Ottawa 67s 2024 25 Season Thread Part Iii

I can see the possibility of Guelph, Kitchener, Ottawa going for an unprotected ‘07 USNTDP player with one of their 3rd picks. Most will prioritize the (NA) true rookie though.
Odds of pro prospect being equal, the ON kid gets drafted first because he probably has a lower education cost.


Do you think the education costs are a factor anymore? I’m sort of thinking that the American kids will cost zero vs the Canadian kids that are more likely to play CIS, whereas the American kid will play NCAA. I know there is a risk of the player not being old enough to play NCAA so they have to pay the US based tuition but how often would that happen? I don’t have that answer and I don’t think anyone really does but it is definitely an angle to keep an eye on. The “have” teams will not care as much either way.
 
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Do you think the education costs are a factor anymore? I’m sort of thinking that the American kids will cost zero vs the Canadian kids that are more likely to play CIS, whereas the American kid will play NCAA. I know there is a risk of the player not being old enough to play NCAA so they have to pay the US based tuition but how often would that happen? I don’t have that answer and I don’t think anyone really does but it is definitely an angle to keep an eye on. The “have” teams will not care as much either way.

The education obligation to US players based on home address will vary greatly even among division I schools of which there are many. Plus, state schools get subsidized for state residents; so, I really don’t know the difference in costs to OHL teams. I am sure however, NCAA schools will deduct the value of the OHL scholarship package prior to incurring cost.
 
The education obligation to US players based on home address will vary greatly even among division I schools of which there are many. Plus, state schools get subsidized for state residents; so, I really don’t know the difference in costs to OHL teams. I am sure however, NCAA schools will deduct the value of the OHL scholarship package prior to incurring cost.

I believe the scholarship package is based on the state school tuition fees for the institution closest to their home. So, if they go to Harvard, the team doesn’t pay the full tuition. They pay the equal amount to the state school.

Average tuition for state schools in New York State is $7k US$ per year. https://www.suny.edu/smarttrack/tuition-and-fees/
That isn’t incredibly more than Canadian Universities except for the exchange rate.

I selected a random New York State schools that is close to the border (Potsdam). Tuition & Fees | SUNY Potsdam A gold package would be $25k US$ and the basic tuition package is $7k plus maybe the student fees? So, $8800?

Ottawa University for an Undergraduate Degree is $6k per year (2 semesters).
 
I believe the scholarship package is based on the state school tuition fees for the institution closest to their home. So, if they go to Harvard, the team doesn’t pay the full tuition. They pay the equal amount to the state school.

Average tuition for state schools in New York State is $7k US$ per year. https://www.suny.edu/smarttrack/tuition-and-fees/
That isn’t incredibly more than Canadian Universities except for the exchange rate.

I selected a random New York State schools that is close to the border (Potsdam). Tuition & Fees | SUNY Potsdam A gold package would be $25k US$ and the basic tuition package is $7k plus maybe the student fees? So, $8800?

Ottawa University for an Undergraduate Degree is $6k per year (2 semesters).

its actually changing this summer. its going to be a flat fee of 10,000 a year (estimated), earned every year.

there are no more multi year guarantee's. no matter if you are from toronto, ottawa or sudbury.

the theory is that anything they make will be topped up by an ncaa program.

to be honest even if you went to usports, i think every usports program could top up with their budgets.

so as an example, a 1st round pick will get the same as a 14th round pick.

i think, but dont know for sure, this is how it works in the other two leagues
 
its actually changing this summer. its going to be a flat fee of 10,000 a year (estimated), earned every year.

there are no more multi year guarantee's. no matter if you are from toronto, ottawa or sudbury.

the theory is that anything they make will be topped up by an ncaa program.

to be honest even if you went to usports, i think every usports program could top up with their budgets.

so as an example, a 1st round pick will get the same as a 14th round pick.

i think, but dont know for sure, this is how it works in the other two leagues
I hope they take into account how much tuition is expected to increase due to the lack of international students attending.
The Usports schools are all headed towards a very unstable financial future and topping up may not be possible with all the cuts happening at Canadian schools. (ncaa kids obviously will be unaffected with the money floating around those schools though)
 
its actually changing this summer. its going to be a flat fee of 10,000 a year (estimated), earned every year.

there are no more multi year guarantee's. no matter if you are from toronto, ottawa or sudbury.

the theory is that anything they make will be topped up by an ncaa program.

to be honest even if you went to usports, i think every usports program could top up with their budgets.

so as an example, a 1st round pick will get the same as a 14th round pick.

i think, but dont know for sure, this is how it works in the other two leagues

So, “GOLD” packages would no longer exist? Players would get a $10,000 scholarship and they can use it however they want, wherever they want.

If that is the case, you have to think he NCAA schools will offer kids a scholarship (less $10k) per year. There is effectively no difference for the player either way.
 
So, “GOLD” packages would no longer exist? Players would get a $10,000 scholarship and they can use it however they want, wherever they want.

If that is the case, you have to think he NCAA schools will offer kids a scholarship (less $10k) per year. There is effectively no difference for the player either way.

basically.

the ohl is reducing its education costs and putting it back onto the ncaa programs. what i think will happen is if the ohl is contributing 10k, the school will cover the rest.
 
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I hope they take into account how much tuition is expected to increase due to the lack of international students attending.
The Usports schools are all headed towards a very unstable financial future and topping up may not be possible with all the cuts happening at Canadian schools. (ncaa kids obviously will be unaffected with the money floating around those schools though)

It depends. If the player is an employee of the school, they are eligible for free tuition. So, the scholarship can then go towards the room and board. There are ways around it. It is a matter of rod whether the schools will play ball or not.
 
basically.

the ohl is reducing its education costs and putting it back onto the ncaa programs. what i think will happen is if the ohl is contributing 10k, the school will cover the rest.

