GDT: Ottawa Senators at NJ Devils - 7PM - Sportsnet / TVAS2 - Winning is NOT an Option Edition

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Gilbert is not an NHL D who can replace Kleven, even if Kleven is barely hanging on as a #6.

I might dress him for the upcoming Montreal game or something if the entire D-core is healthy since we're almost playing with 5 defenseman when we dress him. His job would be to stand up to Xhekaj. But expecting him to come in and play anything more than 10 minutes of sheltered hockey is not realistic.

He has an important role for when he is needed, I am not saying this to disparage the player. But if you're disappointed with Kleven's play in his current role, replacing him with Gilbert isn't the answer. He's not a regular everyday NHL defender who you can depend on to play 15+ minutes.

 

[JackieDaytona]

It's like when a girl comes on to me. Shaky legs and heavy sweating until nothing happens and life goes on as usual. It's the 'moral' victories that count in the end tho.

Poor girls. Give them a break though, you’re a beautiful man with high standards. What’s a girl to do.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Not really.

They have replacement level talent on the way with the exception of Demodov.

Do they have an upgrade on their 1C?

An upgrade on their top pair D?

I don't think so.

I mean, their #1C is 25 and signed long term, their #1D just turned 21, and they do have a legit #1 goalie in the pipeline in Jacob Fowler. With Demidov and Michael Hage coming soon as well, they'll also have a pretty good 2nd line in a few years too. They have plenty of other prospects who will provide depth down the line so yeah, they really do have a good amount of talent on the way, and MSL is a fantastic coach.

They're going to be our main rival for years to come, and we'll need to start filling up our own cupboards to keep up in the future.

 

[lang006]

Gaudette is such a strange player...

So often I'm frustrated with his play, he's doing more than should be expected offensively from a 4th liner, so it's not the bothed chances, but rather the in zone play.

He doesn't fit the archetype for a 4th liner, he's not an energy guy, he's not a hard forchecker and he isn't a particularly good defensive player, but yet despite that eye test he is best on the team in GA/60 at 1.37/60 and 3rd in xGA/60 at 2.19

I think usage is a big part of that, he's very much getting high oz starts and low QOC, I'm an advocate of having a fourth line that can wear down the opposition with physical play, and play a more defensive role, and he really isn't that, so the success he has might be cannibalizing opportunity for the top lines to be more successful.

Idk that Lazar is the answer, I want 2 more cousins on that line, but I do think Lazar is the right archetype for what I want.

Yeah I agree on Gaudette. When all the top 6-8 forwards are healthy enough to play I think he should likely just be scratched. He can play a game here and there on a scoring line and not hurt you and may even get hot like we saw start of year. As for fixture on the 4th line there is really no point having him in that role.

 

[DrEasy]

Its pretty wild how everyone else forgets its an NHL opponent over there playing from behind at home on a Saturday night.

Good to have you back, bert!

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don't think you really can, it's far more tiring playing defense, stingy defense is fine, but you got to turn that into pressure down ice to give yourself time to complete the change and be in position to slow down the impeding rush, defense isn't just from the blue line in, it starts with the forcherckers.


We should just let them score rather than clear the puck I guess.

Yeah that’s what I meant.

We HAVE played incredible defence this very season lol. And totally put the other team to sleep THIS YeAR.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You guys getting wound up about how we win and how we lose. Nothing should matter except the record this year. We've been out of the playoffs for ages, we're not in a position to be dissecting whether we lost respectably or won in dominating fashion. Wins and losses. That's it. We need wins to get in to the playoffs. Who gives a f*** if we win 10 games this year putting up miserable advanced stats?

Well don’t need to watch for that. Just check the box score and that’s it you’ve seen all you need to see

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Believe it or not the other team wants to win too.

Well I suppose that can be the excuse at any time

 

[bert]

I'm thrilled with the win but always looking for ways we can improve. I think it's fair to point out where we need to improve, this being a discussion board, it tends to be more interesting to talk about what can be fixed than what's working.

What I don't get is people saying we're playing poorly overall, we clearly did a lot of good things, probably could have had a bigger lead if not for some some missed chances and big saves.

The execution really hasn't been there but this team is winning. That's a sign they are a good team, teams that win when they aren't playing their best are good. 82 games you aren't going to be at your best every night. But that was a really good game against a good opponent they should have been up by more than 2 but Allen played well. The push back was inevitable.

 

[Norris4Norris]

The execution really hasn't been there but this team is winning. That's a sign they are a good team, teams that win when they aren't playing their best are good. 82 games you aren't going to be at your best every night. But that was a really good game against a good opponent they should have been up by more than 2 but Allen played well. The push back was inevitable.

The big difference between this year and last is Ullmark. Without him on the nights that we were not on top of our game we would have simply lost and wouldn't be in a playoff spot at all.

 

[Hotsam Batcho]

 

[bert]

Gilbert is not an NHL D who can replace Kleven, even if Kleven is barely hanging on as a #6.

I might dress him for the upcoming Montreal game or something if the entire D-core is healthy since we're almost playing with 5 defenseman when we dress him. His job would be to stand up to Xhekaj. But expecting him to come in and play anything more than 10 minutes of sheltered hockey is not realistic.

He has an important role for when he is needed, I am not saying this to disparage the player. But if you're disappointed with Kleven's play in his current role, replacing him with Gilbert isn't the answer. He's not a regular everyday NHL defender who you can depend on to play 15+ minutes.

He's not that bad.

 

[bert]

Well I suppose that can be the excuse at any time

Touche, my point is a team is down they are going to push its natural.

Colorado blew a 3 goal lead on the road. Even the best teams feel it.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

He's not that bad.

