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P.K. Subban - What happened?

Frank Drebin said:
I don't know what argument you think you've won. If you think PK was anything other than a top 10 dman in the league from around 2013-2018 you really have no clue. I wasn't a huge fan of the guy but he could play.
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Stylizer1 said:
Drivel? I'm talking hockey. I'm sure he is a great man off the ice and has the character to match. That was never supposed to be the argument which you seem to have shifted the discussion to in classic HFB straw man fashion.

What you deem is hating are facts in my books which you have no come back for.

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Lol, it isn’t a strawman at all. You brought the off-ice stuff into it yourself with the “spotlight” and “milking it” comment, insinuating that he lacks character in that area as well. Now, me pointing out FACTS that disprove that narrative has your little undies in a twist.

And the use of that gif and talk of “facts” by you is just hilarious considering how badly this exchange has gone for you so far 😂

Backpedaling, attempting to gaslight, and being disingenuous/dishonest - just take the L on this one dude. The lengths some people will go to try to keep their pride is crazy.
 
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I was one of the supporters of the Subban for Weber trade, but I will say another positive thing about Subban, is that he was clutch under pressure in the big games, especially against the Boston Bruins, the main rival for the Canadiens. You could count on him to step up when it mattered.
 
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Bull said:
I tried searching for a post on this here but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for nor on a basic Google AI search with a result of "reality of decline". PK was 32 his last season before he retired. As a Norris-winning D-man, what exactly were the "tangibles" or in-tangibles with his game that led to his decline and early retirement that can be described here? Saying, "he lost a step" isn't necessarily what I'm looking for. I'm asking more about the actual things that he was doing or not doing on the ice that made it obvious that his window was over, eg: "could never make a first pass out of the zone without sending it RIGHT to the opposition on a consistent basis" or "every time he pinched, it led to an odd-man rush the other way". Appreciate the input.
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He wouldn't play in a system and thought he was bigger than the team
 
Quatre Vingt Treize said:
He wouldn't play in a system and thought he was bigger than the team
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PK was cooked by the time he got to New Jersey, so I can’t attest to the accuracy of the first statement. The second one is a totally bullshit narrative. You’re not going to hear a single player on those Devils teams say anything bad about him- particularly Jack Hughes, who seemed to have looked up to him as a role model.
 
thebeernerd said:
PK was cooked by the time he got to New Jersey, so I can’t attest to the accuracy of the first statement. The second one is a totally bullshit narrative. You’re not going to hear a single player on those Devils teams say anything bad about him- particularly Jack Hughes, who seemed to have looked up to him as a role model.
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He wasn't good in dressing room why Habs dumped him
 
Injuries and i know you asked for something more specific than just generally "losing a step"...but that's what it ultimately came down to.

To elaborate on that, Subban's game was always built around raw explosiveness. Everything he did well was about explosive speed and power. He never played a very efficient, cerebral game that was suited to aging gracefully. Some defencemen can afford to slow down because they're savvy positionally and understand how to get themselves to the right spots. Subban was always more...brute force, dynamic movement, and high effort to get himself to where he needed to be. His defensive play had a lot of explosive and reactionary elements to it...where he'd make plays defensively by sheer effort and raw athletic talent, rather than quietly making efficient plays proactively. There was a physicality to his game that would often carry him out of position on riskier hits and direct confrontation, but he had the athletic tools to make those sort of plays stick, and to get back into the play even when it didn't. Right up until he no longer did have the dynamic mobility to get away with that style of play anymore.

Even his play with the puck, he leaned a lot on just winding up and lugging the puck up ice himself. He was never really all that partial to the quick, efficient outlet pass to move the puck early easy. So as he started to lose a step, he started getting caught in bad turnovers more and more often, getting his pocket picked, etc. Which, seemed to spur him to also start trying to be more aggressive in making those risky stretch passes, which he was never the greatest at, and by that point...he just didn't have the mobility to recover when those things went wrong.


But long story short...he just started to really slow down and lose the dynamic explosiveness that his game was built on. And he just didn't play the sort of game that was made to cope with that loss of athleticism through efficiency and economy of action.
 
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Smirnov2Chistov said:
Slightly OT, but wasn't he not so liked 'behind closed doors' in Montreal?

I don't think it's libel, but there once a thread were a Montreal insider claimed certain players didn't get along with him.

Ah - found it:

TT1

Thread 'Tony Marinaro on why Subban was really traded'

audio:

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/marinaro-why-pk-subban-was-traded-1.518373 part 1

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/marinaro-no-doubt-pk-was-going-to-be-traded-1.518430 part 2

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/habs-lunch-pk-for-weber-1.518634 part 3


*Tony prefaces all this by saying he's not gonna get into a discussion about the trade, he wants us to know WHY PK got traded. Says Habs won the deal for the next 2'ish years, but lost the deal in the long-term.*

Important points:

-The Montreal Canadiens dont have to...
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I heard prust on a podcast. From what I recall, he generally liked pk but sometimes he could be get on your nerves.

I'd think that would be the general feeling around pk.

I dont think it was a situation where he was outcasted from the group or anything like that.

Although McGuire did mentioned at one point that players were having champagne when a guy got traded.... although if I were to guess, it was more likely that happened when grabovski or Ribeiro left.
 
he's lost 3,4 steps not just simply 1.
It was drastic & shocking how slow he became.
There's a point as a d-man you wanna accumulate muscle mass to help yourself stand on your ground but he went to the extreme.
His IQ wasn't too bad but he was a bodybuilding turtle on ice out there.
 
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So many trying to shit on Subban its hilarious.
At some point Ovechkin and Subban were the two most electric players in the game and then you had Bryzgalov speaking about the moon and the stars and Jokinen eating waffles on memes. Those were the times.
 
JianYang said:
I heard prust on a podcast. From what I recall, he generally liked pk but sometimes he could be get on your nerves.

I'd think that would be the general feeling around pk.

I dont think it was a situation where he was outcasted from the group or anything like that.

Although McGuire did mentioned at one point that players were having champagne when a guy got traded.... although if I were to guess, it was more likely that happened when grabovski or Ribeiro left.
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What’s the tea on Grabovski?
 
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