Owen Sound Attack 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 2)

[Stellar29]

I could see both Kingston and Oshawa offering something as well. Looking at 07s, Owen Griffen plus 4 picks, or Tyler Hopkins and 4 picks would probably be realistic?

I don't think Hamilton would consider moving O'Brien, and Mississauga has Ivankovic, who is an outstanding goaltender, but a luxury that the Attack don't need.

Guelph would be a great partner, as they have a few very good 07s that probably would help make the team competitive in short order.

I figure both Smith and Guindon would be worth 4-6 decent pics, 2-4ths or so.

Barlow would be one of the premium deadline pieces next year. For me personally, I'd aim higher than Griffen or Hopkins as a center piece in a return package. No way is Hamilton moving O'Brien who has been stellar this season. Ivankovic doesn't make sense from either Owen Sound or Missy's perspective in my opinion. Guelph is also very likely in a rebuilding year next season. At least on paper, there doesn't appear to be as many contenders next year as there were this season. There appear to be less potential buyers going into next season. The wild card I think you could throw out there might be Barrie. They have a lot of young players and a bunch of draft picks. If they arrive next year I could see them pulling the trigger on a move.

 

[AttackBeacher]

Barlow would be one of the premium deadline pieces next year. For me personally, I'd aim higher than Griffen or Hopkins as a center piece in a return package. No way is Hamilton moving O'Brien who has been stellar this season. Ivankovic doesn't make sense from either Owen Sound or Missy's perspective in my opinion. Guelph is also very likely in a rebuilding year next season. At least on paper, there doesn't appear to be as many contenders next year as there were this season. There appear to be less potential buyers going into next season. The wild card I think you could throw out there might be Barrie. They have a lot of young players and a bunch of draft picks. If they arrive next year I could see them pulling the trigger on a move.

Agree for sure, what was Donovan, 8 picks? Beck was a good, maybe not great 07 and 3 picks? I think we can get picks from the overages, and a few from a Barlow trade, but a player is harder to get and should be a priority. If it was a straight up pick trade for Barlow, what are you looking at, 8 or 9?

Your right about Barrie, a Moses and 3/4 high picks seem to be right in line with that.

 

[Stellar29]

Agree for sure, what was Donovan, 8 picks? Beck was a good, maybe not great 07 and 3 picks? I think we can get picks from the overages, and a few from a Barlow trade, but a player is harder to get and should be a priority. If it was a straight up pick trade for Barlow, what are you looking at, 8 or 9?

Your right about Barrie, a Moses and 3/4 high picks seem to be right in line with that.

It's hard to really know what the market prices will be next season. I assume this year's prices are more of an aberration with many buyers and few sellers. There appears to be many sellers and fewer buyers going into next season. A player of Barlow's stature should fetch a good return regardless but I don't think the Donovan comparison is necessarily fair(return was 2x2nds, 4x3rds, 2x4ths). Something in the neighborhood of 6 picks I think is more realistic based on previous seasons, 3x2nds and 3x3rds or thereabouts. I'll admit I'm likely not the best judge on such things though. I certainly don't expect the OA market to be nearly as robust next year. Top end OAs going for two picks is probably more in line with historical prices vs the OAs moved for 5 picks this past year. I'd consider Guindon to be more of a front line OA, you could possibly make a case for Smith as well though I'm not sure you'd be able to make as strong of an argument.

 

[AttackBeacher]

It's hard to really know what the market prices will be next season. I assume this year's prices are more of an aberration with many buyers and few sellers. There appears to be many sellers and fewer buyers going into next season. A player of Barlow's stature should fetch a good return regardless but I don't think the Donovan comparison is necessarily fair(return was 2x2nds, 4x3rds, 2x4ths). Something in the neighborhood of 6 picks I think is more realistic based on previous seasons, 3x2nds and 3x3rds or thereabouts. I'll admit I'm likely not the best judge on such things though. I certainly don't expect the OA market to be nearly as robust next year. Top end OAs going for two picks is probably more in line with historical prices vs the OAs moved for 5 picks this past year. I'd consider Guindon to be more of a front line OA, you could possibly make a case for Smith as well though I'm not sure you'd be able to make as strong of an argument.

