News Article: Ottawa Senators Organization Actively Considering Building Arena At Lebreton Flats

[Holdurbreathe]

The CTC land alone is probably worth 10's of millions of dollars. Minto could be an entire community on CTC land. And as others have mentioned, the CTC could be turned into a shopping mall. Ottawa is short on retail space so it makes some sense.

Besides, if the NCC plays ball, the Sens should get a solid deal.

So Melnyk sells the CTC, moves his team to a stagnant downtown core, while the area he vacates continues to grow.

Not sure this makes good business sense considering the city's plans for light rail don't include anything beyond Bayshore for the foreseeable future.

IMO the NCC should only be involved after the province and city commit to financially supporting the construction of a new arena, just like what has occurred in Edmonton and Quebec City.

Otherwise it is just talk with little substance.

PS for those calling Melnyk scrooge, the cost of building a new arena could easily exceed $400M.

Now considering the team already carries ~$130M in debt, without some level of government funding it would appear some posters think Melnyk should carry 1/2 billion worth of debt just so they can attend hockey games downtown.

Of course after Melnyk paid the carrying cost on this debt there wouldn't be enough money to meet the cap minimum salary requirements.

 

[FuriousSenator]

The fun part of this thread is the people who assume that Ottawa residents will suddenly decide that public transit is worth taking to the game.
This is a city of people who drive.
If you don't make the site easily accessible by car, you're gonna have problems.

People need to be broken out of that habit then. One quick and easy way of doing that is to make the things they want only accessible by public transit or walking etc... The point of this move wouldn't be to appease the drivers in kanata, it would be to appeal to younger generation progressives living and working right downtown.

 

[FuriousSenator]

Actually it is quite easily accessible, due ot the closeness of thge Queensway.

If you put it in Lebreton flats with no access to the Queensway and you are in the east end it will take longer to get home from Lebreton than from Kanata.

Lets put it simply. Does Ottawa have an attnedance issue? No. Therefore why mess with it?

People who visited Ottawa posting in this thread disagree with you....

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1790781

 

[sens2k9]

People need to be broken out of that habit then. One quick and easy way of doing that is to make the things they want only accessible by public transit or walking etc... The point of this move wouldn't be to appease the drivers in kanata, it would be to appeal to younger generation progressives living and working right downtown.

So you think alienating the residents of Kanata, Orleans, Barrhaven, South Ottawa etc is the way to go?

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

So Melnyk sells the CTC, moves his team to a stagnant downtown core, while the area he vacates continues to grow.

Strip malls and car dealerships aren't exactly celebrated forms of growth.

 

[starling]

So you think alienating the residents of Kanata, Orleans, Barrhaven, South Ottawa etc is the way to go?

Yes.
That's why LRT is being built.
And it's the right thing to do.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

So you think alienating the residents of Kanata, Orleans, Barrhaven, South Ottawa etc is the way to go?

The residents of Kanata, Orleans, Barrhaven, South Ottawa etc alienated themselves by choosing to live where they do. They wanted isolation, they got it.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[Cat Herder]

a couple things

1. I am ok with the arena where it is (nice and easy to get to when I come in from the west )

2. If the CTC is sold, it will NOT be for the building, it will be for the land. The land is still worth a lot

3. Sens may get `Pennies on the dollar`for the building`s original price, but Melnyk bought it out of bankruptcy for a steal and has sold the land surrounding it to recoup the original output.. anything he gets now is gravy

 

[Sensored]

So you think alienating the residents of Kanata, Orleans, Barrhaven, South Ottawa etc is the way to go?

Lol who's saying you wouldn't be able to drive to the game? There's a bunch of parking lots downtown for our office workers and they'd be empty since most games are at 7:30. You could just park there and take the LRT 1 stop. It'd probably be cheaper than the $13 the Sens charge too.

It's really a no-brainer to move the arena downtown. Hopefully the NCC leases the land to the Sens for 100 years for $1, then MAYBE it makes financial sense for Melynk over the long-term. The only real potential issue i can see arising is that Melynk may expect tax payers to fund his new arena ala Edmonton.

 

[Proust*]

Too many obstacles. The NCC may just award the land to a proposal which better fits its criteria for development.

 

[Micklebot]

Only in Ottawa would fans legitimately complain about building an arena downtown...

The strange part is it isn't the not in my backyard complaints.

