- Mar 4, 2004
- 28,544
- 33,591
OT: Our biggest mistake was letting Jim Nill go
- Thread starter Steve Yzerlland
- Start date
I think he's given more direct answers since, but from what I remember it's always JImmy D who fingers owners in some way for refusing to really rebuild. Here he gives them some cover by including the whole organization is behind it, or that they're all getting older and not just the ilitch's, but it seemed clear it was a decision that came from the top.
- Jul 18, 2018
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lilidk
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2008
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Finnie, Lombardi, Mazur, Plante . I believe Draper is doing pretty good
KJoe88
Forever Lost.
Honestly KH strikes me as a person who’s full of himself.
Now look at him.
He ruined this team. Absolutely ruined it with his loyalty bullshit contracts and embarrassing draft pick choices.
Remember: we could’ve had Quinn Hughes despite Zadina falling. If his people knew anything they should’ve known he was bust. It’s why other teams passed on him.
I feel bad for L.A fans honestly.
Now look at him.
He ruined this team. Absolutely ruined it with his loyalty bullshit contracts and embarrassing draft pick choices.
Remember: we could’ve had Quinn Hughes despite Zadina falling. If his people knew anything they should’ve known he was bust. It’s why other teams passed on him.
I feel bad for L.A fans honestly.
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ricky0034
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- Jun 8, 2010
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2013? you sure about that? or is there a second time this happened that i'm somehow unaware of? because this is literally the first time i've heard of that and i've heard the 2010 one dozens of times
- Mar 4, 2004
- 28,544
- 33,591
i'd have to find the article again. Maybe that was the date of the article and not the date it happened? I'll see if I can dig it up.
I would argue that it's incredibly silly to think Ilitch offered the GM position of a multimillion dollar franchise to Yzerman purely to keep him "in the family." That's how you end up with years of mismanagement like the Oilers. Ilitch is the one who turned the Dead Things into a respectable hockey franchise. With his three core players being 28, 31, and 38, it's quite possible he saw the writing on the wall and wanted a younger voice.
But how the hell did I get sucked back into relitigating the Holland years? I wish the guy would just retire so I wouldn't wade back into these pointless discussions.
I should've just stuck with "Holland wasn't moving aside for Nill either. end of story."
Henkka
Registered User
19 for president
Registered User
- Apr 28, 2002
- 2,885
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Not rebuilding post Lids retirement/Suter not signing here was the wrong move, but if we don't land a top 3 draft pick I think we still end up in a similar spot. We just obviously get there sooner. I guess it depends on what you sell Datsyuk/Franzen/Kronner for... I think Z would not be dealt even if you had tanked early.
Not bombing on two top 10 draft picks would have also helped. Vilardi/Necas over Ras and Hughes/Dobson/Bouchard over Zadina would definitely have us in a better spot overall.
It is really hard to build in the NHL without a franchise level center.
Not bombing on two top 10 draft picks would have also helped. Vilardi/Necas over Ras and Hughes/Dobson/Bouchard over Zadina would definitely have us in a better spot overall.
It is really hard to build in the NHL without a franchise level center.
- Jul 18, 2018
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All bottom six players at best. Of course we need those players but we also need a gem or two.
lilidk
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Same age, same stage Zegras had 36 points in 33 NCAA games , Plante just had 28 points in 23 games. You never know kid still 19.
Redwing66
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2020
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Not sure what any of those guys bring...Draper has been anything but good in his current role. Losing Nill is an effect we can now see years afterward as a detrimental moment for the franchise.
- Jul 18, 2018
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Based on what? Potential? Literally every team has prospects like these.
FissionFire
Registered User
Nill has 2 worse contracts than anything Yzerman has done in Benn and Seguin and let’s not forget that he offered a massive deal to Klingberg which everyone is still confused as to why he didn’t accept it. Dallas would look way different with a Klingberg boat anchor on top of Benn and Seguin.
Henkka
Registered User
That Dallas Stars cap situation is really crazy.
They can't afford more than 1M deals for all the UFAs (Benn, Granlund, Duchene, Dadonov, Blackwell, Ceci, Smith) and would still go over the cap by ~2-3 millions, with existing contracts and short-term RFA signings.
Adding Rantanen 12M, and raises for Johnston 900k ELC --> 8.4M and Oettinger from 4.0M -->8.25M raise did create this situation.
At next year Robertson and Harley will need new deals, and they will eat all the cap growth, maybe more. Robertson projection is 11.9M at evolving-hockey. 10.4M for Harley. That's extra 5.15M+6.4M = 11.5M of raise in total.
