Our Second Line Conundrum.

[thepuckmonster]

For all those saying hodgson could improve his skating, well not really. Skating stride is a fundamental development that happens during midget hockey, not NHL. He can increase endurance but as far as his stride, he's below an average AHL level and can't hide it like the twins do with puck possession.

And he was given the chance in a top 6 role here last season during Keslers injury. And he did nothing in those games.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

If we're going to compare him to Hodgson:

1) His team has scored 33 more goals (that's an extra goal per game)

2) He has 11 of his 19 points on the PP. That's on pace for 2 less ES points than Schroeder.

3) He has 5 goals, 2 of them on the PP and 1 SH. 2 ES goals to Schroeder's 8...

This is where Hodgson will shine, IMO.
I watched him after the trade to Buffalo and he moved the puck around at a very high level on the power play but really no one could finish his set ups. Defensively he looked very weak but I think that given his work ethic he will improve and be a decnt second line center.

 

[Barney Gumble]

You say "sheltered minutes", I say "limited minutes". I believe Hodgson would have produced more here last season given more opportunity. It didn't work out for him in Buffalo right away, but it's not unusual for players to struggle with a new team.

Certainly, I think he would a better fit at 2nd line centre than anybody currently on the roster. Nothing can be done about that now, though.

The fact still remains, in my opinion, this team needs to find more players capable of generating offence.

IMHO, this means a proven NHLer (eg., neither Schroeder or Hodgson).

 

[thepuckmonster]

This is where Hodgson will shine, IMO.
I watched him after the trade to Buffalo and he moved the puck around at a very high level on the power play but really no one could finish his set ups. Defensively he looked very weak but I think that given his work ethic he will improve and be a decnt second line center.

Defensive awareness isn't easy to learn especially when the individual's skating ability is sub par. He has short legs and a terrible stride, this has always been a knock on him. He lags behind so often, that's how he gets offensive 1on 1 s or 1 on 0s. Kesler had to take on more defensive responsibility with having hodgson play a typical defensive role and suck balls at it. That doesn't solve scoring.

The basis is Hodgson isn't a top 6 on a cup contender at this tine so we can all stop having masturbatory thoughts about "what if" and get over it.

 

[4th line energy guy]

I wouldn't be opposed to getting Scott Gomez at 1 year/league min, even up to 1.5 million possibly. He can't be a worse offensive option then Ebbet and if he is, well, it's a 48 game deal.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I wouldn't be opposed to getting Scott Gomez at 1 year/league min, even up to 1.5 million possibly. He can't be a worse offensive option then Ebbet and if he is, well, it's a 48 game deal.

Gomez is Andrew Ebbett without the scoring touch at this point in his career. He's a playmaker but doesn't have size or much to bring I the table aside cup experience from what... 2003?

 

[Canucker]

For all those saying hodgson could improve his skating, well not really. Skating stride is a fundamental development that happens during midget hockey, not NHL. He can increase endurance but as far as his stride, he's below an average AHL level and can't hide it like the twins do with puck possession.

And he was given the chance in a top 6 role here last season during Keslers injury. And he did nothing in those games.

Hodgson's skating is good enough to be a solid 2nd line center in this league. The Sedins were weak on their skates and relatively slow when they broke into the league, they aren't speed demons but they're very strong and get by with smarts and skills...Hodgson is likely no different, obviously he's not at the same level but carving out a career as a decent 2nd liner shouldn't be an issue.

Gomez is Andrew Ebbett without the scoring touch at this point in his career. He's a playmaker but doesn't have size or much to bring I the table aside cup experience from what... 2003?

There is a reason Andrew Ebbett is a virtual career AHL'er and a reason Gomez is not. Gomez may have had a few **** years but he's better than Ebbett because Ebbett isn't even good enough to make it to the show, let alone have a ****** year there. If they made the same amount of money this discussion doesn't even take place.

 

[Tiranis]

Gomez is Andrew Ebbett without the scoring touch at this point in his career. He's a playmaker but doesn't have size or much to bring I the table aside cup experience from what... 2003?

I think that's harsh. He's a good bounce back candidate given his shooting percentage last season and his ability to maintain strong possession numbers. He played pretty tough minutes and did well.

