Ovechkin 2007/2008 or McDavid 2022/2023?

[jigglysquishy]

McDavid is going to win these comparison threads every time. Not interesting anymore. Time to start comparing him to the either Gretz, Mario, or Howe. Everyone else isn’t a fair comparison.

McDavid is building a resume where anything lower or higher than 5 all time is a poor argument.

It was bound to happen eventually. Everyone is so far back from the Big Four, there is lots of room where someone can comfortably sit at 5.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

I honestly wonder sometimes if all people on this board do is read stats.

I watched Ovechkin in his prime years. I watched Crosby in his. I am old enough to say the same about Mario and Gretzky.

NONE of them could do what McDavid does on a consistent basis. Certain skills, yes of course (Gretz passing, Ovy shooting)....but not combined.

If you haven't been watching McDavid this year and you consider yourself a hockey fan, you need to start. We are watching an historic season unfold.

God I hope he doesn't get injured.

 

[gtrower]

McDavid is a better overall player than Ovechkin. I say this as a Kings fan.

What do you mean by “better overall?” Ovi tilted the ice big time back then. Of the two seasons being discussed Ovi’s was significantly better at ES. Over half of McD’s production is in the PP this season.

PP is absolutely part of the game and it gives McD the edge for the better season. But I feel like you’re trying to rag on Ovi defensively here. Which is backwards given the two seasons in question.

 

[kmart]

for me its ovi mainly because i followed the nhl/caps more closely then and am biased but i think ovechkins impact back then was stronger than mcdavids now. cant ignore the year he is having tho... if he gets to 70 goals this will be crazy.

 

[Foppberg]

It's probably McDavid.. but man young Ovi was a f***ing beast. Would just run through guys every shift and then score a hat trick.

 

[Nasti]

What do you mean by “better overall?” Ovi tilted the ice big time back then. Of the two seasons being discussed Ovi’s was significantly better at ES. Over half of McD’s production is in the PP this season.

PP is absolutely part of the game and it gives McD the edge for the better season. But I feel like you’re trying to rag on Ovi defensively here. Which is backwards given the two seasons in question.

McDavid makes the players around him better in a way Ovechkin doesn’t. Part of that is him being a center and part of that is him just owning the puck when it’s on his stick. If we’re just talking offense, which I am, McDavid is much more multidimensional.

 

[gtrower]

McDavid makes the players around him better in a way Ovechkin doesn’t. Part of that is him being a center and part of that is him just owning the puck when it’s on his stick. If we’re just talking offense, which I am, McDavid is much more multidimensional.

I feel like you didn’t see Ovi play that year man. He absolutely carried that squad and certainly made the team around him a LOT better.

At ES McD is pacing for 39+33 this season. Ovi had 43+32 that year. Adjusted to current scoring that’s 49+36. Again, Ovi was the better / more dynamic ES player if you extrapolate McD for the rest of the season and it’s not really that close if you consider the difference of scoring eras.

McD’s PP production is other-worldly this season and does make that unit better in a way that even Ovi can’t compete with (which is saying something).

 

[authentic]

I feel like you didn’t see Ovi play that year man. He absolutely carried that squad and certainly made the team around him a LOT better.

At ES McD is pacing for 39+33 this season. Ovi had 43+32 that year. Adjusted to current scoring that’s 49+36. Again, Ovi was the better / more dynamic ES player if you extrapolate McD for the rest of the season and it’s not really that close if you consider the difference of scoring eras.

McD’s PP production is other-worldly this season and does make that unit better in a way that even Ovi can’t compete with (which is saying something).

This is why I truly believe the difference between peak Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid currently is razor thin and where McDavid will make most of his advantage will be in his sustained offensive dominance as I believe he'll continue on like this (maybe not quite at this level though) for 5 or more seasons. He is barely better than them at their best and anyone claiming AINEC is probably not fully aware of how good Ovechkin and Crosby were.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

McDavid is building a resume where anything lower or higher than 5 all time is a poor argument.

It was bound to happen eventually. Everyone is so far back from the Big Four, there is lots of room where someone can comfortably sit at 5.

I disagree. The only thing separating him from Mario is an insane playoff run with the cup and like one more insane season similar to the one he’s having now and the 2019-2020 season.

Mario really only put together 4 full seasons of insane numbers. The rest are all partial season pace projections.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I disagree. The only thing separating him from Mario is an insane playoff run with the cup and like one more insane season similar to the one he’s having now and the 2019-2020 season.

Mario really only put together 4 full seasons of insane numbers. The rest are all partial season pace projections.

Mario's 1989 is a full tier above anything McDavid has done. His 1993 functionality is as well. He played enough games at that level that it's pretty clear Lemieux peaked a tier above.

 

[Rengorlex]

I feel like you didn’t see Ovi play that year man. He absolutely carried that squad and certainly made the team around him a LOT better.

At ES McD is pacing for 39+33 this season. Ovi had 43+32 that year. Adjusted to current scoring that’s 49+36. Again, Ovi was the better / more dynamic ES player if you extrapolate McD for the rest of the season and it’s not really that close if you consider the difference of scoring eras.

