Ottawa Senators announce completion of 135 million financing | MOD warning post #303

[Ray Kinsella]

I've been thinking about why the Sens made an announcement regarding this refinancing. The only conclusion I can come up with is that they want to signal that everything is just fine with Melnyk's finances and the team going forward. Lebreton negotiations are fine and they will offer Karlsson a fair offer.

We'll see but there's no other logical explanation I can see. Sometimes I can see where the negative conspiracy theories might have a chance but not here.

...................

 

[Wondercarrot]

So as suspected the Sens have maxed out their borrowing with the NHL & the $135 million is over and above that $100 million.
Anyone have their Forbes debt ratio numbers handy? lol

The Ottawa ATMs

 

[coladin]

Cut the crap. One minute you're talking about season tickets, fine wines and expensive vacations overseas...now you're claiming to be Joe fan and the rest of us are stuck up? Talk about a lack of self-awareness.

Joe Fan in the sense that my passion and support for the team is without doubt. Not from a financial sense. I don't post like I am entitled to certain answers and decisions. I don't bail on the team because of what an owner says. I don't stay away from watching a generational talent and complain about how hard it is to get to a game. The horror. I don't talk about boycotting the team because the owner is a meanie. So yeah, I am Joe Fan from the true fan sense of it . Not money.

All the other stuff, well, you can think what you like . If people don't want to share stuff in the Off-Topic section in the fear that people will be offended by my taste in wine, vacations, well that looks pretty sad on your part Nac.

 

[coladin]

My post was harsh, but holy ****, some of the takes in here really get to me lately. Too many folks in here claiming to be insiders, too much gaslighting and trolling....it's getting crazy.

Financially, the best I can do to support the NHL is order Center Ice. Even then, I don't know how much longer I can do that. Guess I'm not a real fan.

And again, I don't judge people on what they can afford to spend. Never have. Dare you to find a single post where I have and I will buy a bottle of wine. I'm sure you can find a good one that I talked about!

Those who choose not to support the team and have the means are another matter...

 

[coladin]

Back on topic, it looks like the Senators have 100M loan from the NHL, 100 refinancing and an extra 35M to kick around. Have nothing to compare it to in order to know how much he is losing. But it seems he is losing money and borrowed extra for the anticipated shortfall, huge shortfall, this upcoming season.

I guess people not buying tickets is having the desired result. As long as the valuation of NHL franchise rises by huge clumps, he will continue to borrow and get more as far as equalization payments.

 

[Sensung]

Back on topic, it looks like the Senators have 100M loan from the NHL, 100 refinancing and an extra 35M to kick around. Have nothing to compare it to in order to know how much he is losing. But it seems he is losing money and borrowed extra for the anticipated shortfall, huge shortfall, this upcoming season.

I guess people not buying tickets is having the desired result. As long as the valuation of NHL franchise rises by huge clumps, he will continue to borrow and get more as far as equalization payments.

How much is the franchise worth when he's drawing 5,000 a game for everyone except Leafs and Habs?

 

[Wondercarrot]

Back on topic, it looks like the Senators have 100M loan from the NHL, 100 refinancing and an extra 35M to kick around. Have nothing to compare it to in order to know how much he is losing. But it seems he is losing money and borrowed extra for the anticipated shortfall, huge shortfall, this upcoming season.

I guess people not buying tickets is having the desired result. As long as the valuation of NHL franchise rises by huge clumps, he will continue to borrow and get more as far as equalization payments.

Why do you think it’s $35 million extra to kick around?

 

[coladin]

Why do you think it’s $35 million extra to kick around?

Because as I read this morning, I think it was a Colin Cudmore tweet, that is how it was further broken down, unless I misread it.

 

[JD1]

Back on topic, it looks like the Senators have 100M loan from the NHL, 100 refinancing and an extra 35M to kick around. Have nothing to compare it to in order to know how much he is losing. But it seems he is losing money and borrowed extra for the anticipated shortfall, huge shortfall, this upcoming season.

