans around here some input to what they are doing, even if it is superficial.

I'll be at the Riders game on the 5th as well.

Admittedly I'm a bit of a hypocrite for complaining about attendance as I'll be at the Washington Huskies game on the 22nd. The cost of the ticket was basically the cost of two Lions tickets. Planning to go to the West Semi-Final if they do host it and I'm not working.

As for the input from fans, they don't want it.

The Lions' marketing strategy hasn't changed since 1985, they're still going for boomers and their parents. I love the Lions and hope they're around for another 100 years but they are profoundly incompetent at marketing their own product, which is exciting and fun to watch.

Part of the problem is the people running the show. Not too put too fine a point on it, but they're old. The social media work they've been doing this season has been pretty solid, but the rest of their marketing isn't geared at the demographics they will desperately need in the coming years.

Not nearly enough money is put into marketing, that side of things are run like a non-profit and its staff are woefully underpaid with a heavy reliance on interns and contractors. An actual marketing department with a proper director and experienced staff is the way to go. Whoever is running their social and video team deserves a raise.

Agreed 100%. And everything you said is my fear with Braley selling the team as Skulsky and his group of like-minded and old waterboys are the only group who's actually been identified as a potential buyer. That scares me enough to want the Aqulini group to buy it. At least 1. They've grown up with the Lions as well and 2. They appear much more in tune with the market than what we currently have. That said, it's easy to look to look like you know what you're doing when it's an NHL team in a Canadian city and making money hand over fist. How much money would they actually pump into the Lions though?
 
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y2kcanucks

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I see a lot of complaining about the Lion's marketing staff and initiatives (or lack thereof), but not a lot of actual solutions or ideas.

So...what would you like to see the Lions do from a marketing standpoint? What can they do to bring in another 15-20k fans? What is their marketing department currently lacking that you think needs to be there? Let's come up with some ideas.
 

Free Edler

Enjoy retirement, boys.
Feb 27, 2002
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I see a lot of complaining about the Lion's marketing staff and initiatives (or lack thereof), but not a lot of actual solutions or ideas.
I've worked in marketing and social media for ~8 years and run large campaigns, hoss. No need to be defensive because someone is pointing out the busted wheels on your apple cart. They don't need to market to true believers like you. You're already in. It's getting everyone else excited that's important.

Change should start at the top. I know Dennis Skulsky is a nice man who is in great with David Braley, but he's a newspaper guy and super-fan who lucked into a good job. Chayka comes from a player agent background. The team will need to open its wallet and hire a CEO with experience in emerging business, not dead business.

So...what would you like to see the Lions do from a marketing standpoint? What can they do to bring in another 15-20k fans? What is their marketing department currently lacking that you think needs to be there? Let's come up with some ideas.
What are they currently lacking? Experienced personnel who can run large campaigns with fresh ideas. If they're reticent to look outside the organization for a marketing director, hand the job to the woman who handles their digital/social and give her a budget. A real budget and for the love of everything holy, keep the ex-players away from the marketing department.

Jonathan Jennings should be massive in this city. He's the most exciting athlete to hit Vancouver since Casey Printers, only with staying power. Their marketing looks exactly the same as Bobby Ackles' final years running the show and paying a couple people straight out of BCIT ~$30k/yr to tweak old print graphics isn't working.
 
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y2kcanucks

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Aug 3, 2006
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Surrey, BC
I've worked in marketing and social media for ~8 years and run large campaigns, hoss. No need to be a smart-ass because someone is pointing out the busted wheels on your apple cart. They don't need to market to true believers like you. You're already in. It's getting everyone else excited that's important.

Change should start at the top. I know Dennis Skulsky is a nice man who is in great with David Braley, but he's a newspaper guy and super-fan who lucked into a good job. Chayka comes from a player agent background. The team will need to open its wallet and hire a CEO with experience in emerging business, not dead business.

Maybe if you bothered to read the posts on this very page you would see my own complaints about it (without offering up any tangible ideas), so I guess I'm being a smart ass by including myself in that group?

And yes, I agree with certain personnel needing to be replaced, but what exactly are we looking for? Just shuffling the deck on the titanic won't change much. I agree that we need people with certain experience, but what is it exactly that we want them to bring?

I also think that the team should look south and try to attract some people who are currently working in NFL organizations. Obviously you won't get people who are top level executives, but perhaps they can bring in some younger personnel who have been exposed to what works, but perhaps have their upward mobility blocked by those above them.

You also state you work in marketing. I don't. But I think you could offer some very good ideas to this discussion.

What are they currently lacking? Experienced personnel who can run large campaigns with fresh ideas. Jonathan Jennings should be massive in this city. He's the most exciting athlete to hit Vancouver since Casey Printers, only with staying power. Their marketing looks exactly the same as Bobby Ackles' final years running the show and paying a couple people straight out of BCIT ~$30k/yr to tweak old print graphics isn't working.