 

[Sensored]

Only in Ottawa would fans legitimately complain about building an arena downtown...

The strange part is it isn't the not in my backyard complaints.

It's unbelievable how many people are complaining. Bunch of negative people in this forum, an arena downtown would be amazing. Imagine 20,000 coming out of the building after a huge playoff win and being able to celebrate! Instead of running to their cars and spending 2 hours in traffic driving home...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

People need to be broken out of that habit then. One quick and easy way of doing that is to make the things they want only accessible by public transit or walking etc... The point of this move wouldn't be to appease the drivers in kanata, it would be to appeal to younger generation progressives living and working right downtown.

Actually, I'd say a big part of the problem is OC Transpo and the city of Ottawa itself. Sens games are known as being family friendly, and that is not something you can say about most of the people using the buses after sundown these days.

OC Transpo & the city will have to work double time to clean up our public transit to make it both safe and reliable before people put their trust back into that operation.

 

[sens2k9]

It's unbelievable how many people are complaining. Bunch of negative people in this forum, an arena downtown would be amazing. Imagine 20,000 coming out of the building after a huge playoff win and being able to celebrate! Instead of running to their cars and spending 2 hours in traffic driving home...

I think it's naive to assume that moving the arena downtown will somehow change this. The majority of people at the arena will still drive there and will still be stuck in "2 hours of traffic" getting home (btw I don't live in Kanata and it never, EVER, takes me more than a half hour to get home from the arena.)
You do realize that the bulk of this city's population lives well outside the downtown core and will not be using public transit?
I'm not arguing that moving the arena downtown would be a poor choice in any city that has the infrastructure to support it.
Ottawa is just not that city.

 

[Sensored]

Actually, I'd say a big part of the problem is OC Transpo and the city of Ottawa itself. Sens games are known as being family friendly, and that is not something you can say about most of the people using the buses after sundown these days.

OC Transpo & the city will have to work double time to clean up our public transit to make it both safe and reliable before people put their trust back into that operation.

Are you being serious right now? Ottawa is one of the safest cities in North America. If your sheltered children can't handle being on a public bus for fear of seeing a poor person than how are they going to function in everyday life.

 

[StittsvilleJames]

I'm all for moving the arena. I rarely go to games, and because my bus goes to CTC on the way home (261 represent!!) on game nights sometimes there's weirdos on it. I dislike weirdos



My biggest concern is in dealing with the NCC to do anything that benefits the city only, and not the country.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

It's really bizarre that people are complaining about having an arena downtown, smack in the middle of the NCR where people from all over the city can more easily attend games. Sure, the residents in the western and parts of the southern suburbs may have to actually commute to go to games, but 2/3s of the NCR's population - Gatineau, Orleans, the downtown core, Alta Vista, Vanier, etc. - can now get to games much easier. As others have mentioned, there will be plenty of parking downtown, so that won't be an issue. Using public transit will also be much easier since people will be going in all directions instead of just one.

It also caters to those who work downtown. Instead of having to commute to Kanata, those employed downtown can stay. They don't have to leave. It'll create a boom for the restaurants and bars that end up being created in the area.

And for those who say the NCR likely won't accept an arena at Lebreton, I think they strong will because they want to completely regentrify the area and create a mix of public and private space, much like what is happening with Lansdowne. A downtown arena with a variety of shops, restaurants, bars, and maybe another museum or two in addition to the residential housing developments going on in the area will finally create a space that people want to visit. Building a downtown arena is a no-brainer.

Regarding the CTC, it'll be sold and used for something, whether a mall or a massive cinema complex. I highly doubt the Science and Technology is moved out there because it wouldn't get much foot traffic. A big reason why the NCR wants to move the current S&T (besides the outdated and unsafe building) is that it doesn't generate much revenue and those who visit the museum are predominantly local school children. As such, expect the new S&T museum to also be downtown and hopefully near the War Museum to create a "museum boulevard" like many European cities have. It's important to make the city more accessible to tourists and for residents alike.

 

[Smash88]

It's unbelievable how many people are complaining. Bunch of negative people in this forum, an arena downtown would be amazing. Imagine 20,000 coming out of the building after a huge playoff win and being able to celebrate! Instead of running to their cars and spending 2 hours in traffic driving home...