McD’s PP production is other-worldly this season and does make that unit better in a way that even Ovi can’t compete with (which is saying something).

I don't think Ovechkin was a better or a more dynamic ES player than McDavid at all. McDavid is substantially better at driving offense, his linemates just have been ass at finishing his chances.

I don't think the difference in PP is as pronounced as the points suggest either, Ovechkin didn't have as good of a supporting cast (yet).

 

[filinski77]

McDavid makes the players around him better in a way Ovechkin doesn’t. Part of that is him being a center and part of that is him just owning the puck when it’s on his stick. If we’re just talking offense, which I am, McDavid is much more multidimensional.

Not a good argument, considering that in 2008 Ovechkin essentially had as many GOALS as #2 on his team had points.

Ovechkin carried that 2008 team more than McDavid ever has needed to carry the Oilers so far.

 

[moropanov]

Not a good argument, considering that in 2008 Ovechkin essentially had as many GOALS as #2 on his team had points.

Ovechkin carried that 2008 team more than McDavid ever has needed to carry the Oilers so far.

Nah that just prove's he didnt make others better around him if they dont get points.. =plays for himself not for team and doesnt make others better.

 

[cupface52]

Not a good argument, considering that in 2008 Ovechkin essentially had as many GOALS as #2 on his team had points.

Ovechkin carried that 2008 team more than McDavid ever has needed to carry the Oilers so far.

Agree with the first part.

Can't agree with that second part. Backstrom(rookie), Semin, Green, Kozlov, Nylander(missed half season).

'16-'17 Oilers. Draisaitl(before major breakout), Eberle, Lucic, Klefbom, RNH,.

Washington barely made it into the playoffs, had Carolina won their last game of the season, Caps would have missed the playoffs. Oilers were comfortably in the playoffs.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Nah that just prove's he didnt make others better around him if they dont get points.. =plays for himself not for team and doesnt make others better.

Your severe dislike of Ovechkin has gotten tiresome. I dare you to say one nice thing about him.

 

[YippieKaey]

People say Ovi is the pp specialist but in this comparison it seems that cape fits McD better.

And this is like another version of Ovi vs Sid. Two very different players, different positions, different playstyles and different ways of impacting the game. The only common denominator between these players in these two seasons would be two fast skaters that kind of ignores the defensive zone.

 

[Randyne]

Ovechkin.
League is super soft now even Old Ovechkin was pretty close to McDrai duo and could win Ross+Hart+Rocket+Lindsay last season if season ended somewhere in January 16 - January 24.
Young Ovi outscored SidMalkin duo so McDrai duo wouldn't be a problem for peak Ovechkin.

 

[filinski77]

Agree with the first part.

Can't agree with that second part. Backstrom(rookie), Semin, Green, Kozlov, Nylander(missed half season).

'16-'17 Oilers. Draisaitl(before major breakout), Eberle, Lucic, Klefbom, RNH,.

Washington barely made it into the playoffs, had Carolina won their last game of the season, Caps would have missed the playoffs. Oilers were comfortably in the playoffs.

Ovechkin was significantly more dominant and important relative to his team in 2008 than McDavid was to his team in 2017.

	Points			Goals
Ovechkin	112​		Ovechkin	65​
#2	69​	62%​	#2	26​	150%​
#3	56	100%​	#3	21	210%​
#5	42	167%​	#5	16	306%​
#10	18	522%​	#10	7	829%​
	Points			Goals
McDavid	100​		McDavid	30​
#2	77​	30%​	#2	29​	3%​
#3	51	96%​	#3	27	11%​
#5	43	133%​	#5	20	50%​
#10	24	317%​	#10	8	275%​

 

[North Cole]

I feel like you didn’t see Ovi play that year man. He absolutely carried that squad and certainly made the team around him a LOT better.

At ES McD is pacing for 39+33 this season. Ovi had 43+32 that year. Adjusted to current scoring that’s 49+36. Again, Ovi was the better / more dynamic ES player if you extrapolate McD for the rest of the season and it’s not really that close if you consider the difference of scoring eras.

McD’s PP production is other-worldly this season and does make that unit better in a way that even Ovi can’t compete with (which is saying something).

Yes he carried them via scoring 65 goals, which is 70+ in the current environment. There's a reason that's the best goal scoring season we have seen in a very long time and OV>>McDavid as a goal scorer. Issue here is that at ES McDavid relies a lot on the finishing of his team mates, which with Kane having been out, is really poor. The player that takes it to the house ES and scores more proficiently will come out looking better than the player that spreads the offense more because OV finishing >>>> anyone else on our team at finishing. Doesn't necessarily mean that OV is driving the offense better on the whole, though IDK if we have the xgf% stats back then to actually tell one way or the other.

OV was a lot less reliant on his team mates back then because he had no one else. It was basically whatever he could do to get through 2-3 guys and score on his own. The team was devoid of help. We have a deeper offense, but McDavid is also more of a pass first guy, so he will always rely more on the finishing of others more often then not. Outside of 2-3 guys in history, I'm not sure many finish better than OV. These are points in OV's favour, but IMO, scoring goals by yourself =/= making your team better. I'm not saying it's a negative attribute, you gotta win any way you can and he certainly did.