He's fine in his role, the post wasn't meant to say he is a bad player. I am happy with the acquisition and he brings something we need.

What I am getting at is that people are disappointed by Kleven who plays a larger role and are suggesting we remedy it by subbing in a player who has a completely different job and has never shown an ability to play the role that Kleven is (according to these other posters) not living up to.

It doesn't seem like a realistic suggestion. If people were to suggest, let's dress Gilbert and let him do his thing and fill the void left by scratching Kleven on the bottom pair by committee, sure.

This is an exaggeration, but it would be like saying Sanderson is struggling, let's play Mantinpalo in his role.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

View attachment 998350

If you see a guy outside the CTC selling this image heat pressed to bootleg t-shirts, come say hi.

 

[Hotsam Batcho]

If you see a guy outside the CTC selling this image heat pressed to bootleg t-shirts, come say hi.

He'll be wearing a Cody Ceci jersey no doubt.

 

[Hotsam Batcho]

Touche, my point is a team is down they are going to push its natural.

Colorado blew a 3 goal lead on the road. Even the best teams feel it.

Nothing but rispek for the Montreal Canadiens for coming back from a 3 goal deficit.

 

[bert]

He's fine in his role, the post wasn't meant to say he is a bad player. I am happy with the acquisition and he brings something we need.

What I am getting at is that people are disappointed by Kleven who plays a larger role and are suggesting we remedy it by subbing in a player who has a completely different job and has never shown an ability to play the role that Kleven is (according to these other posters) not living up to.

It doesn't seem like a realistic suggestion. If people were to suggest, let's dress Gilbert and let him do his thing and fill the void left by scratching Kleven on the bottom pair by committee, sure.

This is an exaggeration, but it would be like saying Sanderson is struggling, let's play Mantinpalo in his role.

Kleven has now played the most games he has ever played in a season. Its ok to mix up the lineup in a season this long and grueling when he hasnt done it before. He is less physical right now and he looks like he is just surviving. I am the biggest Kleven guy out there but I think its also important everyone gets reps. If everyone is contributing thats good for the team too. There could be an injury any time I think getting him in for a game or two isnt the worst idea. I dont think it effects the team bottom line that much.

Some guys play better when they get some time off or come back from an injury. Hamonic always plays better right when he gets put back in and I think thats the wear and tear on his body. Kleven isnt the same as he is younger but it might spark him a bit to watch a game or two up top.

 

[JD1]

Its pretty wild how everyone else forgets its an NHL opponent over there playing from behind at home on a Saturday night.

It's not just that. We go into the 3rd up 2 on the road in a game we've had the better of. Yes the league is tight. Yes the other team is fighting for positi9n. It's their barn.

We did more than enough to win an important game of the road.

We should be thankful for the two points and move on. There's no theoretical debate to be had here about how we played the 3rd. We won. Next up Buffalo

 

[JD1]

I mean, their #1C is 25 and signed long term, their #1D just turned 21, and they do have a legit #1 goalie in the pipeline in Jacob Fowler. With Demidov and Michael Hage coming soon as well, they'll also have a pretty good 2nd line in a few years too. They have plenty of other prospects who will provide depth down the line so yeah, they really do have a good amount of talent on the way, and MSL is a fantastic coach.

They're going to be our main rival for years to come, and we'll need to start filling up our own cupboards to keep up in the future.

That's certainly the view of Habs fans

Is Suzuki good enough? Yes he's their 1C. And he's having a career year. But is he good en9ugh to be a 1C on a contender? I don't think many pundits see that. What C strength do they have outside of Suzuii? They're not in the same league as Stuetzle, Cozens and Pinto.

Who is there 1D? Hutson? Kid is doing neat stuff putting up points. Will he ever be able to handle the grind of the nhl playoffs? Guys here talk about 6 feet and 200 being undersized. Does Hutson even weigh 170? The concern about his lack of size will be there until he shows otherwise. I get the hype and it's a feel good story..... the little boy that could.. but the history of the league says he can't

Lots of love for Fowler. Who knows. Goalies. Least predictable athletes in sport.

I'm not saying that they don't have talent on the way but if you go back thru time looking at the rosters of cup winners, they all have HoF level talent in their prime. 2 or 3 players. There's maybe 2 exceptions in the last 40 years. Who might those players be in Montreal? I don’t see that level of talent on the roster or in the pipeline

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Touche, my point is a team is down they are going to push its natural.

Colorado blew a 3 goal lead on the road. Even the best teams feel it.

My point isn’t that we should never blow leads or should always dominate.

My point is that since the 4 nations we have not looked good and have seemingly abandoned the strong defensive game that we have pre 4 nations. If this was before the 4 nations then yeah we played 2 good periods the other team pushed we ended up winning Cest la vie.

 

[Micklebot]

My point isn’t that we should never blow leads or should always dominate.

My point is that since the 4 nations we have not looked good and have seemingly abandoned the strong defensive game that we have pre 4 nations. If this was before the 4 nations then yeah we played 2 good periods the other team pushed we ended up winning Cest la vie.

I think it's less that we have abandoned our strong defensive game, and more that we struggle defensively when one of our top 6 D is injured.

In an ideal world, we'd have picked up a guy like Carrier or Fabbro when they became available to better weather the storm when Jensen is out. Maybe in the offseaon we'll make an upgrade on the backend.

It's also worth noting, from a purely metrics perspective, it's really just two games that are killing the defensive metrics, Was and Det. remove those games, and our numbers are in line with the rest of the season. There have been stretches in other games where things weren't great (Mtl and NJD third periods for example) but overall it's not as bad as it seems.