Post-Game Talk: Ovi's Mad: Pens win 4-3

Fordy

Registered User
May 28, 2008
26,906
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1. I was referring to PP line ups, that after practicing something, the coaches need a game to see if it works especially with fewer games to deadline to go.
2. I used Adams as an extreme example. If it were any player who isn't on either PP flying during a game now, it'd be the same thing. the team needs to see what they can do with what they have to know what they need.


1. We'll just have agree to disagree.
2. I agree with you there.
3. Yeah, I know. Spaling and Winnik shoot left, Downie shoots right.
4. I always assumed that had to do with Bennett and Sutter having so much chemistry that he fits well on either side, he's always been on the RW otherwise hasn't he?



He's already been sat.

did you watch the game last night?
 

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
Feb 19, 2013
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that adams just sat the game before losing a roster player and that winnick completely replaces adams only "utility"

The problem is that logic doesn't apply to Adams, but if Johnston doesn't play him I'll build a shrine. It will be crappy and half-assed but a shrine it will be.
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
75,617
22,147
Pittsburgh
The problem is that logic doesn't apply to Adams, but if Johnston doesn't play him I'll build a shrine. It will be crappy and half-assed but a shrine it will be.

the addition of Winnik is the only reason I have any hope of Adams sitting.
 

systemsgo

fire mj
Apr 24, 2014
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ok well bennett was on neither of sutter's line or his proper wing so that's an example right there

even dan bylsma scratched adams in the playoffs. i see no reason that he'll play now

Yeah, I had just edited my post before you replied. I wasn't sure what the game comment was in reference to.

So has BB. Five times as much.

BB was sat for a different reason as Adams was. And BB's happened to be unfortunately lengthened due to a 2 game shut out by the Pens, Adams was possibly cut short due to Sill being traded. It's not the same thing.
 

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
Feb 19, 2013
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the addition of Winnik is the only reason I have any hope of Adams sitting.

I had that hope in the off season... maybe they finally push Adams out but I wouldn't get my hopes up because this reached insanity territory a long time ago and it's continued under a new regime. The sad thing is I think he's less favoured now (not playing through that injury earlier in the season and being a healthy scratch) but he's still entrenched. Hopefully he's pushed out and not re-signed.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
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BB was sat for a different reason as Adams was. And BB's happened to be unfortunately lengthened due to a 2 game shut out by the Pens, Adams was possibly cut short due to Sill being traded. It's not the same thing.

How much of what you are typing do you actually believe firmly?

We've added Winnik since. I'm trying to convince myself that he will finally make the coaches see Adams as unnecessary. I'm not confident that its true, but I'm hoping as hard as I can.

Fives years of the absurd says differently.
 

systemsgo

fire mj
Apr 24, 2014
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How much of what you are typing do you actually believe firmly?

Fives years of the absurd says differently.

Meh. 60%? If the Pens did not shutout the first two teams on the western Canada road trip, BB would've played. I'm 100% on that. Adams sitting the caps game over Sill/Downie? Not very likely. Knowing the team, the games vs. the Panthers was the "least important" (compared to Caps & Blues) so they sat him during that one.

Some people are just sooo high on BB here, I think some of the things you guys are knocking the coaches for regarding Bennett are unreasonable so I'm arguing the reverse.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
35,920
30,837
People keep comparing the situation to Tangradi, off and on. It's only similar in that they were/are being handled in a similarly ham-fisted kind of way. Outside of that... as much as I wanted ET to succeed... Bennett has shown about a billion times the promise in far less of a sample size.
 

rightwinglock

Registered User
Feb 9, 2015
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Trade for Jagr, insert him on second line RW and move Comaeu to 3rd line

39-87-72
14-71-68
winnik-16-17
13-40-23/27

Done

Geno is a primary puck retriever in that situation and I don't like that one bit. Seen it at the Games last year, didn't work even with Ovechkin and Semin. Just keep Comeau there and let them work their magic. If we don't make any trades, even Winnik should be tried on the LW before Kunitz, cause on all accounts, he's a forechecking beast, great along the boards and all out effort. If it clicks the Kunitz problem in the top6 is solved and we got ourselves two guys that will be creating havoc and letting Geno do his thing.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
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Meh. 60%? If the Pens did not shutout the first two teams on the western Canada road trip, BB would've played. I'm 100% on that. Adams sitting the caps game over Sill/Downie? Not very likely. Knowing the team, the games vs. the Panthers was the "least important" (compared to Caps & Blues) so they sat him during that one.

Some people are just sooo high on BB here, I think some of the things you guys are knocking the coaches for regarding Bennett are unreasonable so I'm arguing the reverse.

I see nothing unreasonable about expecting a guy like Kunitz to have to earn his ice time. Why was he gifted a top PP spot and top six time, when he had one point in his last eight?

I also don't think it's unreasonable for Adams to sit while BB plays.