The thing about Smith is you can't find guys like him on tree's. 6'4, very good skater, physical, won a championship. For me he would be better then someone like Mancini, who went for a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

[Stellar29]

The thing about Smith is you can't find guys like him on tree's. 6'4, very good skater, physical, won a championship. For me he would be better then someone like Mancini, who went for a 2nd and a 3rd.

Just spit balling but Missy only has Leskovar returning as an 04 OA. Smith would make a lot of sense for them the way they play hockey. Not a lot of alternative destinations for teams seemingly looking to contend with OA openings or OA upgrades needed. That likely means the market will be suppressed in value on return. Might be a better player than Mancini but may not see the same kind of value Mancini brought this year in next season's market landscape.

 

[ktownfan]

Smith is 6'4, odd times physical and has cvertainly won a championship, however skating isn't his forte. Kid is a hard worker with his training, so he will most likely improve his feet.
He will not be in Owen Sound next year, that is for sure. Had to be talked in to coming there. If Anaheim believes in him, he will be in the AHL next year.

 

[Spills]

Just spit balling but Missy only has Leskovar returning as an 04 OA. Smith would make a lot of sense for them the way they play hockey. Not a lot of alternative destinations for teams seemingly looking to contend with OA openings or OA upgrades needed. That likely means the market will be suppressed in value on return. Might be a better player than Mancini but may not see the same kind of value Mancini brought this year in next season's market landscape.

Who do you think OS should keep for OA next year?

 

[Stellar29]

Who do you think OS should keep for OA next year?

The options are:
Forwards Hookey, Guindon, Stewart, Petrovsky
Defence Jordan, Steen, Smith
Goalie Votary

Safe to rule out Petrovsky being an import. Stewart, Votary and Steen all likely move on/graduate. That leaves Hookey, Guindon, Jordan and Smith. Hookey and Jordan won't fetch much so in my opinion they are more valuable to the Attack than to an acquiring team. I think you try and get fair market value for one of Guidon and Smith at the start of the year and focus on dealing the other towards the deadline unless you get a fair price in preseason for both. Hookey and Jordan could fetch a return at the deadline if they take strides during their OA season but you'd probably get a Lawrence type 8th round pick deal at best if you move one in preseason. I would expect Jordan to finish his career in Owen Sound personally. He seems like somebody that would likely join the leadership group next season and you need quality leaders on a younger roster. He's somebody who shows up consistently and works hard which helps show the way for the young players.

Ultimately, I would keep Hookey and Jordan. There would be OAs out there you could bring in on the cheap to fill the third spot from teams with surplus or contenders looking to make upgrades and rehoming their extra OA. Guindon and Smith should fetch value and in a rebuild scenario you have to get what you can for players who won't factor into future seasons.

 

[Millpond]

I personally don't think Dale DeGray is going anywhere. It wouldn't make any sense to let Dale run this year's draft and then part ways. If you were going to make a change you'd have done it by now so the next guy can take "his guys" in the draft. It would be pretty awkward to bring in a new GM post draft which presents the biggest opportunity to influence change on a roster.

The summer presents an opportunity to reset. This feels a lot like the Ryan McGill situation where you get a strong coach to take over a rebuilding team and develop the next wave. This going to be a much younger team next season and essentially presents a blank canvass for a coach to instruct and develop his systems and influence the culture and play style they want to run. It's really paramount that they get the right people behind the bench. The one quibble with DeGray is he's had more misses than hits on coaching hires. I don't know exactly how things played out in the summer but it seemed pretty obvious DeGray wanted to move on from Walters and whether or not ownership stepped in to block it or DeGray chose to try and make it work it was a matter of when, not if, once the season started that Walters got the boot. It seemed pretty clear there was a very short leash on Walters when Rumble got hired. Ultimately, that feels like the biggest mistake of this past season.

