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Our 3rd line without Hyman

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Gallagbi said:
I wonder if flipping Spezza/Simmonds does enough to matter.

Feels like Spezza has finish and hands, not a lot else, which is exactly what Engvall and Mik need.

Kerfoot needs someone else to pressure with him so he's not solo on the forecheck and backcheck. Simmonds can help there.
Click to expand...

Probably the best move. Simmonds hasn't done anything since coming back from his injury and I think Engvall can benefit more from Spezza than Kerfoot. Kerfoot brings enough on his own to not need a Spezza, and hopefully Thornton and Simmonds can find their games enough to help him out a bit.
 
My thoughts on Mikhayev and Engvall.
Both very solid at skating, tracking down pucks etc etc
But they really have a hard time confidently generating attacks.... it's like they've settled into the mentality of less is more. (Which isn't entirely bad)
If there's any time for sports psychology on players, it's these 2; flip the switch and get the bottom 6 identity we lack.
 
ottomaddox said:
Tonight Hyman was a much needed presence on the 1st line, but that 3rd line without him is fairly awful.

I know we can expect Hyman to be up and down, but in the playoffs this 3rd line will be eaten alive.

I don't quite have a solution other then possibly getting Robertson to play there.

What should Dubas/Keefe do?
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Because Simmonds has been awful.

That third line should be: Mik-Engvall-Kerfoot
Fourth line: Thornton-Spezza-Simmonds
 
  1. Hyman stays on first line and Dubas trades for a 3rd line winger
  2. Hyman stays on the 3rd line and Dubas trades for a winger for Matthews
its that simple and will depend on who is available and the cost and i highly doubt they take a chance on Robertson to fill one of those spots ... just my opinion so don't it personal
 
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Top 6 should be:

Hyman Matthews Marner
Galchenyuk Tavares Nylander

Spare: Robertson

Bottom 6 should be:

Kerfoot Engvall Mikheyev
Thornton/Barabanov Spezza Simmonds

You should not risk top 6 chemistry this late in the season. The third line needs tinkering.
 
Honestly while I think that you always want improvements from your players - I don't get why there is concern over our bottom six.

On the surface our third line production is essentially similar if not better then every other teams third line. That includes teams like Colorado, Washington, Boston, Florida, Tampa, Carolina etc. Top teams can't have scoring depth in their bottom six to a high degree as they have top players in the top of their lineup. I think it is absurd that some posters here think asking the third line to finish this season with more than 30 points each is crazy.

Could we add a player to improve the bottom of our lineup? Absolutely. But to suggest we have an issue is nonsense when the eye test and stats show that Ilya and Engvall have excelled at possession stats, zone exits and entries and cycling. They never get hemmed in their own zone and create a few chances a game which is exactly what you want from players making minimum in a salary cap world.
 
Hyman makes the third line a good checking group but also gives them some offense.
On that line he is the scorer and he takes the puck to the net.
They will need that line in the playoffs.
So , for me, they need a winger to play with Matthews/Marner.
 
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frizzer1 said:
Hyman makes the third line a good checking group but also gives them some offense.
On that line he is the scorer and he takes the puck to the net.
They will need that line in the playoffs.
So , for me, they need a winger to play with Matthews/Marner.
Click to expand...

IMO, Hyman makes that third line dangerous and able to match up against top lines and it gives us 3 legit good lines you can role which we will need in the playoffs, I think Dubas would like to trade for a winger to play with Matthews and Mitch
 
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egd27 said:
No time machine necessary.
Just start with our division's likely playoff teams. Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Montreal.
Click to expand...

Alright:

3rd line players and points

Montreal

Perry(13) Suzuki (22) Anderson (18)

Winnipeg

Copp (28) Lowry (12) Appleton (19)

Edmonton

Ennis (9) Haas (6) Kassian (5)

Toronto

Simmonds (6) Engvall (7) Mikheyev (11)

So 2 out of the 3 playoff teams should eat our 3rd line (for breakfast).

This is why it's so damn important for Hyman to return to the 3rd line.
 
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easy solution ... bench jumbo and simmonds for a while and try robertson/kerfoot on that line

kerfoot/robertson - engvall - mik
this might be one of the fastest lines in the league and they are all great defensively.

the problem is having kerfoot on the third line is you end up with a combination of jumbo, simmonds and spezza on the 4th line which might be the slowest and horrible lines. Thats a separate problem
 
ottomaddox said:
Alright:

3rd line players and points

Montreal

Perry(13) Suzuki (22) Anderson (18)

Winnipeg

Copp (28) Lowry (12) Appleton (19)

Edmonton

Ennis (9) Haas (6) Kassian (5)

Toronto

Simmonds (6) Engvall (7) Mikheyev (11)

So 2 out of the 3 playoff teams should eat our 3rd line (for breakfast).

