P.K. Subban - What happened?

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Slightly OT, but wasn't he not so liked 'behind closed doors' in Montreal?

I don't think it's libel, but there once a thread were a Montreal insider claimed certain players didn't get along with him.

Ah - found it:

Thread 'Tony Marinaro on why Subban was really traded'

Jun 30, 2016

audio:

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/marinaro-why-pk-subban-was-traded-1.518373 part 1

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/marinaro-no-doubt-pk-was-going-to-be-traded-1.518430 part 2

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/habs-lunch-pk-for-weber-1.518634 part 3


*Tony prefaces all this by saying he's not gonna get into a discussion about the trade, he wants us to know WHY PK got traded. Says Habs won the deal for the next 2'ish years, but lost the deal in the long-term.*

Important points:

-The Montreal Canadiens dont have to...

• TT1
• Replies: 782
• Forum: National Hockey League Talk

• 

 

[Better Call Sal]

Can only really speak for his time in NJ, but it was clear that he didn't have that explosiveness in his skating any longer once he got here. The injuries he had previously absolutely had to be a factor.

That said, he dialed back and started to play in a reduced role in the lineup and ended up having his best overall season here during that final year. Definitely wasn't a locker room issue. He looked out for the young guys on the team, especially seems to be pretty tight with Jack, and gladly pumps our team's tires on ESPN so I'll never have an issue with him.

I always liked him. I would have loved to have had him here in his prime, but he certainly wasn't a problem while he was here. There were much bigger problems here than PK himself. (Hynes/Shero firings, gutting the roster, etc.)

 

[HugeInTheShire]

He was washed by the time he got to NJ, but there were zero reports of him being anything other than loved in that locker room.

As for what happened to him, it's just as many people have already said. The injuries never really went away and it showed on the ice.

 

[EK47]

And thinks he's Don Cherry with those suits

Like the world would ever be in need of a replacement for that?

 

[Garbageyuk]

It's not false to me. You could see it that he was a train wreck when he was on the ice. He is and was a blip on the radar.

Norris winner and two time finalist. Rewrite history if you want, but it’s fantasy land.

 

[Stylizer1]

Norris winner and two time finalist. Rewrite history if you want, but it’s fantasy land.

Shortened season Norris.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Shortened season Norris.

And the other two seasons? Were they shortened as well?

 

[Stylizer1]

And the other two seasons? Were they shortened as well?

nope. Did he win?

 

[Mr Nogatco]

Haha I hope I don't come across as racist so I'll try to source my claims with some science papers:

MANY Black people have Type II twitch fibers which help many black athletes in things like sprints and short powerful burst. The unfortunate downside to this is rapid earlier deterioration in performance, and hyper-tension etc.

These results suggest that individuals of difference races may have different muscle fiber compositions. Ama et al. 85 demonstrated that individuals of African descent have more fast fibers than Caucasians. As previously mentioned, athletes who have more fast fibers may be prone to muscle strain injury

Given how PK Subban played at his peak, he was just an incredibly explosive athlete who dominated I would call "Powerful" and he likely had built his game around the advantage his twitch-fiber muscles gave him.

Unfortunately his trajectory just follows the typical early dropoff of this kind of physionomy.


Aka.. PK Subban was black.

Do you have any educational or professional background in the life sciences?

PK retired at 32 and his play fell off in his late 20’s

The pubhealth article you quoted refers to diminished presence of fast twitch muscle fibers in “older individuals”

Do you think NIH considers late 20’s or early early 30’s “old”?

You are making a lot of massive assumptions and sweeping generalizations wholly unsupported by the articles you quote.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

She's alright, but it's not like other players wives and girlfriends are not of the same standard or higher.

You missed the pun.

 

[Garbageyuk]

nope. Did he win?

Did I say he did? Being a multi time Norris finalist isn’t impressive? That isn’t Norris calibre?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Shortened season Norris.

Seeing as how they basically discount the first part of two of Karlsson's Norris seasons, I don't see how it's much different.

 

[Stylizer1]

Did I say he did? Being a multi time Norris finalist isn’t impressive? That isn’t Norris calibre?

Only people trying to argue how good a borderline all star is would care about being a finalist. You either win it or you don't.

He was selected to the all star game 3 times in 12 seasons.

He played one game in the Olympics even though he was the "best" Defenseman in the NHL the season before..

The seasons after he was given the Norris he finished 14th, 3rd, 14th, 0th, 3rd, 0th, 0th ,0th.

Being out going in Montreal he had the spotlight of an original 6 and milked it for every drop he could.

He had a few good seasons and was awarded the Norris in a shortened season.

 

[Stylizer1]

Seeing as how they basically discount the first part of two of Karlsson's Norris seasons, I don't see how it's much different.

