Player Discussion Owen Power, D (1st overall, 2021) Calder Finalist

[Fjordy]

Some good points, and he probably would help on the defensive side, but we are ultimately talking about defensive upgrades on a very young Jokiharju, Will Butcher and Colin Miller. So it isn't like the bar has been set very high.

My concerns with Murphy is that he has never been a very heads-up puck mover. I think a two-way defender with some Defensive ability would compliment Dahlin much better than a guy who's main focus is clear the puck.

I am afraid a Murphy-Dahlin pairing may neuter a big part of Dahlin's game if he doesn't have a partner that can react and keep up with him offensively.

Yes, this is actually reasonable. Unfortunately a guy like Brett Pesce will probably be unavailable or cost half a kingdom.

Then probably is Matt Roy this guy, he's above average defensively, but he also seems to be better than Murphy with the puck. The alternative could be Jeff Petry, but he hasn't looked too good this season, I would prefer Roy.

 

[Irie]

I probably just didn't notice because I didn't pay attention, but we also know that Dahlin also has experience playing RD, but I think Granato doesn't want him to play RD for some reason that we don't know about. There are guys in the league like Weegar and Brodie who play on the first pair but play on the other side. But I want to emphasize that we need not just a top 4 RD who will play with Dahlin, I think we need an experienced player who has been in the NHL for many years, who knows how to play those 20 minutes per game in difficult situations. Neither Jokiharyu, nor even Samuelsson, has yet been related to this. They have to learn and progress and maybe in the future they will become such players.

I agree and wrote that out in responding to another post a few posts up.

Having smart, quality vets to mentor the young guys is invaluable. There are so many little tricks and nuances guys learn over a lot of seasons, and this team has been lacking vets to impart that type of knowledge to the current crop of youngsters.

Coaching staffs typically focus on discussing systems and some are ex players that can give insight, but that is not a replacement for being paired with a partner that can talk to you and teach on the bench between shifts.

I would love to see Adams procure someone like that to play with Power when he comes into the league.

 

[Fjordy]

I agree and wrote that out in responding to another post a few posts up.

Having smart, quality vets to mentor the young guys is invaluable. There are so many little tricks and nuances guys learn over a lot of seasons, and this team has been lacking vets to impart that type of knowledge to the current crop of youngsters.

Coaching staffs typically focus on discussing systems and some are ex players that can give insight, but that is not a replacement for being paired with a partner that can talk to you and teach on the bench between shifts.

I would love to see Adams procure someone like that to play with Power when he comes into the league.

I think Pysyk would be not the worst option, the only thing is he is not a very physical player. I just don't know, if Adams could get two top 4 RDs at once, which I don't believe, then who would be our third RD would probably gone one of Joki or Pysyk.

 

[Irie]

Yes, this is actually reasonable. Unfortunately a guy like Brett Pesce will probably be unavailable or cost half a kingdom.

Then probably is Matt Roy this guy, he's above average defensively, but he also seems to be better than Murphy with the puck. The alternative could be Jeff Petry, but he hasn't looked too good this season, I would prefer Roy.View attachment 509756 View attachment 509758

The last couple of years, whenever Weber has been out Petry's defensive metrics severely fall. He still puts up decent offense, picking up more PP time, but playing top D pair, he struggles.

Add that his contract is pretty bad and his age may be a big factor in his poor play this season, and I would think twice before taking on that contract. I don't see the upside as being anywhere near the risk.

Roy would be a nice add, but with Walker out for the year, and probably some long term concern after his injury, would they be likely to move him?

I know they have some nice young RHD in Clarke and Durzi, but the also have Bjornfot playing top 6 minutes, and for a team looking to compete probably sooner than Buffalo, that would be a very green D corp.

 

[Fjordy]

The last couple of years, whenever Weber has been out Petry's defensive metrics severely fall. He still puts up decent offense, picking up more PP time, but playing top D pair, he struggles.

Add that his contract is pretty bad and his age may be a big factor in his poor play this season, and I would think twice before taking on that contract. I don't see the upside as being anywhere near the risk.

Roy would be a nice add, but with Walker out for the year, and probably some long term concern after his injury, would they be likely to move him?

I know they have some nice young RHD in Clarke and Durzi, but the also have Bjornfot playing top 6 minutes, and for a team looking to compete probably sooner than Buffalo, that would be a very green D corp.

I don't really care much about Petry contract as it's not for 7 years and we have problems to reach the floor but yes Petry is probably average defensively and maybe he wouldn't be worth much due to his age and contract, as well as not the best game in defense. In theory, Petry could have paired with Power for minutes of the second pair, and Roy paired with Dahlin. It's actually a lot easier to find a player who is good defensively but not as good with the puck than it is to find a player who is above average defensively but can also handle the puck well, of course there are a lot of them in the league but they are mostly not available.

