Ovechkin Milestone Thread - Countdown to 894 (Continued)

Gretzky stayed a step ahead of most of that stuff for the same reason he stayed a step ahead of defenses and became the highest scoring player in history.

If it were a simple matter of whacking him the same way they did with Mario, or kneeing him the way they did with Orr, then that’s exactly what they would have done.

Though to be fair it did help that he had Messier as a teammate and not an opponent.

Nonsense.

Gretzky was never a step ahead of that stuff. Doing as such means constantly being a stick-length apart from the opposition at all times; which nobody is.

Anybody could have chopped his ankles if they wanted to.

Gretzky was allusive, but he wasn't invisible. In fact, Id argue Orr was more elusive than Gretzky.
 
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Nonsense.

Gretzky was never a step ahead of that stuff. Doing as such means constantly being a stick-length apart from the opposition at all times; which nobody is.

Anybody could have chopped his ankles if they wanted to.

Gretzky was allusive, but he wasn't invisible. In fact, Id argue Orr was more elusive than Gretzky.

Orr was not at all more elusive than Gretzky. His career would have been a lot longer if he had been better at dodging contact.

And yes, obviously someone could straight up Ciccarelli anyone at any time. Billy Smith got him in the playoffs. McCreary caught him unawares on the blue line. Dave Taylor punched him straight in the face. It’s not like that stuff didn’t happen at all. But there’s absolutely no doubt it would’ve happened a lot more if he had been a less slippery target. Watch pretty much any Oilers game early in his career and you can see them taking runs at him, trying to get a stick on him. Watch a game a few years later and you’ll see he suddenly has a lot more space and nobody seems in a hurry to lunge out of position at him, because they know better.
 
As usual, I will never understand why Wayne Gretzky and era-time-travel issues come up in these topics.

First of all, Gretzky and Ovechkin have NOTHING in common as hockey players, other than they were both dominant in their eras. Gretzky's style of offense was completely unlike Ovechkin's. Gretzky never tried to overpower other players with his shot or (lol!) his physicality. Gretzky almost never (and basically never after about age 24) tried to drive the net in a straight line. Gretzky's entire style of offense was based on avoiding barriers and creating open space for himself and more so for his teammates. Gretzky almost never fired a one-timer in his career. (As a center, Gretzky was primarily a pass-first player, as we all know.)

Second, I could not care less how players of one era would do if "time-traveled" to another era, and neither should anyone. We should not expend any brain-cells on this. Players need to be appreciated in the context of their own eras, period.

Gretzky's peak period was (to be very specific) January 1981 to September 1991. The NHL, and to some extent international hockey, was very different in that period (which is really, in itself, akin to about two mini-eras) from today. Ovechkin, of course, has starred for a very long period (almost 20 years now). Though he's not in his prime by a long-shot anymore, he's still very effective as a scorer.

It's very typically the case with the most elite players in NHL history that they excelled over long and diverse periods. Though Gretzky's prime period was 'only' 10.5 years, this is relative --- he was the highest-scoring N.A. player in 1979-80 and the highest scoring N.A. player in 1997-98, when he was seven years past his prime, old and banged up, and on a very low scoring team. Quite obviously, he could be dominant across different periods and styles of hockey. Same with Howe, Hull, Jagr, etc. Ovechkin has been playing at 'star' level for almost 20 years and has the most insane physical durability of any hockey player ever, or at least since Gordie Howe.

Finally, although I understand the exciting, big-name appeal of a contemporary player beating Gretzky for a major League record, I personally have never thought of the career goals-record as a "Gretzky record". (I'm not sure Gretzky himself does either, and I think he has always had some mixed-feelings about taking that one away from Howe.) To me, the best career / longevity / volume goal-scorers in NHL history (pre-Ovechkin) are Rocket Richard, Bobby Hull, and Gordie Howe. Those guys were dominant as goal scorers for most of their careers, and set the standards for a long and excellent career as goal scorers. Gretzky was more like an "incidental" goal scorer, who was so insanely talented that he racked up 92 and 87 (in 74 games!) goal-scoring seasons while dishing out 130 assists or whatever. He was never a consistently elite goal-scorer after age 26, and essentially an average first-line center in goal scoring from about age 30-31 (though this had a lot to do with accumulated back injuries).