How do they make Jonathan Jennings massive in the city?

He's featured on their TV ads and the print ads I see. Are you suggesting they run more ads? How else do they accomplish this? (Perhaps this is my own ignorance coming from a more financial background rather than marketing).


I personally think the team needs to work with the media a lot more. Media coverage is piss poor compared to what the Canucks get. In the summer you still get Canucks coverage almost every day, while after the Lions season ends you don't hear anything about them until mid-late spring unless there's something special that happens. Furthermore, local media only covers the Lions and doesn't really go into much about the rest of the league. Vancouver as a sports market is lousy. A lot of people attend events if is a place to be seen, rather than for the actual entertainment value. If the team and the league as a whole received a lot more coverage, people might take it more seriously.


Access to players is far better with the Lions than it is with the Canucks though. The Lions hold several events throughout the season for season ticketholders and the general public. They also do the road trips better than the Canucks, where you actually get to fly with the players and coaches, and you stay in the same hotel, and even dine with them at the pre-game meal.
 

Free Edler

Enjoy retirement, boys.
Feb 27, 2002
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Maybe if you bothered to read the posts on this very page you would see my own complaints about it (without offering up any tangible ideas), so I guess I'm being a smart ass by including myself in that group?

And yes, I agree with certain personnel needing to be replaced, but what exactly are we looking for? Just shuffling the deck on the titanic won't change much. I agree that we need people with certain experience, but what is it exactly that we want them to bring?

I also think that the team should look south and try to attract some people who are currently working in NFL organizations. Obviously you won't get people who are top level executives, but perhaps they can bring in some younger personnel who have been exposed to what works, but perhaps have their upward mobility blocked by those above them.

You also state you work in marketing. I don't. But I think you could offer some very good ideas to this discussion.
I go in and out on these threads because the current state of the team bums me out a bit. I wish they were supported better, but they've got pretty big demographic problems (read: fans are old) and a flagging marketing strategy. It's going to involve spending a bit of dough to get the best talent, especially given where the team is located and the cost of living involved, but it would be a good gig for a mid-level exec really looking to pad their portfolio.

Pulling back from so much focus on legacy media (print, bus/SkyTrain ads, radio/TV campaigns) and pouring some of that money into online, particularly places like Facebook, will be worth it in the end. The ROI for Facebook versus legacy media is incredibly lopsided and the Lions already do great online work. It's just a matter of turning that work into more sales.

It's important to note the Lions have come back from these sorts of troubles before, around the time Braley was sniffing around buying the team ~20 years ago, only it's much less dire right now. Investing in the staff needed to create a better marketing strategy will be a big factor in turning things around, but a re-investment of time on the ground in the community will probably be the most important part.

How do they make Jonathan Jennings massive in the city?

He's featured on their TV ads and the print ads I see. Are you suggesting they run more ads? How else do they accomplish this? (Perhaps this is my own ignorance coming from a more financial background rather than marketing).
A lot of it will involve going to where the people are. The key growing demographics for the Lions will be in the suburbs. People around our age are settling down, getting married and having kids and for the most part, we (the royal we) don't venture into Vancouver more than a few times a year for special events.

One would think having the team offices in Surrey would give the team a keen eye on the Mainland and the Valley, but apart from print ads, I haven't seen a whole lot of effort. Setting up a folding table at community events with one player signing autographs for half an hour doesn't do it. It'll require a multi-year investment of time.

An emphasis on getting young families out to games - which would involve lowering ticket prices, too, they're just too high - would start the wheels turning a bit. They have to provide a reason for people to make the effort to go downtown and part of it involves improving the in-game experience too.

I personally think the team needs to work with the media a lot more. Media coverage is piss poor compared to what the Canucks get. In the summer you still get Canucks coverage almost every day, while after the Lions season ends you don't hear anything about them until mid-late spring unless there's something special that happens. Furthermore, local media only covers the Lions and doesn't really go into much about the rest of the league. Vancouver as a sports market is lousy. A lot of people attend events if is a place to be seen, rather than for the actual entertainment value. If the team and the league as a whole received a lot more coverage, people might take it more seriously.
Lions kind of boxed themselves into a corner with 1040/1410. In the beginning, they were the top dog on the TEAM, but things changed pretty quick when they got the Canucks rights.

Moving away from NW was necessary in terms of its dwindling audience and mediocre talent - McConnell was long past it by the time they departed - but now they're stuck playing 2nd/3rd fiddle on an outlet they need a lot more than it needs them. I'm not sure what the solution is here. They're not in a position to pressure 1040, but they're really not getting much help.