I personally don't see the harm in signing him for $1m or something. Give him the chance to resurrect his career and if it doesn't work out here he can go on somewhere else in the summer.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I think that's harsh. He's a good bounce back candidate given his shooting percentage last season and his ability to maintain strong possession numbers. He played pretty tough minutes and did well.

I personally don't see the harm in signing him for $1m or something. Give him the chance to resurrect his career and if it doesn't work out here he can go on somewhere else in the summer.

League minimum or nothing, and only after its proven in actual games neither Ebbett or Schroeder or Lappy work out on centre. It's a contract spot that will be wasted if he bombs it and gets sent to the A. Chicago will likely throw 2M at him and pray he can play 2C like they did with BMo last year.

 

[LeftCoast]

I think that's harsh. He's a good bounce back candidate given his shooting percentage last season and his ability to maintain strong possession numbers. He played pretty tough minutes and did well.

I personally don't see the harm in signing him for $1m or something. Give him the chance to resurrect his career and if it doesn't work out here he can go on somewhere else in the summer.

I haven't watched Gomez a tonne over the last few years, but Ray Ferraro said on the radio this morning that the problem with Scott Gomez is an unwillingness to "play between the dots". If he can't or won't go to the areas where goals are scored in the NHL, he is not going to be much use to us. As a 4th line center, he's not an upgrade over Malhotra or Lapierre.

 

[John Bender*]

We have the components of the best second line in hockey they just can't stay healthy.

 

[Tiranis]

I haven't watched Gomez a tonne over the last few years, but Ray Ferraro said on the radio this morning that the problem with Scott Gomez is an unwillingness to "play between the dots". If he can't or won't go to the areas where goals are scored in the NHL, he is not going to be much use to us. As a 4th line center, he's not an upgrade over Malhotra or Lapierre.

Seems like Ray Ferraro thinks that every small center is unwilling to play between the dots. Apparently said it about Schroeder too... If he's as right about Gomez as he is about Schroeder then he's pretty damn wrong.

 

[Canucker]

I haven't watched Gomez a tonne over the last few years, but Ray Ferraro said on the radio this morning that the problem with Scott Gomez is an unwillingness to "play between the dots". If he can't or won't go to the areas where goals are scored in the NHL, he is not going to be much use to us. As a 4th line center, he's not an upgrade over Malhotra or Lapierre.

Why would he be a 4th line center? He'd likely fill in for Kesler and if he did a good enough job, he'd become the 3rd line center when Kesler returned...It's not like we're loaded with great options at the moment. And I take all info from Ferraro with a good dose of salt...Gomez' game isn't going to the dirty areas, never had been...he's a perimeter playmaker.

 

[LeftCoast]

Seems like Ray Ferraro thinks that every small center is unwilling to play between the dots. Apparently said it about Schroeder too... If he's as right about Gomez as he is about Schroeder then he's pretty damn wrong.

Almost - when asked what Schroeder has to do to make the most of his opportunity on the 2nd line this year, he said "he has to play between the dots". So he didn't say Schroeder DOESN'T go to the tough scoring areas, but did say that's what he needs to do to be successful.

About Scott Gomez, he said the game is changing. Defensemen are bigger and faster (and IMO the enforcement of obstruction penalties has been abandoned) and are very hard to beat on the perimeter. You can't score or create offense from the perimeter.

Given that Ferarro was a smallish (5'10") center with over 400 NHL goals, he probably knows a bit about the position. Everyone has an opinion, and I don't swallow everything that Ray says, but SOMETHING happened to Gomez during the 2010/11 season - his offense fell off the cliff.

A lot of players decline in their mid-30's, and sometimes quite suddenly (Naslund). But Gomez is not just decline, it's free fall. There have been lots of comments about his work ethic and he's always been a very soft player. IMO - at some point after he was comfortable with his $7M contract, he stopped caring and stopped working.

 

[mossey3535]

It's definitely hi-jacked the thread, but the poster who was bolding and capitalizing his opinions created some discussion.

I'm going to do my best to avoid discussing CH.

Well, I mentioned his name so I'm as guilty as the rest of us lol.

 

[ChilliBilly]

I think until Kesler and Booth come back we simply decide to not have a second line, go straight to a 1st, 3rd 4th and 5th lines. This should drive everyone in the league crazy.

