GDT: Ottawa Senators at Seattle Kraken - 10PM - TSN5/RDS - Kraken Green Eggs and Hamonic with and Ice-Cold Sens Coffee

[Burrowsaurus]

They ran into a hot goaltender. Wonder where Seattle got him from.

Sucks. But every single play competed last night.

I still don’t know why Martin kept the “leave the points in the d zone” that DJ deployed. Other teams are always covering our points.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

When you got a team full of $4-5M players with 1-3 years left on their deals going up against a team that has $8M players on 8 year deals. One is hungry and had to fight for their current and future contracts, whilw one has nothing to play for and already set up for their rest of their lives.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

When you got a team full of $4-5M players with 1-3 years left on their deals going up against a team that has $8M players on 8 year deals. One is hungry and had to fight for their current and future contracts, whilw one has nothing to play for and already set up for their rest of their lives.

You don’t think the guys fought last night ?

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

You don’t think the guys fought last night ?

Soft plays from our $8M players leading directly to goals.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Soft plays from our $8M players leading directly to goals.

Soft plays or bad plays. The 3rd goal stutzle made a dumb play.

2nd goal. I mean. Yeah chabot went for the puck but that shit happens. Why is Tatar that free? No backcheck which is tough because the guys back checked hard last night, they don’t do it once and it’s a goal.

Kraken also f***ed up. But didn’t get scored on.

The kids are just learning the VERY hard way that every shift you have to be 100% on.

 

[Alex1234]

The last few years the disappointment was just for the individual lost seasons but this year it’s a realization that this core isn’t it and Dorion’s rebuild was a failed one. It’s pretty depressing to go through such a long rebuild and this is what they built.

Yeah
Before there was some hope that Norris would come back and they would get better

Now the future is mehh

The core is just bad

29th in the league bad

 

[Big Muddy]

We scored just one goal last night. Sometimes we manage to score just 2 goals. Not the first time. Guess we'll have to take a break for a few minutes from blaming things on our goalies.

 

[Big Muddy]

I feel like this game they played pretty good overall but Seattle played a perfect game at home. They play the way Jacques Martin is trying to make this team play. Relentless forecheck and pressure offensively and defensively. That's how they win, their players bought into this system and while they don't have any stars on their team they have great depth and everyone plays hard and fast. Their D kept us to the outside. We took a lot of perimeter shots because of it and we weren't able to attack the middle of the ice. Daccord played an perfect game.

We played 55 minutes tonight and it's a pretty big improvement over 20-40 which has been the case for this season. Korpisalo had a great game. I thought the team overall was more aggressive defensively and closing gaps quicker.

We need more for sure, especially from the leaders of this team, but that was a step in the right direction towards how this team needs to play. It's not there yet but it's better than it was. Joseph and Pinto should also make things interesting and give Martin a lot more options. I'm curious to see how things line up when the roster is full.

Yes, creating offense from playing good defense. It works quite well.

 

[Micklebot]

Should have kept Talbot

They tried to, he didn't want to stick around.

 

[Micklebot]

This is all that really matters
View attachment 796273

These things do a really poor job accounting for score effect, it was pretty much the reverse after two periods, so 20 mins with a 3 goal lead, Seattle can basically stop taking offensive chances knowing their lead should hold up,

 

[Tuna99]

These things do a really poor job accounting for score effect, it was pretty much the reverse after two periods, so 20 mins with a 3 goal lead, Seattle can basically stop taking offensive chances knowing their lead should hold up,

Stats are for losers and final scores are for winners.

But just a few bounces and an injury here or there has really sunk this team. Dean Browns philosophy of Chabot being out doesn’t seem to hold water because this team can suck with any lineup Bd any team on any night. We’ll find a way to be embarrassed no matter what

 

[DueDiligence]

I honestly thought we'd at least be playing better than this on the western road trip after winning 3 out of 4 prior to it, but it's still the same mental mistakes and lack of poise overall. Martin must be losing patience already.

It was spot on on my part to suggest it would take a month minimum to start seeing any major improvement. There's just too many bad habits burnt into their brains.

Well they didn't get steamrolled and they ran into a hot goaltender. But this team can't afford even occasional brainfarts that end up in the back of the net. It would be nice to see the occasional game where they played well from start to finish without glaring mistakes.
And it would be great to have one of the goalies go on a run like Daccord is on right now.

 

[Big Muddy]

Well they didn't get steamrolled and they ran into a hot goaltender. But this team can't afford even occasional brainfarts that end up in the back of the net. It would be nice to see the occasional game where they played well from start to finish without glaring mistakes.
And it would be great to have one of the goalies go on a run like Daccord is on right now.

We will also have to find a way of scoring more than one goal I'd think. And, as a footnote, the one goal we did score was late in the 3rd period, so rather meaningless.

