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Our roster game 6 against the Senators in 2017

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SnowblindNYR

SnowblindNYR

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Nov 16, 2011
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Brooklyn, NY
Unfortunately, while I found the GDT from that game the projected lines were blank. So here it is from hockey-reference.com, but not broken up by lines.

upload_2021-4-4_0-40-57.png


I don't remember what our third line was and I guarantee it was more productive than the kid line, but outside of that and maybe the third pair how is this roster better than our roster this year? Even Hank was past his prime and this was probably his last year as anything close to what he was, but he wasn't the same as what he was the second half of 2013-2014 and the entire 2014-2015 season. We all get on AV and he absolutely blew the Senators series with his personnel decisions but that team won a playoff round, almost won two, and finished with 102 points. This team just got punked by the worst team in 20 years and has been hovering around .500 all season. Mind you, the Rangers have had more injuries this year and the Panarin situation hurt a lot, plus Mika and Covid hurt, but in the end I've never ever seen a coach do less with more than Quinn.
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17futurecap said:
That’s a bunch of guys who played so many playoff games together. Great center depth, and a hall of fame goalie.

Just have to wait for the kids to get older, the waiting is the hardest part.

PS we should have given Fast the third year.
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Honestly, after Mika's awful start and that's not something to take lightly since it cost us a bunch of games, Mika in 2021, Strome, and Chytil (though he also missed games) is better to me than Mika in 2017, Stepan, and Hayes. And the hall of fame goalie wasn't quite playing at that level that season. That team scored a ton of goals. They had a 5 game stretch where they scored 5 or more goals. And that was before the scoring went up I believe.
 
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SnowblindNYR said:
Honestly, after Mika's awful start and that's not something to take lightly since it cost us a bunch of games, Mika in 2021, Strome, and Chytil (though he also missed games) is better to me than Mika in 2017, Stepan, and Hayes. And the hall of fame goalie wasn't quite playing at that level that season. That team scored a ton of goals. They had a 5 game stretch where they scored 5 or more goals. And that was before the scoring went up I believe.
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19 games started already between Kinkaid and Georgiev doesn’t help either. I really hope Igor can stay healthy going forward.
 
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You could throw anybody off the street out there to coach and Panarin would win you the same about games he's won for Quinn. His communication and development factor seems highly suspect with how our prospects are playing or just plain leave on us. His talent evaluation and player deployment also...highly suspect his entire tenure here. Laf and Kakko might be too good and dedicated to fail but I'm not willing to take that chance and we're doing them no favors right now either. I just can't see Quinn behind the bench next season at all. I get this mess of a covid season is close to over and management is all about supporting the staff for now but I have to think that behind closed doors they are discussing coaching candidates.
 
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There is no way going forward that guys like Laf and Kravtsov are going to be happy about getting scraps for ice time. The other night Laf got one shift in the third. But go ahead Quinny, put Blackwell on the PP.
 
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SML2 said:
There is no way going forward that guys like Laf and Kravtsov are going to be happy about getting scraps for ice time. The other night Laf got one shift in the third. But go ahead Quinny, put Blackwell on the PP.
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He's 19. It's not his team yet. He has to earn it.

It's not the worst thing in the world to force him to earn his ice time.
 
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I wouldn't say our team now is more talented. We have more potential but Kakko, Laf, Kravtsov, Chytil are not at the level of what Miller, Hayes, Stepan, Grabner at that time
 
SML2 said:
So you're telling me it's Blackwell's team? I must have missed the part where he paid his dues to get that spot.
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It's not Blackwell's team and it never will be. But he's earned more ice time than Laf. Like it or not, he's been an effective winger. He's playing above his pay grade.

Laf has a much higher upside obviously. But you're not teaching him to be a great player by letting him do "whatever" out there for 15 minutes a night with zero consequences. Make him make the most of his ice time just like - whether you want to admit it or not - Blackwell does.
 
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KirkAlbuquerque said:
I wouldn't say our team now is more talented. We have more potential but Kakko, Laf, Kravtsov, Chytil are not at the level of what Miller, Hayes, Stepan, Grabner at that time
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I think we have a higher end group of talent on defense with Fox, Miller, and Lingren than we did back then - as much as I loved McD in his prime. 2017 McD was a bit past that point.

We also have a higher end offensive threat with Panarin than any player on the roster from back then.

But yea, as far as center depth and wing depth, I would agree we are not yet back to the level we were back then. Our potential on wing is higher than it was back then, but I do not think we will get to the point where we had that much center depth in the next 2-3 years unless the team is going to be massively restructured in some way.
 
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I dislike Quinn for a lot of reasons but let's wait a couple of years before we bemoan losing with a good roster. We don't have a particularly good roster.

This 16-17 roster is largely unimpressive and it's better.

Stepan/Hayes in 2017 blows away Strome/Chytil in 2021.