It would be better but not ideal. Lebreton is not downtown, it's at least a 30 minute walk to the market. Not very many people will walk that much.

There isn't very much around that area. Actually closest would be the 15 minute walk across the bridge and into Hull, and again don't think too many people would do that.

 

[Ohhh Franco]

For all of those people *****ing about the potential traffic chaos...

http://storage.ottawasun.com/v1/suns-prod-images/1297477471525_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Are you being serious right now? Ottawa is one of the safest cities in North America. If your sheltered children can't handle being on a public bus for fear of seeing a poor person than how are they going to function in everyday life.

Lol, yeah, exposing kids to fighting, pissing, drunken stupors, and the occasional robbery on the bus is great wholesome family entertainment.

 

[Sensored]

I think it's naive to assume that moving the arena downtown will somehow change this. The majority of people at the arena will still drive there and will still be stuck in "2 hours of traffic" getting home (btw I don't live in Kanata and it never, EVER, takes me more than a half hour to get home from the arena.)
You do realize that the bulk of this city's population lives well outside the downtown core and will not be using public transit?
I'm not arguing that moving the arena downtown would be a poor choice in any city that has the infrastructure to support it.
Ottawa is just not that city.

I understand that Ottawa currently does not have the infrastructure to support it right now and that the majority of citizens live in the suburbs. But you have to look 10-15 years into the future. With LRT from Place d'Orleans to Bayshore you could use the park and ride to get to the arena or park in a parking lot downtown. Currently, 20,000 go see the Redblacks and that's with buses and no parking. There'd be more access to parking at Lebreton, and a train station a 2 minute walk away. It's a no brainer.

 

[otown]

You would be hard pressed to find an urban planner who wouldn't support a move to Lebreton. Growth breeds growth and the economic ripple effects to the city as a whole would be exceptional.
A central location for east and west residents and a transportation network to support it is the logical way to go. That being said, in this city, I'll believe it when I see it!

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

Actually, I'd say a big part of the problem is OC Transpo and the city of Ottawa itself. Sens games are known as being family friendly, and that is not something you can say about most of the people using the buses after sundown these days.

As categorically false as that is, that's the perception that car drivers have of public transportation ("Ewww, people in a lower income tax bracket than me! *insert poor person stereotype*").

I'm on the bus a few times a week, often after sundown. The notion that drunkards and rapists are prevalent is nowhere near true, especially on the buses that serve the CTC. But the suburbanites won't stop believing any time soon that they've avoided some ungodly scourge by not having to lower themselves to using a bus to get where they need to be, and won't be exiting their little other-people-proof metal-and-plastic cocoons anytime soon.

Lol, yeah, exposing kids to fighting, pissing, drunken stupors, and the occasional robbery on the bus is great wholesome family entertainment.

You'll have to provide me of a list of any time any of that has happened on a bus whose origin or destination was the CTC. Even at 2am coming out of the market I haven't seen that.

But your anecdotal evidence that taking a bus is on par with a vacation in Serbia is noted.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

I think it's naive to assume that moving the arena downtown will somehow change this. The majority of people at the arena will still drive there and will still be stuck in "2 hours of traffic" getting home (btw I don't live in Kanata and it never, EVER, takes me more than a half hour to get home from the arena.)
You do realize that the bulk of this city's population lives well outside the downtown core and will not be using public transit?
I'm not arguing that moving the arena downtown would be a poor choice in any city that has the infrastructure to support it.
Ottawa is just not that city.

They won't be stuck in traffic for 2 hours because:

1) People will be going in all directions instead of one, which is the currently the case. To get to the game, the vast majority of people need to drive west to get to the game. To leave the game, the vast majority of people travel east to get home, whether they live in Bells Corners/Nepean, around the downtown core, in Gatineau, Orleans, etc. A downtown arena actually makes going and leaving the game much, much easier. Not everyone who lives outside the city lives in the west end.

2) The LRT will be in place, which will ease congestion even further. You can't ignore this.

 

[Sensored]

Lol, yeah, exposing kids to fighting, pissing, drunken stupors, and the occasional robbery on the bus is great wholesome family entertainment.

It sounds like the last time you took public transportation was at 3am on Canada Day . Who would take public transit if they got beat up, pissed on, robbed and yelled at by a drunk guy lmao. You no more likely to have any of those things happen on a public train than at the arena itself.