I think it's good if Ovechkin gets the record in as much as the guy with the most seasons leading the League in goals deserves to have the most career goals. Ovechkin seems like a good guy, and obviously the NHL will big-it-up for maximum P.R. value, as it's been so long since any major offensive records have been set or broken. We also know that Gretzky will be all-class about it and first in line to shake Ovechkin's hand.

Anyway, point being -- stop trying to compare players across eras, the more so when the two players aren't remotely comparable. Appreciate the talent of each era.
Well put. Just one thing to add, Gretzky has said that the most special record for him was the goal record. And him breaking it was the "biggest deal" personally for him.

It's funny though, assist, goal and points records, the goal one is the only one I always thought was even remotely possible to break.
 
Orr was not at all more elusive than Gretzky. His career would have been a lot longer if he had been better at dodging contact.

And yes, obviously someone could straight up Ciccarelli anyone at any time. Billy Smith got him in the playoffs. McCreary caught him unawares on the blue line. Dave Taylor punched him straight in the face. It’s not like that stuff didn’t happen at all. But there’s absolutely no doubt it would’ve happened a lot more if he had been a less slippery target. Watch pretty much any Oilers game early in his career and you can see them taking runs at him, trying to get a stick on him. Watch a game a few years later and you’ll see he suddenly has a lot more space and nobody seems in a hurry to lunge out of position at him, because they know better.

There’s a big difference between taking a run at Gretzky, and getting a stick on him.
Of course the former was difficult because he was so elusive. The latter? No.

Anybody could have Bobby Clarke’d Gretzky, or ‘flagrantly attacked and injured’ as you originally stated regarding Ovechkin.

It wouldn't have been difficult. Gretzky wasn't invisible.
 
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What even the hell was that shot? Just nuts that he can still do this at will.
I think a snap shot from distance with a bit of a wrist shot in there because it was sort of a sweeping motion. Really nice-looking shot to get it along the iron from there with force and quick release. I thought he was going to pass it when he shot attempted there the second time.
 
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1738331729373.png

Alexander Ovechkin (23-14—37 in 35 GP) owns a goals-per-game rate of 0.66 this season, which puts him on pace to pass Wayne Gretzky against Columbus at Capital One Arena on April 13. Ovechkin (876-711—1,587 in 1,461 GP) owns a career average of 0.60 and that rate has him tracking to break the record in Washington’s first game during the 2025-26 season.

* Ovechkin scored his 876th career goal and 10th career power-play goal against the Senators. Ottawa is the 16th franchise Ovechkin has scored at least 10 power-play goals against – already the most by one player in NHL history and three more than the next closest (Dino Ciccarelli, Marcel Dionne, Phil Esposito, Brendan Shanahan & Teemu Selanne: all w/ 13).
OVIvsOTT_Media-31012658.png

sauce: https://media.nhl.com/public/news/18607
 
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Give Ovechkin wooden sticks and horseshit skates and he'd have 600 goals.

People keep brushing 99 off like he's somehow inferior to Ovechkin. Gretzkys prime years make OV look pedestrian. It's OVs longevity and the league being much more soft today is the reason he's about to get the record. OV would constantly get mauled in the 80s and 90s man. Scoring a record amount of empty net goals, 3 on 3 goals etc. Give it a rest. Just be happy he'll have the record.

It is utterly bizarre that out of all the players in the NHL to single out for not being able to last in the 80s, you would select one of the most physically dominant and most durable players in history.

NHL Stats

The NHL toned down Ovechkin with suspensions for hits that likely would have been minor penalties in the 80s. It was Ovechkin who was too rough for the modern NHL - not the other way around.

At best, your post is good politics - take a strength and try to pretend it's a weakness. It bears scant resemblance to reality.
 