I'm not entirely sure this can be turned around in a single season. The 06 group is what it is, there's not really any other draft pieces from that group that would seemingly join the team and make any impact. Letourneau is going the USHL/NCAA route and would be the only exception but about a 0.0001% chance of happening. The 07 group is also likely what it is, they got Crawford, Nansi, Smith and Koprowski but no other drafted player from that group really stands out after moving Addy and Prud'homme committing to the NCAA route. The 07/08 draft groups development will be the deciding factor on when the next competitive window opens in my opinion. They should grab a good player at #7 but have no picks until the third round after that. I wonder if you could flip a future 2nd(likely have to add a sweetener) to a team like Brantford or Missy, maybe Oshawa, who may trade you their 2nd to add a pick that could be used in trade next year as the player they would draft with that pick can't be traded when they are in the midst of a championship caliber run. There's going to be a bunch of grads off the roster at the end of this season and it will likely be a season next year where you could take four 16 year old players.

The Attack haven't picked as high as #7 overall in a long time. There appears to be a number of higher end forward options that project to be available at that spot which happens to coincide with a number of forward grads for the Attack. Getting a building block type of player with the first pick ofcwould definitely go a long way in rejuvenating the fan base. This season has left a sour taste in many mouths this year. A solid coaching hire and a promising group of 08 players would go a long way to rebuilding hope and optimism around the Bayshore.

What's the possibility of getting a 2nd round in time for the draft, as part of a bigger deal, in ,say December ?

Who do you think OS should keep for OA next year?

Taos and Hookey for sure .

 

[Millpond]

The options are:
Forwards Hookey, Guindon, Stewart, Petrovsky
Defence Jordan, Steen, Smith
Goalie Votary

Safe to rule out Petrovsky being an import. Stewart, Votary and Steen all likely move on/graduate. That leaves Hookey, Guindon, Jordan and Smith. Hookey and Jordan won't fetch much so in my opinion they are more valuable to the Attack than to an acquiring team. I think you try and get fair market value for one of Guidon and Smith at the start of the year and focus on dealing the other towards the deadline unless you get a fair price in preseason for both. Hookey and Jordan could fetch a return at the deadline if they take strides during their OA season but you'd probably get a Lawrence type 8th round pick deal at best if you move one in preseason. I would expect Jordan to finish his career in Owen Sound personally. He seems like somebody that would likely join the leadership group next season and you need quality leaders on a younger roster. He's somebody who shows up consistently and works hard which helps show the way for the young players.

Ultimately, I would keep Hookey and Jordan. There would be OAs out there you could bring in on the cheap to fill the third spot from teams with surplus or contenders looking to make upgrades and rehoming their extra OA. Guindon and Smith should fetch value and in a rebuild scenario you have to get what you can for players who won't factor into future seasons.

I'm not sure you'd necessarily want 3 OA on a rebuilding team . They got a large group of young dmen now who need to develop.

And a few forwards ( 1st rd, 3rd rd??) as well, we can hope for 2 serviceable imports, and they've done OK in the U18 draft as well.

 

[Stellar29]

What's the possibility of getting a 2nd round in time for the draft, as part of a bigger deal, in ,say December ?




Taos and Hookey for sure .

Are you suggesting a two part trade? lol. Those don't happen in the OHL anymore...(sarcasm). Always a possibility but not sure that's DeGray's style.

 

[Stellar29]

I'm not sure you'd necessarily want 3 OA on a rebuilding team . They got a large group of young dmen now who need to develop.

And a few forwards ( 1st rd, 3rd rd??) as well, we can hope for 2 serviceable imports, and they've done OK in the U18 draft as well.

That's a great point. There's certainly value in an opportunity for a young player vs a roster spot for a marginal vet. If Hookey and Jordan are our OAs for the season I'd be totally happy with that.

As a side note, I had totally forgot about the upcoming import draft. Boy could that swing the fortunes of the team's future with a couple of young adds that can grow with the rest of the team.

Personally, based on the picks they have on hand, I'd go forward at #7 and then use one of the 3rds on a D and the other on another forward. If they can't grab a 2nd rounder I'd look for another forward with the 4th rounder. Use the U18 for a depth D add. Not really any need to take a goalie early on this year with an incumbent tandem of a 17 and 18 year old. I'd focus on taking players with my first four picks that will play or at least have the potential to make the roster vs a goalie who may not factor in for two seasons.