This is why it's so damn important for Hyman to return to the 3rd line.
Click to expand...
Envious of The Jets 3rd , they have all the ingredients you want in a 3rd line
 
Ashdown2 said:
easy solution ... bench jumbo and simmonds for a while and try robertson/kerfoot on that line

kerfoot/robertson - engvall - mik
this might be one of the fastest lines in the league and they are all great defensively.

the problem is having kerfoot on the third line is you end up with a combination of jumbo, simmonds and spezza on the 4th line which might be the slowest and horrible lines. Thats a separate problem
Click to expand...

That is not an easy solution and you know it.
 
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ottomaddox said:
Alright:

3rd line players and points

Montreal

Perry(13) Suzuki (22) Anderson (18)

Winnipeg

Copp (28) Lowry (12) Appleton (19)

Edmonton

Ennis (9) Haas (6) Kassian (5)

Toronto

Simmonds (6) Engvall (7) Mikheyev (11)

So 2 out of the 3 playoff teams should eat our 3rd line (for breakfast).

This is why it's so damn important for Hyman to return to the 3rd line.
Click to expand...
I guess that's why the game results are the way they are on the scoresheet when the game is played on the ice...this means nothing.
 
Hyman is good enough to drive the third line, Mikheyev, Kerfoot and Engvall are not. Getting a 3C upgrade to drive that line would be optimal, but another winger that either can drive a line or allow Hyman to do so would work as well.
 
ottomaddox said:
Alright:

3rd line players and points

Montreal

Perry(13) Suzuki (22) Anderson (18)

Winnipeg

Copp (28) Lowry (12) Appleton (19)

Edmonton

Ennis (9) Haas (6) Kassian (5)

Toronto

Simmonds (6) Engvall (7) Mikheyev (11)

So 2 out of the 3 playoff teams should eat our 3rd line (for breakfast).

This is why it's so damn important for Hyman to return to the 3rd line.
Click to expand...

"Third liners" Suzuki and Anderson are #1 & #5 in TOI among Habs forwards. :rolleyes:
 
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ottomaddox said:
Alright:

3rd line players and points

Montreal

Perry(13) Suzuki (22) Anderson (18)

Winnipeg

Copp (28) Lowry (12) Appleton (19)

Edmonton

Ennis (9) Haas (6) Kassian (5)

Toronto

Simmonds (6) Engvall (7) Mikheyev (11)

So 2 out of the 3 playoff teams should eat our 3rd line (for breakfast).

This is why it's so damn important for Hyman to return to the 3rd line.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that Hyman is the "difference" maker to our 3rd line competing with the likes of Montreal's or Winnipegs -- not on his own. Even right now, Engvall & Mik generate chances with their speed and range, but they're all rush chances from defensive opportunities.

I've believed this from the beginning of the season, and will continue to believe it -- they need a different / better 3rd line centre. Maybe it's Sam Bennett (although he has struggled mightily), maybe it's Scott Laughton.
Somebody who can help dictate the play in the offensive zone, cycle, throw some hits.

When you face Montreal or Winnipeg in the playoffs, maybe the line becomes Hyman-Laughton-Simmonds. Maybe it "stays" Mikheyev-Laughton-Simmonds, but plays more in the offensive zone and sees Mik as the trigger-man on that line. Maybe it's Kerfoot on one of the wings.
 
Trade for a winger for 34-16 and reunite the ZIP line. That line when intact was capable of going against top 6 competition

Trade-34-16
12-91-88
65-47-11
24-15-19
 
If they do trade for a top 6 winger who can play with AM and Marner, I would slot Hyman back with JT and Willy. Hyman needs to make up for Willy's refusal to get down and dirty at puck retrieval. This frees up JT to be more successful as a trigger man. You now have a well rounded 2nd line. Third line got the speed but not the IQ nor finish, but Galchenyuk with Miky and Engvall might be more productive instead of 3 guys with speed to burn but can't finish. I wouldn't mind seeing Kerfoot on 4th with Spezza/simmonds/Jumbo who get rotated out as needed for rest.
 
I honestly wouldn’t be opposed to balling out at the deadline this year, just really, really going for it. Imagine something like:
  • Dermott and Andersen (with retention) for Driedger
  • Liljegren for Foligno (with retention)
  • Amirov and Kerfoot for Palmieri (with retention)
I think that could work cap-wise? And they seem like somewhat realistic deals value wise - we might have to mix in some 2nd/3rd round type picks, but those are probably close? Honestly specific players are somewhat interchangeable, the goal would be to grab 2 quality middle-6 wingers, and a quality backup goalie.

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Palmieri
Foligno - Spezza - Mikheyev
Galchenyuk - Engvall - Simmonds
Thornton

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Bogosian

Campbell
Driedger

That’s a team with a very legit shot at the cup. I’d do it.
 
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