I didn't know Walker was out for a year, that's not good. I also don't know how much LA will be willing to trade Roy. Doughty looks great, Durzi they love, Clarke is about to break into the league. Roy has two years left on his contract after this season, I would at least kick tires.

 

[Irie]

I think Pysyk would be not the worst option, the only thing is he is not a very physical player. I just don't know, if Adams could get two top 4 RDs at once, which I don't believe, then who would be our third RD would probably gone one of Joki or Pysyk.

Well there is no guarantee Pysyk re-signs anyway, so he may be gone regardless.

The trick will be managing the timeline. Sign too many mediocre players to long term contracts now and you create a logjam and possibly lose quality prospects to waivers.

With the emergence of Samuelsson and Fitzgerald this year and the coming of Power and Laaksonen soon, Adams may also face a numbers game in the near future.

 

[Fjordy]

Well there is no guarantee Pysyk re-signs anyway, so he may be gone regardless.

The trick will be managing the timeline. Sign too many mediocre players to long term contracts now and you create a logjam and possibly lose quality prospects to waivers.

With the emergence of Samuelsson and Fitzgerald this year and the coming of Power and Laaksonen soon, Adams may also face a numbers game in the near future.

I understand, but if they don't trade Pysyk at TDL, I think then they will be sure that they will re-sign him in advance, I don't think they will make this mistake again (Ullmark).

Fitzgerald, and even more so Laaksonen, is not yet the answer and may not be. You probably don't like the way Fitzgerald handles the puck, even worse than Murphy. Laaksonen is a weird guy in general, he's than PP QB, he still has some warts, I want to see him in the NHL this season, but I still doubt his future in Buffalo. I'm not against competition, but they need to understand where to move in this direction.

Providing perhaps two of his most important players in the future with good cover should be a priority, if Adams does not understand this or does not, I will be disappointed.

 

[Irie]

I don't really care much about Petry contract as it's not for 7 years and we have problems to reach the floor but yes Petry is probably average defensively and maybe he wouldn't be worth much due to his age and contract, as well as not the best game in defense. In theory, Petry could have paired with Power for minutes of the second pair, and Roy paired with Dahlin. It's actually a lot easier to find a player who is good defensively but not as good with the puck than it is to find a player who is above average defensively but can also handle the puck well, of course there are a lot of them in the league but they are mostly not available.

I didn't know Walker was out for a year, that's not good. I also don't know how much LA will be willing to trade Roy. Doughty looks great, Durzi they love, Clarke is about to break into the league. Roy has two years left on his contract after this season, I would at least kick tires.

Yeah, unfortunately, Walker blew out his knee, I think it was ACL and MCL.

Petry is 34 now and seems to be dropping off substantially. Montreal fans are trying to trade him in ever proposal and are blaming the situation in Montreal for his poor play, but there aren't many D that don't start to drastically decline in their early 3os, and most D are out of the league by 35.

For perspective, there are only 6 defensemen that are over 35 currently in the league, and only 3 playing after 36:

Goligoski(36)
Burns(36)
Suter(36)
Giordano(38)
Andy Greene(38)
Chara(44).

Petry is signed until he is 37.

I would not be surprised if he is actually even worse next season than he has bee this year, regardless of where he plays.

 

[Irie]

I understand, but if they don't trade Pysyk at TDL, I think then they will be sure that they will re-sign him in advance, I don't think they will make this mistake again (Ullmark).

Fitzgerald, and even more so Laaksonen, is not yet the answer and may not be. You probably don't like the way Fitzgerald handles the puck, even worse than Murphy. Laaksonen is a weird guy in general, he's than PP QB, he still has some warts, I want to see him in the NHL this season, but I still doubt his future in Buffalo. I'm not against competition, but they need to understand where to move in this direction.

Providing perhaps two of his most important players in the future with good cover should be a priority, if Adams does not understand this or does not, I will be disappointed.

Yeah, I am not sold on Fitzgerald at all, but he's been a nice upgrade on the defensive side over Butcher and Miller, so I think we have all been excited

And Fitzgerald is young, so nerves and inexperience can often explain rushing the play. I expect he still has some room before he hits his ceiling.

The team also has too many forwards that are going to require waivers, so Adams may have to move some promising young guys in a big package deal to bring in a legitimate upgrade on the blueline.

Hopefully Adams can make a solid trade or two and not risk losing guys the way Botts did with Hagel in the last roster squeeze.

 

[Fjordy]

Yeah, unfortunately, Walker blew out his knee, I think it was ACL and MCL.

Petry is 34 now and seems to be dropping off substantially. Montreal fans are trying to trade him in ever proposal and are blaming the situation in Montreal for his poor play, but there aren't many D that don't start to drastically decline in their early 3os, and most D are out of the league by 35.

For perspective, there are only 6 defensemen that are over 35 currently in the league, and only 3 playing after 36:

Goligoski(36)
Burns(36)
Suter(36)
Giordano(38)
Andy Greene(38)
Chara(44).

