HF Habs: Out of Town Thread: 2025 Playoff edition

[dinodebino]

Yes. I remember him telling the crowd to 'chill out.' That was in spring training 2010 and then he became a superstar.

Guys cry after losses. It happens all the time. They do it because they care. It happens in every city. And there's no doubt Montreal is a brutal market to play in but players have been successful here forever. It was a brutal market in the 50s through to today. And we need guys who can handle that. Not every player can.

But I think the problem runs much deeper than that in Toronto. It's certainly not the fan's fault that Mitch Marner doesn't like to get hit. It's no the fan's fault that he sticks to the perimeter.... that's on him.

Agree. Culture is everything.

 

[Kennerback]

pLaN the pArAdE


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Are we basically trashing the Core 4 so much because we like dumping on the Leafs. Let's be honest, they can't be all bad. This is an alternative view:

"Matthews is a shut down forward/two way stud. People don’t know this because they don’t watch the maple leafs play (they just complain about them) and because they’ve never heard of a 70 goal scoring shutdown forward, 200ft player.

Matthews was supposed to be Anze Kopitar, but he matured into an Ovechkin+Barkov.

Also, yes … Tavares is a true net front presence IE Perry. He’s just maintained his level of production MUCH better than Perry has in his later career.

Marner is also a fantastic two-way shutdown forward, who runs the powerplay and can play defense IE Fedorov. How many of those exist in the NHL? Can you name another one now that I’ve named Federov?

Honestly, there just aren’t any comparables to many of Toronto’s core 4. There aren’t many (or any) players who really match up to what they actually bring to the ice."

 

[dcyhabs]

Honestly not sure what the Leafs can do to get themselves back on track. IMO they need to do some retooling for 1-2 years before they try and contend again. Sucks that they don't have their own first round picks, but I'd probably keep Matthews, Nylander and Knies and then retool from there.

Somehow they need to hope that Cowan can slot in the top 6 and trade their way into a top pairing defensemen (or have an insane draft like Dallas did when they got Heiskanen, Robertson and Oettinger).

I doubt the Leafs need that much. They don’t need an offensive contributor, they need a heart and soul vet or two who can set an example, put in visible effort, and get the stars to buy in or look bad in comparison.

No idea who that would be, but they didn’t need Pacioretty to come in and score, they needed a guy to dig pucks with some sandpaper and demonstrate playoff hockey.

 

[HuGo Sham]

from Drake losing a million dollar game 7, leafs bet to Bieber, to jersey burning and tik tok meltdowns the leafs are an unequivocally pathetic, fanbase and franchise. There should be a specific mute button for them on HF

 

[Ozmodiar]

Are we basically trashing the Core 4 so much because we like dumping on the Leafs. Let's be honest, they can't be all bad. This is an alternative view:

"Matthews is a shut down forward/two way stud. People don’t know this because they don’t watch the maple leafs play (they just complain about them) and because they’ve never heard of a 70 goal scoring shutdown forward, 200ft player.

Matthews was supposed to be Anze Kopitar, but he matured into an Ovechkin+Barkov.

Also, yes … Tavares is a true net front presence IE Perry. He’s just maintained his level of production MUCH better than Perry has in his later career.

Marner is also a fantastic two-way shutdown forward, who runs the powerplay and can play defense IE Fedorov. How many of those exist in the NHL? Can you name another one now that I’ve named Federov?

Honestly, there just aren’t any comparables to many of Toronto’s core 4. There aren’t many (or any) players who really match up to what they actually bring to the ice."

the whole is less than the sum of its parts.

 

[ahmedou]

Toronto Maple Leafs = Dallas Cowboys

 

[WeThreeKings]

Uhh it is a lofty goal, half of the league doesn't make it each year, teams better than the habs didn't make it this year and soon there will be even more teams in the league. For a habs fan you should be well acquainted with the inability to score goals, god knows this franchise has been totally shit at scoring goals for decades, I guess some lessons have to learned over and over.

What goals? He had 3 goals. Same as Caufield. In 8 more games.

How many times does Matthews have to drop complete no shows and struggle to score in the playoffs before people accept that he's a regular season merchant, who not only doesnt have another gear in the playoffs, he's not even on par with his regular season ability.

Signing Matthews or trading for him is basically saying we are happy making the playoffs every year but we have no aspirations to ever win the cup.