If we're talking about print media, Lowell Ullrich retiring/getting re-assigned at the Province really hurt them. He was a great beat writer who really did a great job covering the games and telling the stories of the players. Mike Beamish is still around, but he can only write so many articles. There are a smattering of blogs and online-only pubs that make an effort to cover the team and if improving grassroots support is on their agenda, getting closer to these independent outlets is the way to go.

Access to players is far better with the Lions than it is with the Canucks though. The Lions hold several events throughout the season for season ticketholders and the general public. They also do the road trips better than the Canucks, where you actually get to fly with the players and coaches, and you stay in the same hotel, and even dine with them at the pre-game meal.
And this is something they should be keying on. Separating themselves from the Canucks in their marketing should really be job one for whomever they have running the show next year. An emphasis on these guys being regular Joes might be an interesting tack here. I remember they did something similar ~10 years ago and a refresh may be worth looking at, especially with guys like Manny Arceneaux on the team who have big personalities.

Manny has done some good community work and he's got a magnetic personality in addition to being a pretty damn good football player - he's the sort of guy they should be focusing on. I like Travis Lulay too, but he's a backup playing the back nine of his career, get him out of the ads. Nobody comes to watch Lulay hold a clipboard and run short yardage plays.

In a way, the Lions are in a better position than the Canucks because the product itself isn't the problem. Being able to sell and properly scale a really great product is a lot less of a challenge, but there's still plenty of work ahead.
 
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y2kcanucks

Better than you
Aug 3, 2006
71,249
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Surrey, BC
I go in and out on these threads because the current state of the team bums me out a bit. I wish they were supported better, but they've got pretty big demographic problems (read: fans are old) and a flagging marketing strategy. It's going to involve spending a bit of dough to get the best talent, especially given where the team is located and the cost of living involved, but it would be a good gig for a mid-level exec really looking to pad their portfolio.

Pulling back from so much focus on legacy media (print, bus/SkyTrain ads, radio/TV campaigns) and pouring some of that money into online, particularly places like Facebook, will be worth it in the end. The ROI for Facebook versus legacy media is incredibly lopsided and the Lions already do great online work. It's just a matter of turning that work into more sales.

It's important to note the Lions have come back from these sorts of troubles before, around the time Braley was sniffing around buying the team ~20 years ago, only it's much less dire right now. Investing in the staff needed to create a better marketing strategy will be a big factor in turning things around, but a re-investment of time on the ground in the community will probably be the most important part.


A lot of it will involve going to where the people are. The key growing demographics for the Lions will be in the suburbs. People around our age are settling down, getting married and having kids and for the most part, we (the royal we) don't venture into Vancouver more than a few times a year for special events.

One would think having the team offices in Surrey would give the team a keen eye on the Mainland and the Valley, but apart from print ads, I haven't seen a whole lot of effort. Setting up a folding table at community events with one player signing autographs for half an hour doesn't do it. It'll require a multi-year investment of time.

An emphasis on getting young families out to games - which would involve lowering ticket prices, too, they're just too high - would start the wheels turning a bit. They have to provide a reason for people to make the effort to go downtown and part of it involves improving the in-game experience too.


Lions kind of boxed themselves into a corner with 1040/1410. In the beginning, they were the top dog on the TEAM, but things changed pretty quick when they got the Canucks rights.

Moving away from NW was necessary in terms of its dwindling audience and mediocre talent - McConnell was long past it by the time they departed - but now they're stuck playing 2nd/3rd fiddle on an outlet they need a lot more than it needs them. I'm not sure what the solution is here. They're not in a position to pressure 1040, but they're really not getting much help.

If we're talking about print media, Lowell Ullrich retiring/getting re-assigned at the Province really hurt them. He was a great beat writer who really did a great job covering the games and telling the stories of the players. Mike Beamish is still around, but he can only write so many articles. There are a smattering of blogs and online-only pubs that make an effort to cover the team and if improving grassroots support is on their agenda, getting closer to these independent outlets is the way to go.


And this is something they should be keying on. Separating themselves from the Canucks in their marketing should really be job one for whomever they have running the show next year. An emphasis on these guys being regular Joes might be an interesting tack here. I remember they did something similar ~10 years ago and a refresh may be worth looking at, especially with guys like Manny Arceneaux on the team who have big personalities.

Manny has done some good community work and he's got a magnetic personality in addition to being a pretty damn good football player - he's the sort of guy they should be focusing on. I like Travis Lulay too, but he's a backup playing the back nine of his career, get him out of the ads. Nobody comes to watch Lulay hold a clipboard and run short yardage plays.

In a way, the Lions are in a better position than the Canucks because the product itself isn't the problem. Being able to sell and properly scale a really great product is a lot less of a challenge, but there's still plenty of work ahead.