1. Rantanen 12.0M
2. Seguin 9.85M
3. Hintz 8.45M
4. Johnston 8.4M
5. Robertson 7.75M
6. Marchment 4.5M
7. Steel 2.1M
8. Bourque RFA - 2.0M estimation
9. forward - 1.0M (Benn spot)
10.forward - 1.0M (Granlund spot)
11.forward - 1.0M (Duchene spot)
12.forward - 1.0M (Dadonov spot)
13. Oscar Bäck - 825k
1. Heiskanen - 8.45M
2. Lindell - 5.25M
3. Harley - 4.0M
4. Dumba - 3.75M
5. Lyubushkin - 3.25M
6. Lundqvist RFA - estimate 1.4M
7. Bichsel - 918k
8. Petrovic - 775k
1. Oettinger - 8.25M
2. DeSmith - 1.0M
Suter buyout 1.433M
Total:
98.35M
Cap:
95.5M
Cap overage: -2.85M
Even if you put Seguin on LTIR, you would get 6M of cap space help, but you still need to sign 4-5 players for 1.25-1.5M to fill those empty forward spots and stay under 6.0M for total values.
They can't afford more than 1M deals for all the UFAs (Benn, Granlund, Duchene, Dadonov, Blackwell, Ceci, Smith) and would still go over the cap by ~2-3 millions, with existing contracts and short-term RFA signings.
Adding Rantanen 12M, and raises for Johnston 900k ELC --> 8.4M and Oettinger from 4.0M -->8.25M raise did create this situation.
At next year Robertson and Harley will need new deals, and they will eat all the cap growth, maybe more. Robertson projection is 11.9M at evolving-hockey. 10.4M for Harley. That's extra 5.15M+6.4M = 11.5M of raise in total.
1. Rantanen 12.0M
2. Seguin 9.85M
3. Hintz 8.45M
4. Johnston 8.4M
5. Robertson 7.75M
6. Marchment 4.5M
7. Steel 2.1M
8. Bourque RFA - 2.0M estimation
9. forward - 1.0M (Benn spot)
10.forward - 1.0M (Granlund spot)
11.forward - 1.0M (Duchene spot)
12.forward - 1.0M (Dadonov spot)
13. Oscar Bäck - 825k
1. Heiskanen - 8.45M
2. Lindell - 5.25M
3. Harley - 4.0M
4. Dumba - 3.75M
5. Lyubushkin - 3.25M
6. Lundqvist RFA - estimate 1.4M
7. Bichsel - 918k
8. Petrovic - 775k
1. Oettinger - 8.25M
2. DeSmith - 1.0M
Suter buyout 1.433M
Total:
98.35M
Cap:
95.5M
Cap overage: -2.85M
Even if you put Seguin on LTIR, you would get 6M of cap space help, but you still need to sign 4-5 players for 1.25-1.5M to fill those empty forward spots and stay under 6.0M for total values.
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OgeeOgelthorpe
Need more Riccis per 60
- Feb 29, 2020
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Here’s the thing, if they picked better in 2015-2018 first and second rounds we’re talking about Detroit as an up and coming contender right now.
These are the guys all picked at max 5 spots after where Detroit picked in those years.
2015 - picked Svechnikov at 19
Boeser, Ericsson-Ekk, Samsonov, Konecny. We also traded the pick that became Hintz.
In the third we picked Saarijarvi at 73.
Vladar, Hill and Montembeault were 75, 76, 77.
2016 (traded Datsyuk’s contract for what became Cholowski at 20 and we missed on Chychrun)
Jones, Gauthier aren’t too impressive. Thompson went 6 after Cholowski.
In the second we picked Givani Smith.
Sam Girard was the next pick. There’s also Carter Hart (bullet dodged) and Lindgren.
2017 we got Rasmussen
Next up were Tippett, Vilardi, Necas, Suzuki
In the second we picked Lindstrom. Jason Robertson was next. Luostorainen and Samberg were nearby.
2018 we got Zadina
Hughes, Boqvist and Bouchard were right there. The early second round had names like Romanov and Samuelson and Mccleod there.
It was more than just bombing on top 10 picks. They lucked out by drafting Larkin who they thought would just be a 3C. They lucked out drafting Hronek who became ASP.
3 terrific draft classes and 1 soso class. Detroit could have walked away with 2 to 3 players per draft if they did zero scouting and just used CSB rankings!
They walked away with Hronek, Rasmussen, Berggren and Veleno as NHLers.
Is there any head scout as terrible at their job as Tyler Wright?
19 for president
Registered User
- Apr 28, 2002
- 2,885
- 1,794
I don't disagree. Our drafting was rank from the moment we stopped relying on Haken's team for any earlier picks. That Ryno, Grigs, Axelsson, Jarnkrok bit I think sent Holland for a loop. When he realized Euros had options besides wasting away in GR and could go elsewhere we largely stopped drafting them unless that had already come over.
We have yet to really see where Stevies non 1sts go but the Wright years were a mess. But hit on even one of the three firsts (Zadina, Ras, Veleno) and we are in a much better spot. Getting one ok 3rd liner in Ras out of those picks hurts and compounds the Cholo/Svech failures. Although I give a bit of a break on Svech, injuries just destroyed him.
Holland and Cos drafting early in the tank really did help set us back even further.