 

[Millpond]

That's a great point. There's certainly value in an opportunity for a young player vs a roster spot for a marginal vet. If Hookey and Jordan are our OAs for the season I'd be totally happy with that.

As a side note, I had totally forgot about the upcoming import draft. Boy could that swing the fortunes of the team's future with a couple of young adds that can grow with the rest of the team.

Personally, based on the picks they have on hand, I'd go forward at #7 and then use one of the 3rds on a D and the other on another forward. If they can't grab a 2nd rounder I'd look for another forward with the 4th rounder. Use the U18 for a depth D add. Not really any need to take a goalie early on this year with an incumbent tandem of a 17 and 18 year old. I'd focus on taking players with my first four picks that will play or at least have the potential to make the roster vs a goalie who may not factor in for two seasons.

Adding to forward depth is more important.

 

[ktownfan]

JOrdan has been told hes one of the OA's, Hookey wants to leave, in my opinion you need 3 OA's. They have the benefit of experience. Even a 3rd line OA is valuable as long as they are a leader. Need a OA group to lead the younger players. You will never get another OA group of the caliber you have this year.

 

[Stellar29]

JOrdan has been told hes one of the OA's, Hookey wants to leave, in my opinion you need 3 OA's. They have the benefit of experience. Even a 3rd line OA is valuable as long as they are a leader. Need a OA group to lead the younger players. You will never get another OA group of the caliber you have this year.

I don't think it has to be exclusively OA players as leaders. The Attack will have a number of 05 players, 19 year old vets, next year as well who can take on some of the leadership roles. If the team was mostly 16 and 17 year olds I would definitely agree that you want a full 3 OA compliment but I don't feel that's required next year. The playing time is likely more important to development of the youth movement than the leadership a third OA might add in my opinion. I think preseason will tell you what you need to know in terms of what OAs you want/keep and how many you might need. If they don't get four 16 year olds to earn a roster spot out of camp or any other players from the 07 draft then that can change the dynamics and allow for the third OA. With the amount of grads at the end of this year, it wouldn't shock me to see a FA walk on either.

We can't afford to have rookies sitting for 50 plus games in stands next season. That doesn't do anybody any good. I don't mind the idea of a rotation in and out of the line up but sitting for months at a time is brutal for development.

 

[Spills]

JOrdan has been told hes one of the OA's, Hookey wants to leave, in my opinion you need 3 OA's. They have the benefit of experience. Even a 3rd line OA is valuable as long as they are a leader. Need a OA group to lead the younger players. You will never get another OA group of the caliber you have this year.

With what 7 OA's I find it hard to believe there is any commitments being made right now. Yes you need 3 in my opinion.

 

[AttackBeacher]

We can't afford to have rookies sitting for 50 plus games in stands next season. That doesn't do anybody any good. I don't mind the idea of a rotation in and out of the line up but sitting for months at a time is brutal for development.

Thats another bizarre aspect to this year, there's been almost a fear of playing rookies despite the fact that when they are out there, they do fine. To your point, I don't see much of a difference at this point between Madden Steen and Gabe Smith. I know Madden isn't the same player since the Erie game, just because he's older doesnt mean hes better then others, but the coaches seem absolutely scared to death to play anyone on the back end with a young birth date.

Thats never really been an issue in Owen Sound before.

To your overage point, the overages next year for me at Smith, Guindon and Hookey. Call me optimistic but I don't know why you couldn't trade Jordan for a decent return, he's not that different from Hislop who got a few decent pics for North Bay.

 

[Stellar29]

Thats another bizarre aspect to this year, there's been almost a fear of playing rookies despite the fact that when they are out there, they do fine. To your point, I don't see much of a difference at this point between Madden Steen and Gabe Smith. I know Madden isn't the same player since the Erie game, just because he's older doesnt mean hes better then others, but the coaches seem absolutely scared to death to play anyone on the back end with a young birth date.