There is an argument Karlsson should have won 1-2 more but Doughty and Keith needed one.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

PK Subban always had a stride like his legs were way ahead of the rest of his body. When those slowed down, nothing else stood out.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Only people trying to argue how good a borderline all star is would care about being a finalist. You either win it or you don't.

He was selected to the all star game 3 times in 12 seasons.

He played one game in the Olympics even though he was the "best" Defenseman in the NHL the season before..

The seasons after he was given the Norris he finished 14th, 3rd, 14th, 0th, 3rd, 0th, 0th ,0th.

Being out going in Montreal he had the spotlight of an original 6 and milked it for every drop he could.

He had a few good seasons and was awarded the Norris in a shortened season.

All this drivel by you is irrelevant. You claimed that he “was never a Norris calibre defenseman”; that is patently false.

He’s also done more good in the world than you ever will in your life - raised 10s of millions of dollars for charities and donated millions of his own money.

Yet, you’re here doubling down on the hating for what? Man I’m glad I don’t think like you. Absolutely pathetic.

 

[Breakers]

He’s a decent analyst

Him and Messier together is painful as hell to watch.

 

[Mack a doodle doo]

IMO it looked like at some point in his career (around the time he left Mtl) he decided to try to bulk up allot/change his ply style, and that negatively affected his game. His mobility dropped off a cliff.

 

[Stylizer1]

All this drivel by you is irrelevant. You claimed that he “was never a Norris calibre defenseman”; that is patently false.

He’s also done more good in the world than you ever will in your life - raised 10s of millions of dollars for charities and donated millions of his own money.

Yet, you’re here doubling down on the hating for what? Man I’m glad I don’t think like you. Absolutely pathetic.

Drivel? I'm talking hockey. I'm sure he is a great man off the ice and has the character to match. That was never supposed to be the argument which you seem to have shifted the discussion to in classic HFB straw man fashion.

What you deem is hating are facts in my books which you have no come back for.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Drivel? I'm talking hockey. I'm sure he is a great man off the ice and has the character to match. That was never supposed to be the argument which you seem to have shifted the discussion to in classic HFB straw man fashion.

What you deem is hating are facts in my books which you have no come back for.

I don't know what argument you think you've won. If you think PK was anything other than a top 10 dman in the league from around 2013-2018 you really have no clue. I wasn't a huge fan of the guy but he could play.

 

[CaptainBenn]

Drivel? I'm talking hockey. I'm sure he is a great man off the ice and has the character to match. That was never supposed to be the argument which you seem to have shifted the discussion to in classic HFB straw man fashion.

What you deem is hating are facts in my books which you have no come back for.

''facts in my book which you have no come back for''

your ''fact'' in question: subban was never a norris caliber D
its a funny (and straight up untrue) fact considering he won a norris
dont care if it was a shortened season

like holy shit, some of you really live in an alternate reality huh

 

[thebeernerd]

I feel like the personality problems were overblown by a couple of players who were rubbed the wrong way by him, notably Max Pacioretty in Montreal. Among the players who are still in New Jersey while he played, you're not going to hear anything negative about him. In particular I think he was an outstanding role model to Jack Hughes, teaching him how to learn the ropes in the NHL as a player with hype behind him.

As for his playing style, I'm sadly not familiar with him outside of his downswing in NJ.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I feel like he was just slightly at the wrong time. Coaches tried to coach away the things that made him effective. Now this type of defenseman is the new meta

Also, because Subban is one of the few players with personality, he was able to make a lot of money off the ice and maybe that started becoming his priority

 

[thebeernerd]

Haha I hope I don't come across as racist so I'll try to source my claims with some science papers:

MANY Black people have Type II twitch fibers which help many black athletes in things like sprints and short powerful burst. The unfortunate downside to this is rapid earlier deterioration in performance, and hyper-tension etc.

These results suggest that individuals of difference races may have different muscle fiber compositions. Ama et al. 85 demonstrated that individuals of African descent have more fast fibers than Caucasians. As previously mentioned, athletes who have more fast fibers may be prone to muscle strain injury

Given how PK Subban played at his peak, he was just an incredibly explosive athlete who dominated I would call "Powerful" and he likely had built his game around the advantage his twitch-fiber muscles gave him.

Unfortunately his trajectory just follows the typical early dropoff of this kind of physionomy.


Aka.. PK Subban was black.

Race science is a kind of science in the same way that hearsay is a kind of evidence

 

[bambamcam4ever]

His game was contingent on speed. Injuries greatly slowed him down, and he had no strengths left to perform as a superstar anymore. No sense in hurting yourself for one-year, minimum-wage contracts.

He was always slow. But he was a very good skater and lost the ability to create separation