Great read, and you mention some great ideas.

The Lions are great on Twitter, but you're right about Facebook. I even started thinking about my own news feed on Facebook and a lot of the articles I see are from independent groups.

Not sure if you are aware but this year the Lions brought on Matt Baker to their group. He used to work for the Team and is now doing a lot of the Lions media work. Expanding his duties and making him more prevalent online should help.
 

Free Edler

Enjoy retirement, boys.
Feb 27, 2002
25,385
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Surrey, BC
Great read, and you mention some great ideas.

The Lions are great on Twitter, but you're right about Facebook. I even started thinking about my own news feed on Facebook and a lot of the articles I see are from independent groups.

Not sure if you are aware but this year the Lions brought on Matt Baker to their group. He used to work for the Team and is now doing a lot of the Lions media work. Expanding his duties and making him more prevalent online should help.
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words.

Matt Baker was a smart hire. I met him many, many moons ago - probably pre-1040 now that I think of it, I was a newspaper journo in a previous life - and he's a guy who knows what he's talking about as both a broadcaster and football fan, so it adds a layer of credibility to the in-house media.
 

ping

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I've worked in marketing and social media for ~8 years and run large campaigns, hoss. No need to be defensive because someone is pointing out the busted wheels on your apple cart. They don't need to market to true believers like you. You're already in. It's getting everyone else excited that's important.

Change should start at the top. I know Dennis Skulsky is a nice man who is in great with David Braley, but he's a newspaper guy and super-fan who lucked into a good job. Chayka comes from a player agent background. The team will need to open its wallet and hire a CEO with experience in emerging business, not dead business.


What are they currently lacking? Experienced personnel who can run large campaigns with fresh ideas. If they're reticent to look outside the organization for a marketing director, hand the job to the woman who handles their digital/social and give her a budget. A real budget and for the love of everything holy, keep the ex-players away from the marketing department.

Jonathan Jennings should be massive in this city. He's the most exciting athlete to hit Vancouver since Casey Printers, only with staying power. Their marketing looks exactly the same as Bobby Ackles' final years running the show and paying a couple people straight out of BCIT ~$30k/yr to tweak old print graphics isn't working.

I also have worked in marketing for a decade and am a huge Lions fan. Everything you have said in this thread is bang on. It's so obvious that it's painful. I know people who have worked in the Lions office and they say much the same. They are led by an old boys club with many former football players who lack the necessary modern marketing skills. Sure, keep some in the organization, but have them do community outreach stuff, not marketing and sales strategies. They need some of Wally Buono's cutthroat "sorry we need to make a change", but on the business side. They may be nice guys, but we all know where nice guys finish. Need to spend money to make money and it's also time to bring in some fresh blood. A lot of damage has been done. It's time to turn it around.
 

Captain Bowie

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Jan 18, 2012
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RE: Helping the in-game experience. They made a big deal about the UW marching band. Fine. But their could be some kind of entertainment every week. Let some local up and coming artists get a crack at a 3-song set. On second thought maybe no so much, acoustics there are terrible lol. But need a consistent entertainment package that will attract people, and maybe different groups of people, every week.

More promotions. Family Night: Half price child with full price adult, or even free.. Fan Night: Let the fans come down onto the field afterwards, meet the players. Vintage Night: Wear some old beauty uni's, bring back some old players, play some old school music, ect.. Merch giveaways, ect...

None of that will have much of an affect on my, I will go to the games I can, and will be more inspired to do so if the on field product is good. But it's the casual fans and the families in the burbs they need to cater to.
 

Free Edler

Enjoy retirement, boys.
Feb 27, 2002
25,385
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Surrey, BC
I also have worked in marketing for a decade and am a huge Lions fan. Everything you have said in this thread is bang on. It's so obvious that it's painful. I know people who have worked in the Lions office and they say much the same. They are led by an old boys club with many former football players who lack the necessary modern marketing skills. Sure, keep some in the organization, but have them do community outreach stuff, not marketing and sales strategies. They need some of Wally Buono's cutthroat "sorry we need to make a change", but on the business side. They may be nice guys, but we all know where nice guys finish. Need to spend money to make money and it's also time to bring in some fresh blood. A lot of damage has been done. It's time to turn it around.
It's just so frustrating to watch. After floundering on the field for the last few years and punting last season with a coach who didn't want to be here, they've finally got it all together with an exciting young team and stalwart vets like Manny and Elimimian finally getting the right group of guys in support but they're drawing flies at the gate.

The wrong people were given way too much rope and now their marketing is in shambles; however, it's not just marketing, branding need to be brought back to earth as well. New uniform designs needed to be workshopped more before going public. I'm not a designer, but even I could have told them day-glo orange/white and that logo wasn't a good idea.
 
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