ahmedou
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BRADOU MARCHANDOU, PROUDOU DADDY OF THE TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS!!!
HF Habs: Out of Town Thread: 2025 Playoff edition
- Thread starter MarkovsKnee
- Start date
Stive Morgan
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Regardless of the loss, Nylander is such a freaking warrior, man.
I'd take him over Matthews in a Game 7 10 times out of 10.
I'd take him over Matthews in a Game 7 10 times out of 10.
dinodebino
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Stive Morgan
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dinodebino
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David Suzuki
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and in typical Leafs fashion, Nylander is the one their fans are having a go at
Point was that I've never seen anyone make the argument you implied.
I'm not sure. Maybe I missed earlier posts about Zadina vs JKO, but if not, seems like you are fighting with a man made of your own straw.
Anyone who gets a tryout invite for an NHL team has accessed a better shot than most hockey players worldwide...
The "what if" argument makes for a good comic book series, but not a particularly good argument if what you're suggesting is that Zadina "didn't get a shot".
An example of "development issue(s)" is the Habs organization under Bergevin... It's definitely not one isolated item, but moreso a failed approach in general.
Very difficult to separate the two... Imo so much so as to be a useless distinction. The two go hand in hand. Drafting approach disconnected from development approach is a losing strategy... See bargainbin era.
Evidence that the Habs had a bad development process is that over the course of a decade, very few of the top talent drafted in that time evolved to contribute in top 4 or top 6 roles...
The Red Wing, who are 6 drafts (or is it 7?) into the current regime, already have at least 4, including an elite #1D & all star top line player... Plus good bets on 2-4 more & a likely future #1G.
We had 1 (Romanov), arguably 3 if you stretch to count Galch & Lekhonen (stretches for different reasons) from MBs 10 yrs of draft & development
... plus 2 (CC & Guhle) who have largely developed as pro's under a different regime.
I'm the first to point out the Yzerplan rebuild has been mediocre, but the one thing they have done well at is drafting and developing talent. No one bats 1000%, but I can't believe anyone would try to equate MBs disastrous draft/development record with theirs... Night & Day.
I think you oversimplify athlete development. It's never "either/ or". Strong talents can and do develop in terrible situations, and strong talents can and do fail in great situations .
I'm not sure who made the case that "JKO was a development issue and Zadina wasn't", so I don't know who you're arguing with... I was simply pointing out that the pinata argument you are trying to beat up seems to be your own invention.
I do agree that this kind of oversimplification is a weak argument, whichever side one took. And, I would also say that on average, talented prospects have done better in the Wings/Yzerman program than those in BargainBin's did... Numbers speak for themselves.
Shane Wright was ranked higher than Slaf right until the end as well... Again here, I think you over estimate largely irrelevant variables in trying to make your argument.
Media draft rankings and internal team scouting lists aren't the same thing, nor do any two scouting departments have the same list... But all lists become irrelevant the day after the draft... Except in the minds of fans and teams that have hockey ops driven heavily by ownership with marketing heavy or emotional attachments.
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sheed36
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Knew there were lots of hits in the game but didn't expect this many. Hits were 64-44 for Florida.
sheed36
Registered User
Time for you to change Lowry. Get off this ice.
Nice check.
Nice check.
He also did the pass that lead to the famous last seconds goal in the WJC semi final game against Russia some years ago
Toronto are forced to play their backup goalie. Obviously Florida is gonna take advantage of it. Its not surprising Toronto would lose at least one game
ahmedou
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ahmedou
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red devil
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ahmedou
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HabsWhiteKnightLOL
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Did Mike Matheson got traded to Dallas?Thomas Harley sucks
Whitesnake
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Not sure I was talking about anybody in particular. I did say textually that everytime we try to talk about what a bad pick JK was, there are people who say that it wasn't that bad of a pick, it was just bad development. While for Zadina, I never read that. On the contrary, when people talk about Tkachuk, the response is...hey...you never wanted Tkachuk, you wanted Zadina instead....as if point blank, Zadina was a bad pick. There are never comments about how bad Zadina could have been develop. That's my sole point.
Not sure how you read that I said Zadina got not shot.....Just saying that getting a shot is not a way to determine anything as far as development. 'Cause getting a shot too early might have the same consequence as never getting a shot. I don't think getting a shot is an issue. It's how you get that shot. The timing. The pairing etc. Both kids got their shot. JK ended up making himself useful in other areas. Zadina was a top 6 or nothing. He is nothing.
Not going to disagree here.
Not sure why you talk about THE CURRENT REGIME. Zadina is not part of this current regime. If by regime we talk about GM, though head scouts, scouts and development teams change within a regime, well Zadina is Holland. Zadina is paired with everyboyd I named in the other thread. Not with Cossa, Seider and Cie. Holland's draft and development was abysmal after 2002. So that's 17 years of bad drafting and development. That Wings team has to be the most overrated scouting/development team of all time. They surfed on great European finds. More open to Europe than other teams. But when the playing field was leveled. they were abysmal. They really only hit with Larkin. And then you have to go back to Nyquist. But under Holland, clearly development couldn't be ideal.
I never said one person said this phrase. I'm saying people say JK might be a development issue. But when there are snarky remarks about posters here that would have taken Zadina, I see nobody talking about Zadina's possible bad development. So in resume, and IN GENERAL, and I did not say THE SAME PEOPLE WHO.....just saying that cases of JK bad development are out there....while Zadina was seemingly always....a bad pick.
First....pretty sure nobody can say right now who is the better pick. Second, Wright and Slaf....has nothing to do with 20 to 5 here...Actually my point about this is less the rankings than the reasons behind the rankings. It does happen from time to time that you just huge jumps up and down from mid rankings to final rankings. But often, it has to do with a different 2nd part of the season or playoffs. Just saying that the U-18 is not a good indicator for such a jump, in my opinion. Or that was the jump there for people to say I was right KNOWING Habs were aiming at C? Or because they really thought he was the 5th best prospect?
True. But as fans, we have to go with what we know. Name of our game. Thing is...as much as we love to diss public listing from agencies....they are never that far off. And when they are, it's because public agencies don't have needs. While teams do pick by needs sometimes. So it's normal to see discrepancies too. But as much as lists could differ, not sure what your point is...McKenzie had JK going for us...and he did. Also McKenzie is more a reflection of reality based on how he compiles the votes.
ahmedou
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