Rick Nash was honestly really good and would have been even better if AV didn't essentially deploy him as a 3rd liner. Don't get me started on AV.

Even at the absolute height of the Dan Girardi Experience, he was never as bad as Hajek is now. Ditto for Staal. I only made the stink I did about Girardi because he played half the god damn game.

The current team has waaaay better top-end talent but the 16-17 team had four good forward lines. The current team has one good forward line, another line that's Team Canada a third of the games and non-existent two-thirds of the games, and two 4th lines.

The 2021 team looks good on paper when you consider the names Kakko and Lafreniere but they're prospects. They're great prospects. But *right now* Kakko is Jesper Fast and Lafreniere is a 3rd/4th line tweener.
 
the demise came when carl hagelin was traded for etem emerson the previous year

Rangers had another run in them but losing Hagelin for a bag of pucks was the end of the run for that team.

Hagelin then found his way onto the Pens and they literally won back to back cups because of having Hagelin on their team. he was their missing link
 
tailgunner said:
the demise came when carl hagelin was traded for etem emerson the previous year

Rangers had another run in them but losing Hagelin for a bag of pucks was the end of the run for that team.

Hagelin then found his way onto the Pens and they literally won back to back cups because of having Hagelin on their team. he was their missing link
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Kessel was a bigger reason they won the Cup, but yes. Hagelin was part of arguably the best 3rd line in post-lockout NHL hockey
 
Machinehead said:
I dislike Quinn for a lot of reasons but let's wait a couple of years before we bemoan losing with a good roster. We don't have a particularly good roster.

This 16-17 roster is largely unimpressive and it's better.

Stepan/Hayes in 2017 blows away Strome/Chytil in 2021.

Rick Nash was honestly really good and would have been even better if AV didn't essentially deploy him as a 3rd liner. Don't get me started on AV.

Even at the absolute height of the Dan Girardi Experience, he was never as bad as Hajek is now. Ditto for Staal. I only made the stink I did about Girardi because he played half the god damn game.

The current team has waaaay better top-end talent but the 16-17 team had four good forward lines. The current team has one good forward line, another line that's Team Canada a third of the games and non-existent two-thirds of the games, and two 4th lines.

The 2021 team looks good on paper when you consider the names Kakko and Lafreniere but they're prospects. They're great prospects. But *right now* Kakko is Jesper Fast and Lafreniere is a 3rd/4th line tweener.
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But you're comparing Girardi who played half the game to Hajek who doesn't play all that much. Our top 4 D is better this year even though Miller has had growing pains.
 
SnowblindNYR said:
But you're comparing Girardi who played half the game to Hajek who doesn't play all that much. Our top 4 D is better this year even though Miller has had growing pains.
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Yes, I would agree with that.

We outplay most teams. We just don't score enough.

Outside of the Panarin line, we really don't have a consistently good line.
 
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First of all, you vastly underestimate the value of experience. That team had grizzled playoff vets all over the place. Every forward line had at least one player who had been to multiple game 7s and been a part of deep playoff runs. Half the D too. In other words, it was a group very experienced at winning hockey games at that time of year. Talent isn’t enough.

Second of all, Hank might have seen his play take a dip in that regular season, but he was still elite Hank for most of those playoffs.
 
It is easy to say those NYR teams from 2012-2017 never won a cup. Never had a Crosby. Never had an Ovi. That is all true but those Lundy, Step, Zooks, Hags, Brassard, McD, Nash, Staal, Girardi, Miller, Hayes, Kreider teams should not be undervalued. They beat some Crosby and Ovi teams when those 2 superstars were in their primes. Those guys played the game and found a way to win even when they were not expected to win. 2014 was my second most enjoyable playoff run. It only trailed the 1979 playoff run for me. As much bashing as some of those players took, I look back and miss those guys. :)
 
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17futurecap said:
That’s a bunch of guys who played so many playoff games together. Great center depth, and a hall of fame goalie.

Just have to wait for the kids to get older, the waiting is the hardest part.

PS we should have given Fast the third year.
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I don't disagree that fast was worth it but i really don't know where we'd put him right now
 
I know this board and others love Fast but this team needs creative offense and puck carriers more than a guy like Fast imo.
 
Lines were a complete clusterf*** that year because of AV’s socialist ice-time distribution and Zibanejad/Nash injuries.

Also, dude, that team was so much deeper. They had six forwards score 40+ points and that’s not counting Nash and Zibanejad who missed like 25-33% of the season. :laugh:

*approx.*

Kreider-Stepan-Zuccarello
Nash-Zibanejad-Fast
Grabner-Hayes-Miller
Buchnevich-Lindberg-Vesey
Glass

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Holden
Skjei-Klein

Forwards
upload_2021-4-5_20-34-35.png


Forward Lines
upload_2021-4-5_20-32-38.png


Defense Pairs
upload_2021-4-5_20-33-27.png
 
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