 

[DueDiligence]

We scored just one goal last night. Sometimes we manage to score just 2 goals. Not the first time. Guess we'll have to take a break for a few minutes from blaming things on our goalies.

Well can't blame our goalies but then again you can't praise them either. Why can't one go on a heater?
For example in his last 12 games Daccord has allowed more than 2 goals just once. In his last five games he has allowed only five goals. Not surprisingly Seattle has won all five.

 

[Micklebot]

Stats are for losers and final scores are for winners.

But just a few bounces and an injury here or there has really sunk this team. Dean Browns philosophy of Chabot being out doesn’t seem to hold water because this team can suck with any lineup Bd any team on any night. We’ll find a way to be embarrassed no matter what

Winners effectively use the data available to figure out what's working and what isn't, then fill the gaps, losers either ignore the tools available or simply are capable of using them effectively.

 

[Alex1234]

Stats are for losers and final scores are for winners.

But just a few bounces and an injury here or there has really sunk this team. Dean Browns philosophy of Chabot being out doesn’t seem to hold water because this team can suck with any lineup Bd any team on any night. We’ll find a way to be embarrassed no matter what

Every other team in the league is chasing the 2 points

We are chasing (Xcf% times GF/G )minus (goalie S% times Chabot TOI at 5v5)

 

[Senator Stanley]

Soft plays or bad plays. The 3rd goal stutzle made a dumb play.

2nd goal. I mean. Yeah chabot went for the puck but that shit happens. Why is Tatar that free? No backcheck which is tough because the guys back checked hard last night, they don’t do it once and it’s a goal.

Kraken also f***ed up. But didn’t get scored on.

The kids are just learning the VERY hard way that every shift you have to be 100% on.

The 2nd goal all starts with Kubalik (who is not a kid) being extremely soft on the puck and turning it over instead of getting it in deep.

It's not all that different from the Stutzle 3rd goal, in that an unnecessary turnover leads to a counter attack and the defense being put in a tough position (and not handling that particularly well). In both cases there are multiple breakdowns, but the root cause is soft plays by the forwards.

I have slightly more sympathy for Stutzle, because unlike Kubalik, Stutzle taking a risk might actually lead to something positive. It's like the difference between Erik Karlsson taking a risk and Travis Hamonic. But with the way things have been going, and at that point in the game, Stutzle needs to just put that puck in the corner.

 

[BondraTime]

Every other team in the league is chasing the 2 points

We are chasing (Xcf% times GF/G )minus (goalie S% times Chabot TOI at 5v5)

Yeah, the expected stats and all that is just stuff for some fans to discuss, has little to nothing to do with the game or what the stats department are doing

 

[Big Muddy]

Well can't blame our goalies but then again you can't praise them either. Why can't one go on a heater?
For example in his last 12 games Daccord has allowed more than 2 goals just once. In his last five games he has allowed only five goals. Not surprisingly Seattle has won all five.

In the intermission they've showed how many goalies we've used over the last few years. I believe we set a record for that. It doesn't seem to matter who is in net. And the same goalies look good on other teams. I guess we could believe that is just a mere coincidence.

Our goalies have been bad. There is no doubt about that. If people see these posts as an attempt to defend our goaltending, they would be getting the wrong idea. I'm certainly not "praising them".

But, I'd really wonder how far we'd actually get with better goaltending if everything else remained the same?

I guess it also depends on the objective. Maybe for some just scrapping in to the playoffs is the goal. For others, they want to make some noise in the playoffs and set deep playoff runs over several years as the minimal objective. JMHO but if we had better goaltending, we won't achieve the loftier goal if everything else remained the same. And, if the team in front of goalies played better, I'd think our goalie performance would be noticeably better.

I just think it was relevant to point out that we only scored one goal last night and that our tender had a decent game. If that rubs some people the wrong way, it is unfortunate.

However, I doubt anything I say will have an impact, so I'm not going to get into a big debate over it. I don't come to this site as much as I used to. Its really hard to have a nuanced discussion which is unfortunate.

 

[Micklebot]

In the intermission they've showed how many goalies we've used over the last few years. I believe we set a record for that. It doesn't seem to matter who is in net. And the same goalies look good on other teams. I guess we could believe that is just a mere coincidence.

Our goalies have been bad. There is no doubt about that. If people see these posts as an attempt to defend our goaltending, they would be getting the wrong idea. I'm certainly not "praising them".

But, I'd really wonder how far we'd actually get with better goaltending if everything else remained the same?

I guess it also depends on the objective. Maybe for some just scrapping in to the playoffs is the goal. For others, they want to make some noise in the playoffs and set deep playoff runs over several years as the minimal objective. JMHO but if we had better goaltending, we won't achieve the loftier goal if everything else remained the same. And, if the team in front of goalies played better, I'd think our goalie performance would be noticeably better.

I just think it was relevant to point out that we only scored one goal last night and that our tender had a decent game. If that rubs some people the wrong way, it is unfortunate.