Did i mention that my amp goes up to 11?

 

[mossey3535]

For all those saying hodgson could improve his skating, well not really. Skating stride is a fundamental development that happens during midget hockey, not NHL. He can increase endurance but as far as his stride, he's below an average AHL level and can't hide it like the twins do with puck possession.

And he was given the chance in a top 6 role here last season during Keslers injury. And he did nothing in those games.

I'm sorry, but you can always improve technically. Lots of NHL guys work with power skating coaches during the summer and they are long past Midget. The most recent that I can recall was Joe Colborne.

There are lots of tall guys with long legs who have no speed. People generate power and speed in different ways.

Hell, if you are playing Midget in the first place the chances of you making the NHL are probably pretty low in general.

Anyways, can we talk about Kassian/Shroeder, as in how much, when and where?

 

[604]

League minimum or nothing, and only after its proven in actual games neither Ebbett or Schroeder or Lappy work out on centre. It's a contract spot that will be wasted if he bombs it and gets sent to the A. Chicago will likely throw 2M at him and pray he can play 2C like they did with BMo last year.

Might as well go to the magic send down number...$900K.

Worst case scenario is we bury him in the minors if he doesn't work out...he can room with Cam Barker. He's going to have to be confident in his abilities to win the 2nd line centre job to sign here though, the guy probably has a lot more options that we expect.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I'm sorry, but you can always improve technically. Lots of NHL guys work with power skating coaches during the summer and they are long past Midget. The most recent that I can recall was Joe Colborne.

There are lots of tall guys with long legs who have no speed. People generate power and speed in different ways.

Hell, if you are playing Midget in the first place the chances of you making the NHL are probably pretty low in general.

Anyways, can we talk about Kassian/Shroeder, as in how much, when and where?

Major midget. 99% of junior A (college route) or major junior (CHL) played major midget or midget AAA (if you were born before 1987 i believe). the age range is 15-17, you cannot enter junior without special exemption (see McDavid) before the age of 16. So yeah, most NHLers have played at least a year of midget hockey.

And you can make small improvements but you can't drastically change your stride.

 

[canuck4life16]

scott Gomez or Jason Arnott???? both cup winners and members of the Devils

 

[mossey3535]

Major midget. 99% of junior A (college route) or major junior (CHL) played major midget or midget AAA (if you were born before 1987 i believe). the age range is 15-17, you cannot enter junior without special exemption (see McDavid) before the age of 16. So yeah, most NHLers have played at least a year of midget hockey.

And you can make small improvements but you can't drastically change your stride.

Yeah. As 15-year olds. That's a big difference.

Oates completely changed his stride. So did Brian Boyle. Where did you get this 'unique stride develops in midget' thing?

 

[thepuckmonster]

Yeah. As 15-year olds. That's a big difference.

Oates completely changed his stride. So did Brian Boyle. Where did you get this 'unique stride develops in midget' thing?

I never said unique. And Brian Boyle didn't change his stride, he changed his style of skating using a figure skater as a coach for more power.

Hodgson has been knocked for his stride since he was drafted and has done anything to improve upon it and he's turning 23. ****, the Sedins are terrible skaters despite the fact they actively train to better it every off season. They are a rarity because generally you aren't going to cut it as a top 6 with bad skating. You learn fundamentals of high end hockey in bantam and midget hockey, by the time you hit junior most coaches say your stride is developed as completely changing it is like learning to walk again. Hodgson hunches when he skates, doesn't bend his knees and exerts far more energy to pick up a reasonable pace. He has a lot of lower body power but he is not an efficient skater and due to the fact he's not big, it's a knock on him despite having great offensive skillset.

Comprende?

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Like most of us I've been skating since early childhood and I've never tried seriously to alter my skating stride, I feel like it would be extraordinarily difficult. I bet there is sports medicine literature covering this topic.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Like most of us I've been skating since early childhood and I've never tried seriously to alter my skating stride, I feel like it would be extraordinarily difficult. I bet there is sports medicine literature covering this topic.

A great deal of hockey development at young ages is off ice training with conditioning coaches that work with 11-14 year olds on skating stride, shooting technique and hitting so that once their junior career comes up they're adequately prepared and it becomes second nature.

 

[Shareefruck]

I'd take Gomez over Arnott very easily.