Thats never really been an issue in Owen Sound before.

To your overage point, the overages next year for me at Smith, Guindon and Hookey. Call me optimistic but I don't know why you couldn't trade Jordan for a decent return, he's not that different from Hislop who got a few decent pics for North Bay.

I don't really get it personally. They played the rookie forwards up and down the line up pretty much all year, which I loved and thought their play warranted it at times. Nobody sat out for extended periods of time. The defense on the other hand saw the two rookies only draw in to 11 games each and never really got to play in a stretch of games beyond 2-3 at a time. Practice has value but you can't replicate game experience 100% for those rookies. I don't love 11F and 7D but sometimes you have to create opportunity where health/suspensions/performance etc don't. The Attack didn't really suffer any significant injury on the blueline this year which didn't create opportunities organically where as last season they had a few extended absences.

I like Jordan. I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are on what his value on the market might be, but maybe I'm wrong. I think objectively Smith holds more trade value, likely significantly more value. Maybe you could get a 5th round pick for Jordan? Reality is the type of undersized defensive defenseman Jordan is are fairly common. I love what he brings for Attack blueline and the leadership qualities he possesses that I'd much rather keep him than get a middling return in trade. He has a fantastic story as a 12th round pick who has scratched and clawed his way into a pretty darn good junior hockey career and is a great example of the message Dale DeGray always preaches about how little stock he puts into where you got picked vs what you can do out on the ice. The best player(s) will find a way onto the roster.

 

[PensFan101]

I don't really get it personally. They played the rookie forwards up and down the line up pretty much all year, which I loved and thought their play warranted it at times. Nobody sat out for extended periods of time. The defense on the other hand saw the two rookies only draw in to 11 games each and never really got to play in a stretch of games beyond 2-3 at a time. Practice has value but you can't replicate game experience 100% for those rookies. I don't love 11F and 7D but sometimes you have to create opportunity where health/suspensions/performance etc don't. The Attack didn't really suffer any significant injury on the blueline this year which didn't create opportunities organically where as last season they had a few extended absences.

I like Jordan. I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are on what his value on the market might be, but maybe I'm wrong. I think objectively Smith holds more trade value, likely significantly more value. Maybe you could get a 5th round pick for Jordan? Reality is the type of undersized defensive defenseman Jordan is are fairly common. I love what he brings for Attack blueline and the leadership qualities he possesses that I'd much rather keep him than get a middling return in trade. He has a fantastic story as a 12th round pick who has scratched and clawed his way into a pretty darn good junior hockey career and is a great example of the message Dale DeGray always preaches about how little stock he puts into where you got picked vs what you can do out on the ice. The best player(s) will find a way onto the roster.

Yeah I would 100% keep Jordan over Smith. We paid a pretty penny for him and I'm sure other teams will view Smith as valuable thanks to the championship pedigree. I also think Jordan is a better fit on the blue line next year, as he's the top returning points guy and the kind of player that can ride shotgun on whoever steps up to take the reigns on the powerplay.

I think there's a big opportunity for a guy like Ethier to explode next season, or if the incoming import has an offensive slant.

 

[Stellar29]

Yeah I would 100% keep Jordan over Smith. We paid a pretty penny for him and I'm sure other teams will view Smith as valuable thanks to the championship pedigree. I also think Jordan is a better fit on the blue line next year, as he's the top returning points guy and the kind of player that can ride shotgun on whoever steps up to take the reigns on the powerplay.

I think there's a big opportunity for a guy like Ethier to explode next season, or if the incoming import has an offensive slant.

Hard to say what Ethier will be. I agree he has skill with the potential to explode but we've had such a small sample size with him this year. I like his skating and his puck movement. He showed off a good shot in the preseason. He's pretty solid at 6'.0" and 187lbs. Solid tool kit to work with so I'll be very interested in seeing what he can do with a real opportunity next season.

I'm thinking the D group will look something like:
Jordan(OA - L) - Petrovski(05 - L)
G.Smith(07 - L) - Rogers(06 - R)
Ethier(06 - L) - import/08 D

I'm still intrigued by what Rogers might be. He's a late birthday and I think he could still breakout, more so with the offense. He skates well and can rip the puck. He competes hard too. A good offseason and continuing to add weight to his frame could make for a really interesting season for him in what will be his draft year.