However, I doubt anything I say will have an impact, so I'm not going to get into a big debate over it. I don't come to this site as much as I used to.

I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

Teams who lack confidence in their goalies often end up playing worse as a result, they worry about every mistake ending up in the back of the net and start second guessing every decision. You can't play that way.

Meanwhile, goalies need to trust the team in front of them will cover their guy, otherwise they end up worrying about the backdoor plays, cheat, or play deep in the net.

How do you 'reset' and break the cycle. JM is trying to go back to basics. Maybe that ends up working, but so far all we've seen is 'here we go again ' moments.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The 2nd goal all starts with Kubalik (who is not a kid) being extremely soft on the puck and turning it over instead of getting it in deep.

It's not all that different from the Stutzle 3rd goal, in that an unnecessary turnover leads to a counter attack and the defense being put in a tough position (and not handling that particularly well). In both cases there are multiple breakdowns, but the root cause is soft plays by the forwards.

I have slightly more sympathy for Stutzle, because unlike Kubalik, Stutzle taking a risk might actually lead to something positive. It's like the difference between Erik Karlsson taking a risk and Travis Hamonic. But with the way things have been going, and at that point in the game, Stutzle needs to just put that puck in the corner.

Yeah forgot about Kubalik there. And I mentioned it last night. Yeah. He has FULL control of the puck. And that opp player simple pushes him off. And the puck quickly gets turned the other way.

 

[Tuna99]

In the intermission they've showed how many goalies we've used over the last few years. I believe we set a record for that. It doesn't seem to matter who is in net. And the same goalies look good on other teams. I guess we could believe that is just a mere coincidence.

Our goalies have been bad. There is no doubt about that. If people see these posts as an attempt to defend our goaltending, they would be getting the wrong idea. I'm certainly not "praising them".

But, I'd really wonder how far we'd actually get with better goaltending if everything else remained the same?

I guess it also depends on the objective. Maybe for some just scrapping in to the playoffs is the goal. For others, they want to make some noise in the playoffs and set deep playoff runs over several years as the minimal objective. JMHO but if we had better goaltending, we won't achieve the loftier goal if everything else remained the same. And, if the team in front of goalies played better, I'd think our goalie performance would be noticeably better.

I just think it was relevant to point out that we only scored one goal last night and that our tender had a decent game. If that rubs some people the wrong way, it is unfortunate.

However, I doubt anything I say will have an impact, so I'm not going to get into a big debate over it. I don't come to this site as much as I used to. Its really hard to have a nuanced discussion which is unfortunate.

Can Talbot is an All Star this year and could win a Cup. Makes sense

 

[Big Muddy]

I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

Teams who lack confidence in their goalies often end up playing worse as a result, they worry about every mistake ending up in the back of the net and start second guessing every decision. You can't play that way.

Meanwhile, goalies need to trust the team in front of them will cover their guy, otherwise they end up worrying about the backdoor plays, cheat, or play deep in the net.

How do you 'reset' and break the cycle. JM is trying to go back to basics. Maybe that ends up working, but so far all we've seen is 'here we go again ' moments.

Yes, it works both ways. Yes, I hope Jacques and Alfie can turn this around. I think their goal is to use good defense to create offense. That's often been a formula for success.

As an aside, it seemed like many times we made a mistake (or multiple mistakes in a short span of time) last night, the puck ended up in the back of our net. At least we weren't down 5 goals after the 1st period. We didn't play badly last night, but the errors that were made were costly.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes, it works both ways. Yes, I hope Jacques and Alfie can turn this around. I think their goal is to use good defense to create offense. That's often been a formula for success.

As an aside, it seemed like many times we made a mistake (or multiple mistakes in a short span of time) last night, the puck ended up in the back of our net. At least we weren't down 5 goals after the 1st period. We didn't play badly last night, but the errors that were made were costly.

Yeah, I'd agree with that assessment, you can deal with one mistake, but when when multiple mistakes are made in short order they compound

I don't even think goaltending was bad last night, a rebound goal, a breakaway, a two one one where they let the puck get to the middle of the ice and an EN. Can't blame Korpisalo on any of those and he made some great saves in between, I'm happy if he continues to play like that, I think he gave us a good chance to win that game, Daccord was just a little bit better (there were two or three really close chances).

 

[Big Muddy]

Yeah, I'd agree with that assessment, you can deal with one mistake, but when when multiple mistakes are made in short order they compound

I don't even think goaltending was bad last night, a rebound goal, a breakaway, a two one one where they let the puck get to the middle of the ice and an EN. Can't blame Korpisalo on any of those and he made some great saves in between, I'm happy if he continues to play like that, I think he gave us a good chance to win that game, Daccord was just a little bit better (there were two or three really close chances).

Seattle capitalized on their chances as well. They play a structured game and roll 4 lines even though they don't have star players. There is something to be learned from them.