As I keep saying, there isn't a soul on these boards who would bet real money MJ will sit Adams. Most of my ill feelings right now stem from the fact a reliable poster like Capp, who has been spot on before with his sources, told us the Pens attempted to move BB.

That really makes me wonder how they view him moving fwd. Since he was just put on the fourth line, that doesn't bode well.
 

systemsgo

fire mj
Apr 24, 2014
3,522
0
I see nothing unreasonable about expecting a guy like Kunitz to have to earn his ice time. Why was he gifted a top PP spot and top six time, when he had one point in his last eight?

I also don't think it's unreasonable for Adams to sit while BB plays.

As I keep saying, there isn't a soul on these boards who would bet real money MJ will sit Adams. Most of my ill feelings right now stem from the fact a reliable poster like Capp, who has been spot on before with his sources, told us the Pens attempted to move BB.

That really makes me wonder how they view him moving fwd. Since he was just put on the fourth line, that doesn't bode well.

But it's unreasonable to expect the players to care if Adams sits, sitting a 4th liner just doesn't send a message - to any team. Bennett was not sat solely because of his play though his play contributed to it. I see no issue with it, it was simply bad timing that made it so many games.

You won't find a single post of mine where I'm sticking up for Kunitz or Adams. They both suck and the day they're off this team, I'll be right here rejoicing. But MJ hasn't done that bad a job with the team so far. We don't know the reasons behind some decisions he has made, but we also don't know everything that went on behind the scenes. He hasn't done anything so egregious so far and I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I have said that the Pens should give Bennett a shot at the top 6, but I'm not worked up over it at this time. The guy has played less than 100 games at the NHL level, we are no longer so desperate on wingers that we don't have options. He should definitely be on the 3rd line though, he's utterly wasted on the 4th. And my earlier post of Winnik-Sutter-Downie was what I said I thought would happen, not what I want MJ to do.

The bolded part makes me think they still intend to move him. It would depend on what they move him for, trading him when his value is low is just a bad move, but if JR can make a good long-term move by shipping out Bennett, then he should do it. The crappy part is that if he's stuck on the 4th line, his trade value is not going to be good.

Yeah, he's #26.



Winnik is going to wear 26 I believe. I don't have a link to verify though.

Thanks!
 

lastcupever75

Phive cups PA.
May 14, 2009
5,754
260
Malkin not being able to win face offs is a weakness in his game if he doesn't improve in play off games it will hurt this team and be a big reason this team doesnt win

not the way he played last night. if he keeps that up he could go 0-30 in the circle and it wont be noticed
 

AquaticBirdman

Registered User
Sep 25, 2007
26,542
374
Montreal, Canada
Lapierre brings a dimension to the 4th line (and team as a whole) that we've needed for some time. Very happy with how he's played for us thus far.

That being said, I still wanna punch him in the mouth.
 

cygnus47

Registered User
Sep 14, 2013
7,594
2,690
Malkin seemed to just set them up by losing the faceoff. He'd let them take it and then cut off one of the first two passes and get it straight back.
 

cygnus47

Registered User
Sep 14, 2013
7,594
2,690
And though I'd love to NOT wade into the BB thing, it seems to be a pervasive issue with coaches and their favourites.

It should be noted by coaches that when a team is playing badly one young, mistake prone player is NOT responsible for the team's play and should NOT be made an example of. If you want to make an example of someone, you take a team leader who is not living up to their standards. No-one on the team is looking to Beau and saying "well if he's being lazy I'M going to be lazy", NO-ONE. If you are punishing a young player, there has to be a lesson and a chance for a quick redemption, otherwise you're breeding a lack of confidence and second guessing on their part.

Fine, Beau isn't playing up to a top 6 standard because he's being too passive. How about putting him back down with Sutter who is also struggling and letting them get their confidence back? Give them a mission to win every puck battle they can and prove they're better than 3rd liners. Give them their ice time against lesser competition so that they can get into better habits with less pressure. (Not to mention, how about giving Kunitz a shake down about being lazy, flubbing passes left and right and being less physical than BB?) Fine, scratch them for one game, but you better have a purpose for it, and you can't let them dwell on it before getting another opportunity.

I just don't understand what HCMJ is trying to achieve here. It was the same with Despres the last few years. He plays dominant hockey in a lesser role, finally gets a chance on a higher line and plays well. Then a few games later he and the whole team have a bad game and he gets punished and scratched while no-one else is? How does that make sense? Is the team looking to Despres and Beau for guidance? Are they the guys steering the team's conscience?

Young guys need a consistent message, to know that they are trusted and that they have some leeway to make up for their mistakes before they are punished and ICE TIME TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES TO LEARN. Playing BB for 7 minutes in a role he can't possibly achieve anything in is not going to get his confidence back, is not going to help the team and doesn't prove anything to the team except that the coach has favourites and is willing to haze young players for being in slumps while the team is also in a slump.

It just doesn't make any sense.
 

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