I guess people not buying tickets is having the desired result. As long as the valuation of NHL franchise rises by huge clumps, he will continue to borrow and get more as far as equalization payments.

interesting. the debt is racking up.

maybe it will reach a point where selling is the only option. the concerning thing here to me is the inability of the franchise to be self sufficient

there's been so many people here posting ad nauseum about the team making money. I'd like to think that this info puts that to rest.

I'm getting more concerned while typing this. this debt would have accumulated essentially prior to Melnyk being despised across the board ... things will get worse

 

[Sensung]

interesting. the debt is racking up.

maybe it will reach a point where selling is the only option. the concerning thing here to me is the inability of the franchise to be self sufficient

there's been so many people here posting ad nauseum about the team making money. I'd like to think that this info puts that to rest.

I'm getting more concerned while typing this. this debt would have accumulated essentially prior to Melnyk being despised across the board ... things will get worse

It proves nothing other than Eugene has been using the franchise as an ATM.

 

[Stylizer1]

interesting. the debt is racking up.

maybe it will reach a point where selling is the only option. the concerning thing here to me is the inability of the franchise to be self sufficient

there's been so many people here posting ad nauseum about the team making money. I'd like to think that this info puts that to rest.

I'm getting more concerned while typing this. this debt would have accumulated essentially prior to Melnyk being despised across the board ... things will get worse

I think Melnyk doesn't want to spend his money. This debt could be wiped out with a stroke of a pen if he wanted but that's not what wealthy people do it.

He's not poor

 

[coladin]

interesting. the debt is racking up.

maybe it will reach a point where selling is the only option. the concerning thing here to me is the inability of the franchise to be self sufficient

there's been so many people here posting ad nauseum about the team making money. I'd like to think that this info puts that to rest.

I'm getting more concerned while typing this. this debt would have accumulated essentially prior to Melnyk being despised across the board ... things will get worse

He just continues to borrow to cover shortfalls. Most of these guys never write a cheque. Even though he has 235M in debt, the valuation of the franchise right now, with the expansion fees setting the floor, banks are only too happy to give him what he wants. He can probably go another 100M before he will be in trouble. But that could happen over the next 3 years.

Low ticket prices, low ticket sales are hurting the bottom line and the franchises ability to compete and , as you say it, be self sufficient. This team will only be sold sufficient with season ticket based commensurate to other Canadian franchises and attendance levels of the other Canadian franchises.
And Calgary is doing that, and they are getting equalization payments now. They need a new arena to find more revenue streams. At least Ottawa has a good arena.

 

[Stylizer1]

He just continues to borrow to cover shortfalls. Most of these guys never write a cheque. Even though he has 235M in debt, the valuation of the franchise right now, with the expansion fees setting the floor, banks are only too happy to give him what he wants. He can probably go another 100M before he will be in trouble. But that could happen over the next 3 years.

Low ticket prices, low ticket sales are hurting the bottom line and the franchises ability to compete and , as you say it, be self sufficient. This team will only be sold sufficient with season ticket based commensurate to other Canadian franchises and attendance levels of the other Canadian franchises.
And Calgary is doing that, and they are getting equalization payments now. They need a new arena to find more revenue streams. At least Ottawa has a good arena.

Melnyk should just come out and tell the fans if you sellout the building I will spend to the cap. If tickets sales are really the problem it seems like a fair deal to the fan base.

 

[coladin]

Melnyk should just come out and tell the fans if you sellout the building I will spend to the cap. If tickets sales are really the problem it seems like a fair deal to the fan base.

Ha, you very well know what kind of reaction that would get around here.

Bryden did it, and it worked. We had players buying tickets FFS. Remember? Today, it would be akin to extortion or blackmail, especially with this hypersensitive fanbase.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Melnyk should just come out and tell the fans if you sellout the building I will spend to the cap. If tickets sales are really the problem it seems like a fair deal to the fan base.

After all the lies Melynk has already given the fans, you expect people to believe him? We'll spend when the time is right...reach the ECF, then cuts spending. Where's his SCI team with the Cooke investigation? Lebreton was supposed to be the savior for the franchise, now he's backing away.