 

[OldCraig71]

The reality is that he's been hurt the past three playoffs... it's just a fact.

Totally agree he had several chances before that but I've always felts he's played better than Marner. Marner doesn't just not produce, he makes plays that actively hurt the team. Every year a key goal gets scored against Toronto because Marner does something dumb. It's unbelievable.

Why has he been playing if that's the case? I don't believe he's hurt because if so, he would have declined the invite to the 4 Nations cup and he didn't. BTW, he choked in that tournament as well. He had the game on his stick several times before McD eventually won it for us.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

What goals? He had 3 goals. Same as Caufield. In 8 more games.

How many times does Matthews have to drop complete no shows and struggle to score in the playoffs before people accept that he's a regular season merchant, who not only doesnt have another gear in the playoffs, he's not even on par with his regular season ability.

Signing Matthews or trading for him is basically saying we are happy making the playoffs every year but we have no aspirations to ever win the cup.

Why are you talking about playoffs when we're talking about regular season?

There are lots of teams that would love to have his goal scoring to make the playoffs.

 

[overlords]

Toronto Maple Leafs = Dallas Cowboys

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I still think bringing Joe Thornton in was like a middle finger to the hockey gods and cemented that core as forever-chokers.

 

[OldCraig71]

This.

Toronto is NOT helping our market by looking like a bunch of losers. Pressure is intense in our markets and what Ketchup says is what a lot of star players think.

I rarely disagree with your opinions, Dino, but Matthews signed another contract to stay there, Tavares wanted to be there, and Nylander as well. If it were as bad as some are saying, they would have requested trades, and to further my point, the Habs beat the Leafs in 21 when the arenas were basically empty, and they still found a way to choke.

 

[Andrei79]

This.

Toronto is NOT helping our market by looking like a bunch of losers. Pressure is intense in our markets and what Ketchup says is what a lot of star players think.

Id add that Tkachuk is probably being a mouth piece for Matthews and Marner. He was linemates with both, he knows them.

 

[JianYang]

I doubt the Leafs need that much. They don’t need an offensive contributor, they need a heart and soul vet or two who can set an example, put in visible effort, and get the stars to buy in or look bad in comparison.

No idea who that would be, but they didn’t need Pacioretty to come in and score, they needed a guy to dig pucks with some sandpaper and demonstrate playoff hockey.

Their team was actually better around the edges this year.

Goaltending was much better, and the defense was better. Heck, tanev even somehow survived the season without a major injury.

But your best players still have to be your best players, and it is a common theme for the Leafs that the production of matthews and especially marner drops off significantly in games 4-7. Nylander actually has good numbers in that situation but he also had a dud one in this post season.

It's basically the opposite problem of Edmonton.

 

[AHShadow]

I doubt the Leafs need that much. They don’t need an offensive contributor, they need a heart and soul vet or two who can set an example, put in visible effort, and get the stars to buy in or look bad in comparison.

No idea who that would be, but they didn’t need Pacioretty to come in and score, they needed a guy to dig pucks with some sandpaper and demonstrate playoff hockey.

I doubt bringing in someone like Marchand (although still a very good add) would elevate their team to cup contender status. Especially if they're losing one of Marner and Tavares.

The leafs have two big problems:
1) They need better defensemen that can also push the play offensively. They have Tanev and Carlo who are great defensive guys, but Rielly isn't doing enough offensively.
2) They need a superstar gamer that can elevate their play during crunch time. Nylander has been their most consistent playoff performer out of the core 4, but even he disappeared during game 5 and 7. They need someone like Rantanen, Svech, Mackinnon, McDavid, Draisatl.

And both are extremely hard to get, especially when you don't have any assets (traded 2025 and 2026 1st rounders + Cowan) and are letting your best asset (Marner) walk away for free.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Why are you talking about playoffs when we're talking about regular season?

There are lots of teams that would love to have his goal scoring to make the playoffs.

Of course they do. But in the context of debating whether or not we should add any of the Leafs core four, as fans we have aspirations, or should have aspirations, of winning the cup. Not just making the playoffs.

Advocating to increase regular season success knowing the cost to playoff success, as a fan, that's just weird.

 

[Draft]

How much of this sentiment will resonate and increase the backlash amongst players with “options” vs CDN markets?