Petry is signed until he is 37.

I would not be surprised if he is actually even worse next season than he has bee this year, regardless of where he plays.

I agree this is a risk, but we have good analysts for this. Many questions can be asked. Why did Petry's game get worse? Is it just age? Maybe because he plays too big a role in a bad team? Is it due to a bad coach? What will his numbers be at the end of the season with a new coach? And they will have to answer all this and other questions and weigh the pros and cons. Just like I explained, if you don't like Murphy type players who aren't very good with the puck, then finding a good top 4 RD will be a challenge, not only for Adams, but even for me. There are a lot of decent RDs in the league who can play 18-20 minutes a game, play good defense, but maybe they won't be as good with the puck, that's not the biggest problem for me. I think they will still give us more good than harm.

 

[Fjordy]

Yeah, I am not sold on Fitzgerald at all, but he's been a nice upgrade on the defensive side over Butcher and Miller, so I think we have all been excited

And Fitzgerald is young, so nerves and inexperience can often explain rushing the play. I expect he still has some room before he hits his ceiling.

The team also has too many forwards that are going to require waivers, so Adams may have to move some promising young guys in a big package deal to bring in a legitimate upgrade on the blueline.

Hopefully Adams can make a solid trade or two and not risk losing guys the way Botts did with Hagel in the last roster squeeze.

Fitz isn't that young, by the way, he'll be 25 in a couple of days. But it seems to me that it becomes obvious that he needs a slightly different partner who can move the puck.

We have a huge amount of assets, after TDL there will be even more picks. I think Adams could very well get a good top 4 RD without giving up a lot of futures. Futures are important, but Dahlin and Power's development is more important.

 

[Matt Ress]

We don't necessarily need a guy to move the puck. I think what's missing is solid d play and some sandpaper

 

[Fjordy]

We don't necessarily need a guy to move the puck. I think what's missing is solid d play and some sandpaper

I agree, it would just be a nice bonus if the guy could play without wooden hands.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

We need our own version of Chris Tanev.

 

[Chainshot]

We need our own version of Chris Tanev.

Tanev-lite is Stecher.

 

[Fjordy]

We need our own version of Chris Tanev.

In fact, I was just thinking about Tanev. Calgary, knowing about his constant injuries, was not afraid to offer him this contract. They probably studied this problem well and did not see a system in it, now Tanev does not get injured.
In fact, I was just thinking about Tanev. Calgary, knowing about his constant injuries, was not afraid to offer him this contract. They probably studied this problem well and did not see a system in it, now Tanev does not get injured.

I think Murphy, Roy and Adam Larsson are the best candidates for this role. Maybe David Savard, but unless he finally fell off the cliff.

 

[Fjordy]

Tanev-lite is Stecher.

Perhaps Stecher could really be an interesting option and he has already played with Power, altough a little.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

Tanev-lite is Stecher.

Stecher would be a perfectly competent replacement for 2-3 years at like 4M a season.

 

[Chainshot]

Stecher would be a perfectly competent replacement for 2-3 years at like 4M a season.

Your contract estimate is about double what he should be making.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Stecher does fine in Detroit against terrible competition for short periods of time. If they bring him in to play on the 1st or 2nd paring he's going to be badly exposed.

 

[Chainshot]

Stecher does fine in Detroit against terrible competition for short periods of time. If they bring him in to play on the 1st or 2nd paring he's going to be badly exposed.

Look at his numbers in Vancouver. The idea is to have a partner for Power. Power isn't diving into first pairing minutes immediately.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Look at his numbers in Vancouver. The idea is to have a partner for Power. Power isn't diving into first pairing minutes immediately.

Yeah, he was better several years ago; I'm not sure those days are coming back. At a minimum I don't see how he's an upgrade for the 3rd pair over Pysyk.

 

[Fjordy]

Stecher does fine in Detroit against terrible competition for short periods of time. If they bring him in to play on the 1st or 2nd paring he's going to be badly exposed.

Look at his numbers in Vancouver. The idea is to have a partner for Power. Power isn't diving into first pairing minutes immediately.

We do not have to load Power - Stecher with difficult minutes, or rather, we do not need this at all.

Dahlin - Murphy/Roy - first pair to take more minutes
Samuelsson - Jokiharju - balance the time of these two pairs so they don't play too much and too little
Power - Stecher/Pysyk - balance the time of these two pairs so they don't play too much and too little

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah, he was better several years ago; I'm not sure those days are coming back. At a minimum I don't see how he's an upgrade for the 3rd pair over Pysyk.

Last year he was good defensively in Detroit on a rebuilding team. Not several years ago, just last year.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

Your contract estimate is about double what he should be making.

Yeah, well factor he's in a better situation, with a team with cap, a competent front office, and having to come to Buffalo. I think in certain cases you'd have to overpay to bring in quality here. We're not a near playoff team.