Gabe Smith is also really intriguing to me. He's obviously got size and reach but he moves very well. He plays a pretty simple game but I could see him developing into a lock down D with time. He has a really interesting tool kit. He scored a bit before coming into the OHL as well so wouldn't shock me to see him add offensive elements to his game once he's more comfortable.

Overall the D group projects to be young and predominantly left hand shots. Petrovski has played his offside a fair bit this season and done well. I expect he will get the biggest load increase next year and likely get the PP1 QB role, at least to start. The import D or 08D being right handed would help balance out the handedness of the pairings. Jordan and Petrovski being paired together can take on the tougher assignments to help shelter some of the growing pains expected of the youth playing behind them. Honestly, I don't hate that mix on paper.

 

[JRHockeyBUZZZ]

I apologize for this, as typically I never like to take shots at the people that help present the OHL & Jr Hockey in general. However the colour commentator in Owen Sound Adrian Mousseau . Should be absolutely embarrassed for his comments on the brodcast during the first intermission. Calling out Carter George saying he needs to make a save on a Grade A scoring chance from Michael Misa. George made 16 saves in the first many of which high quality chances. He’s a 17 year old rookie who’s played 60 games this season. As someone who enjoys listening to the critique of broadcasters I feel like Mr Mousseau should A) Strap on the pads and play one period. Or B) take a closer look at the play and figure out where to place the blame..

Sorry for the rant.

 

[nelli27]

I apologize for this, as typically I never like to take shots at the people that help present the OHL & Jr Hockey in general. However the colour commentator in Owen Sound Adrian Mousseau . Should be absolutely embarrassed for his comments on the brodcast during the first intermission. Calling out Carter George saying he needs to make a save on a Grade A scoring chance from Michael Misa. George made 16 saves in the first many of which high quality chances. He’s a 17 year old rookie who’s played 60 games this season. As someone who enjoys listening to the critique of broadcasters I feel like Mr Mousseau should A) Strap on the pads and play one period. Or B) take a closer look at the play and figure out where to place the blame..

Sorry for the rant.

There's a kid who occasionally fills in for Mousseau. I forget his name (Spencer??), he has a Mohawk, and he's great. No nerves, knowledgeable, and he does a much better job. Mark M is great on the play by play.
Like to see the Attack win tonight.

 

[OHL4Life]

I apologize for this, as typically I never like to take shots at the people that help present the OHL & Jr Hockey in general. However the colour commentator in Owen Sound Adrian Mousseau . Should be absolutely embarrassed for his comments on the brodcast during the first intermission. Calling out Carter George saying he needs to make a save on a Grade A scoring chance from Michael Misa. George made 16 saves in the first many of which high quality chances. He’s a 17 year old rookie who’s played 60 games this season. As someone who enjoys listening to the critique of broadcasters I feel like Mr Mousseau should A) Strap on the pads and play one period. Or B) take a closer look at the play and figure out where to place the blame..

Sorry for the rant.

one of the worst combinations because the play by play guy is the best in the business, and the colour guy is the worst in the business. why does very player have a french last name? i think he's even tried to make zhugin in windsor french, and hes from russia.

 

[PensFan101]

I'm glad this season is over, one of the most disappointing I can ever remember, but very sad that the OHL careers of our three overagers end this way.

Feels just like yesterday those three plus lawrence had us all optimistic. Instead it's back to back sweeps.

 

[JRHockeyBUZZZ]

one of the worst combinations because the play by play guy is the best in the business, and the colour guy is the worst in the business. why does very player have a french last name? i think he's even tried to make zhugin in windsor french, and hes from russia.

I Agree Mark is fantastic & Up there for the best in the league. I have never seen a Colour guy so Nervous.. i guess than Adrian.. Every time he's putting together a sentence it seems there's too many wheels spinning and its back tracked or stuttered over. Maybe he thinks french is the native language of Russia? lol