This has to be the most brain-dead, pathetic take from a professional athlete in history. “I don’t like having fans care about the team, it makes me play bad.” Must have been why his team crumpled at the Four Nations.

I really don’t understand why so many modern NHL players think it’s a point of pride to play a game for people that don’t care. What other athletes in any other sport -dealing with twice the volume of fans - are publicly this soft and entitled?

Leaf fans suck and are an embarrassment. They still aren’t responsible for their team choking.

 

[Redux91]

As predicted the Matthews 'passenger' comment is taking off like WILDFIRE lmao

I knew the second he said it it was gonna go bad for city bahahaha

(The Marner wake up meme is hilarious too after NOT helping at all in game 7 himself lmao)

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I seem to remember Sabres fans telling me Jack Eichel and Sam Reinhart were losers that would never win anything either.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Of course they do. But in the context of debating whether or not we should add any of the Leafs core four, as fans we have aspirations, or should have aspirations, of winning the cup. Not just making the playoffs.

Advocating to increase regular season success knowing the cost to playoff success, as a fan, that's just weird.

Ya but you don't know it will be a cost to playoff success. A change of scenery has worked countless times, players who are failing in one way have time and again gone to another team and turned it around. A player like Matthews (or any of their core) almost never hits the market as a UFA, any GM who does not consider acquiring someone like him is doing a massive disservice to his team no matter his performance in the playoffs.

 

[OnTheRun]

I seem to remember Sabres fans telling me Jack Eichel and Sam Reinhart were losers that would never win anything either.

They never had to opportunity to win anything. Kind of a false equivalence to compare them to guys who are something like 2-17 in series clinching games and 0-7 in game #7.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

They never had to opportunity to win anything. Kind of a false equivalence to compare them to guys who are something like 2-17 in series clinching games and 0-7 in game #7.

They couldn't even win regular season games with Eichel, Reinhart, Montour, Dahlin, Ullmark, Rodriguez, Okposo on the same team.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Curious how every season Matthews gets injured just as the playoffs are starting...

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

I love this yearly tradition.

I do not feel bad at all for their fans.

Don't know who I hate more. Their obnoxious fans or the "national" sports media that covers them.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

We like to think like that, but guys like Cole are already getting tired of the media attention. His media scrums are now a pain for both himself and the beat reporters.

His type of players won’t stick around for 10 years. I sense that the window of opportunity for big market Canadian is that much smaller because of this. When they get here, it’s all cute and great and they love the attention.

Until they try to have fun out on the town and then they get spotted at some club and they get tagged on social media, and lambasted publicly. That is what happened to Cole last year. Since then, he’s been very defiant and very weary of any media attention.

Whereas if they go to Florida, Vegas or LA, nobody gives a shit about them. They can get wasted one night and nobody will get on it’s high horses.

Plus the weather, plus the money.

Healthy and strong Canadian markets is good for us. Toronto is making it harder for us to look good. That is the truth.

That's very true but Carey might have got it the worst when he was younger. The media stalked his every move, made up rumors (divorce rumors, etc) and he still stayed. Plus winning solves a lot of those problems. Cole doesn't have to bear the responsibility of Suzuki as captain. Also if he's around people around his age that he gets along with (plus the winning I mentioned) he'll probably just bear it.

I also like that Hughes and Gorron are specifically targetting players that understand and want to be in Montreal's market. Players like Slaf and Demidov are made for Montreal. Players like Matthews, Marner, etc should be playing for a mid tier team like Blues, Islanders, etc

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Honestly not sure what the Leafs can do to get themselves back on track. IMO they need to do some retooling for 1-2 years before they try and contend again. Sucks that they don't have their own first round picks, but I'd probably keep Matthews, Nylander and Knies and then retool from there.

Somehow they need to hope that Cowan can slot in the top 6 and trade their way into a top pairing defensemen (or have an insane draft like Dallas did when they got Heiskanen, Robertson and Oettinger).

Just let go of Marner and JT. Move Nylander up and still have a dominant first line. Their D is set for at least another year. Use the next two years to retool. True to get good picks in 2026/27, even if it means tanking for a year. Hope certain prospects (Cowen, etc) hits. Offer sheet teams in cap he'll with multiple RFA signings pending. Sign a few ufas next summer.

They still have a window. They just need to execute properly. It's not a walk in the park and takes a decent amount of luck.