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Give Ovechkin wooden sticks and horseshit skates and he'd have 600 goals.
It would be closer to 1600 than 600.
You don't just understand what high scoring environment is. Everyone played with wooden sticks and horseshit skates. But scoring was high nevertheless.
Gretzky's teams LOSSES even when they scored FIVE OR MORE GOALS FOR:
1738335484222.png


Caps all LOSSES with 5 or more GF in Ovechkin's era:
1738335285796.png
 
It would be closer to 1600 than 600.
You don't just understand what high scoring environment is. Everyone played with wooden sticks and horseshit skates. But scoring was high nevertheless.
Gretzky's teams LOSSES even when they scored FIVE OR MORE GOALS FOR:
View attachment 970213

Caps all LOSSES with 5 or more GF in Ovechkin's era:
View attachment 970209
January 8, 1986 EDM 9 @ 11 TOR

Goodness gracious!
 
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There’s a big difference between taking a run at Gretzky, and getting a stick on him.
Of course the former was difficult because he was so elusive. The latter? No.

Anybody could have Bobby Clarke’d Gretzky, or ‘flagrantly attacked and injured’ as you originally stated regarding Ovechkin.

It wouldn't have been difficult. Gretzky wasn't invisible.

I’m not sure why you’re suggesting nobody got a stick on Gretzky. He most certainly did get targeted that way, constantly. Just google the phrase “slashed Gretzky” and scroll through all the old news reports of him nursing welts after a game.

What I said was that his elusiveness saved him from getting Orr’ed or Lemieux’ed. You could slash at him but short of a Dale Hunter incident, you weren’t going to take him out of a game with some blatant run. At least not until Suter finally got tired of chasing and went Clarke-mode to take him out. That wouldn’t have been necessary against Ovechkin, a guy who welcomed the contact and who would have had a LOT more miles on his tires in that environment.

Fortunately Ovechkin mostly played in an environment where, although we deal with the occasional Cooke or Torres, teams generally don’t make a spectacle out of breaking their opponents physically. Crosby’s an example of a guy who was literally one more cheap shot away from being done as an elite player, and that hit never came because the league simply isn’t as openly predatory as it used to be.
 
At least not until Suter finally got tired of chasing and went Clarke-mode to take him out
It wasn't in NHL. In NHL Gretzky was protected and touching him was prohibited. His bodyguards didn't care about whether hits were clean or not, they just punched to the face.
 
It wasn't in NHL. In NHL Gretzky was protected and touching him was prohibited. His bodyguards didn't care about whether hits were clean or not, they just punched to the face.

That's how you want it to be....don't go after our star player, whether it's clean or not, you'll pay for it. Tkachuk's hit was a tad late, but don't have an issue with it....that's what opponents should do as well....go after the other team's star players....but you want to put some doubt in their minds about doing it.

That video though.....what's with the dive by Tkachuk on the punch....that was a bit embarrassing.
 
but don't have an issue with it
Than no one should bring his assists totals as something special. Staying with the puck behind the net without any inconvenience is not a hard job at all. Any top50 player with that cheat code can/could get '160 assists' per season.
As he said, Goals totals was the hardest job.
 
Than no one should bring his assists totals as something special. Staying with the puck behind the net without any inconvenience is not a hard job at all. Any top50 player with that cheat code can/could get '160 assists' per season.
As he said, Goals totals was the hardest job.
Yes, very simple to get assists, every top 50 player could get 160 assists per year, they just choose not to.....or if they got the Gretzky treatment they could.....really?

In the 100+ year history of the league, only 2 players have ever put up more than 102 assists in a season. Gretzky did it 10 times and Lemieux did it 1 time. Gretzky is the only player in history to put up more than 114 assists in a season and he did it 8 times. I have no issue with people trying to downplay that a bit, fine to have opinions, but to suggest there is nothing special about it is plain ignorant.
 
Yes, very simple to get assists, every top 50 player could get 160 assists per year, they just choose not to.....
No one has Gretzky's cheat code. They just being kicked out from behind the net (and Gretzky wasn't, that's why he has more assists than anyone has points - it's not that hard to understand).

 

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