He's cried wolf too many times.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Did we not establish that spending actually has been increasing and they only cut it once it was clear how much of a disaster the season was going to end up as?

We increased spending when we got Duchene.

Obviously deeply cutting spending in a bad year is really concerning as a go-to move but the increase in spending did happen.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

But we also cut spending off ice. You have to take that into account, as well.

 

[Grizwald]

Melnyk should just come out and tell the fans if you sellout the building I will spend to the cap. If tickets sales are really the problem it seems like a fair deal to the fan base.

Melnyk had a financial windfall last year with receiving expansion money plus the added bonus of a long playoff run, yet all he could do was obsess about a few unsold tickets at one playoff game. He didn't increase his salary budget the following year, in fact he threatened to do the opposite and made deep cuts in the marketing and management - essentially made his organization look Mickey Mouse. And on top of everything else, it appears now Melnyk has lost the trust that was not long ago a very loyal fan base. And to expect sellouts now? It reminds me of the Jim Mora football quote, "Playoffs, playoffs - you kidding me!"

 

[Canadian Time]

Been thinking some more about this debt financing and what it means. I pulled up the Forbes numbers to refresh my memory, a couple of things aren't making sense to me.

According to Forbes, the Montreal Canadiens have an 18% debt/value ratio, when you factor in what the franchise is worth, that's almost the exact same amount of debt as Melnyk is carrying. Does that mean Molson is "broke"? Of course not, debt is used as an investment for rich guys.

I'm not suggesting Melnyk is doing anything shady here, not for a second, but tying this thing to a few unsold seats is not on in my opinion, no way. If the Sens are in all this trouble than there are another 10 teams that are in much worse shape.

I'm perfectly fine accepting that this market isn't large enough to grab the biggest UFAs, in fact rarely is that the way to build a winner. But it's plenty good enough to be able to hang onto their homegrown talent.

 

[coladin]

Melnyk had a financial windfall last year with receiving expansion money plus the added bonus of a long playoff run, yet all he could do was obsess about a few unsold tickets at one playoff game. He didn't increase his salary budget the following year, in fact he threatened to do the opposite and made deep cuts in the marketing and management - essentially made his organization look Mickey Mouse. And on top of everything else, it appears now Melnyk has lost the trust that was not long ago a very loyal fan base. And to expect sellouts now? It reminds me of the Jim Mora football quote, "Playoffs, playoffs - you kidding me!"

Maybe he didn't increase the budget the following year because, rightly, attendance took a nosedive last year? He saw the renewals after the playoff run and had to make some business decisions. This pie in the sky world where money and costs only matter to them and not others sounds really appealing.

 

[Grizwald]

Maybe he didn't increase the budget the following year because, rightly, attendance took a nosedive last year? He saw the renewals after the playoff run and had to make some business decisions. This pie in the sky world where money and costs only matter to them and not others sounds really appealing.

He lost fans because he's a deplorable dirt-bag who runs his organizations badly and can't be trusted. Now that doesn't seem 'pie in the sky' at all to me. I know you disagree. Lets leave it at that.

 

[coladin]

He lost fans because he's a deplorable dirt-bag who runs his organizations badly and can't be trusted. Now that doesn't seem 'pie in the sky' at all to me. I know you disagree. Lets leave it at that.

It is a business, and if you lose money there are going to be consequences to that. Nothing new.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

Ha, you very well know what kind of reaction that would get around here.

Bryden did it, and it worked. We had players buying tickets FFS. Remember? Today, it would be akin to extortion or blackmail, especially with this hypersensitive fanbase.

To be fair, I would never, ever, compare Bryden and Melnyk.

 

[BigRig4]

Did we not establish that spending actually has been increasing and they only cut it once it was clear how much of a disaster the season was going to end up as?

We increased spending when we got Duchene.

Obviously deeply cutting spending in a bad year is really concerning as a go-to move but the increase in spending did happen.

By like ~400k. And paid picks to make sure Hammond would be shipped out to make it as close as possible.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

By like ~400k. And paid picks to make sure Hammond would be shipped out to make it as close as possible.

Duchene made 6 million over Turris @ 3.5 did he not?