It makes sense and it is easier to manage. It is also more fair across the board. It is also higher than the cost of one year tuition. I assume there will be an inflationary index added into it.
 
It makes sense and it is easier to manage. It is also more fair across the board. It is also higher than the cost of one year tuition. I assume there will be an inflationary index added into it.

i would have to think so, the standard agreement allows for the team to include inflation, not sure if that would still be the case.

a top pick would get roughly 25k or something a year guaranteed over 4 years. but now itll be capped at 10k. the teams will 100 percent save money on this, but kids probably wont notice, ncaa teams will still run to top up the packages. smart move imo.
 
It would be an interesting turn if Ottawa were to bulk up on American kids. What would their roster look like?

Foster(OA) - 18yo AMERICAN - Ekberg
Whitehead - 18 yo AMERICIAN - Dever(OA)
Amidovski - Vandenberg - Kelly
Kingwell - 1st Round Pick - IMPORT
Yanni - Perrier - Houben

Marrelli - Abe Barnett
Jackson - Eshkawkogan
Dietsch - Brady
Bonomo - White

Nelson
Backup (Trade)

There is still room in there for another OA or Barlas/Horner. Still more signed players left off that roster as well. Avila, Bowes, Souliere, Alain…..

I am not saying this will happen but if they use their 2nd round pick and one of their 3rds on mature American centres, this is a possible roster gong into next season.

They also have Krawczyk, Asher Barnett, Lucas Zajic, and Cole McKinney in the pipeline as unlikely to sign players but you never know.
If all three go to university, we could possibly be back to 0 centers on the team in 26/27.

How the hell can you call that player development fan retention of anything?

The other catch is that you basically have 4 rookies at center. DC hates rookies. Can you really see that working? Also, what is it saying to Canadian kids who get drafted?

We know that DC is disconnected from rookies and does not trust them to be able to play. He also has a disconnect when it comes to teaching offense.
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Any 18-year-old American is going to have been passed over by the USHL and the bigger and better CHL teams (London, Kitchener, Branford Brampton, Oshawa), and my question then becomes, how good are they? USHL players are under contract, yes, and Canadian players may have an out, but I think you will find that American kids will not.

The present political situation with the U.S. could also come into play, especially in Ottawa.

If Boyd makes this a go-for-it year, then I think hee should be replaced before the season even starts or simply told that he will not be extended.

Again I hate to bring up old history but bringin in 1 year players and makeing the palyoffs only to suck the year after sounds a lot like what we went through inthelas years of the M Center in Kingston

It also means tht this team in not interested in winning M Cups or going deep in the playoffs; it just wants to make the playoffs, get the money for 2 games and be done.


I know a lot of you will disagree but this is just my feeling as a long time fan.

I would rather go through a rebuild. Look at Niagara and what they are doing or what the Petes are going to look like this year and for the next few years.

At this stage say what you want about the owner in NIagara but he is looking a lot better than the braintrust here in Ottawa
 
Just a question
Could the fact that we are going to go for it be because the present coach does not know how to develop a young team through a rebulid and OSEG is too sheap to eat a year on their contracts.

I still sort of wonder how much OSEG cares about the sports teams or if they were a necessary evil to get the landsdown project that they wanted.
 
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If all three go to university, we could possibly be back to 0 centers on the team in 26/27.

How the hell can you call that player development fan retention of anything?

The other catch is that you basically have 4 rookies at center. DC hates rookies. Can you really see that working? Also, what is it saying to Canadian kids who get drafted?

We know that DC is disconnected from rookies and does not trust them to be able to play. He also has a disconnect when it comes to teaching offense.
e
Any 18-year-old American is going to have been passed over by the USHL and the bigger and better CHL teams (London, Kitchener, Branford Brampton, Oshawa), and my question then becomes, how good are they? USHL players are under contract, yes, and Canadian players may have an out, but I think you will find that American kids will not.

The present political situation with the U.S. could also come into play, especially in Ottawa.

If Boyd makes this a go-for-it year, then I think hee should be replaced before the season even starts or simply told that he will not be extended.

Again I hate to bring up old history but bringin in 1 year players and makeing the palyoffs only to suck the year after sounds a lot like what we went through inthelas years of the M Center in Kingston

It also means tht this team in not interested in winning M Cups or going deep in the playoffs; it just wants to make the playoffs, get the money for 2 games and be done.


I know a lot of you will disagree but this is just my feeling as a long time fan.

I would rather go through a rebuild. Look at Niagara and what they are doing or what the Petes are going to look like this year and for the next few years.

At this stage say what you want about the owner in NIagara but he is looking a lot better than the braintrust here in Ottawa

At this stage say what you want about the owner in NIagara but he is looking a lot better than the braintrust here in Ottawa”… you can’t seriously believe this?
 
If all three go to university, we could possibly be back to 0 centers on the team in 26/27.

How the hell can you call that player development fan retention of anything?

The other catch is that you basically have 4 rookies at center. DC hates rookies. Can you really see that working? Also, what is it saying to Canadian kids who get drafted?

We know that DC is disconnected from rookies and does not trust them to be able to play. He also has a disconnect when it comes to teaching offense.
e
Any 18-year-old American is going to have been passed over by the USHL and the bigger and better CHL teams (London, Kitchener, Branford Brampton, Oshawa), and my question then becomes, how good are they? USHL players are under contract, yes, and Canadian players may have an out, but I think you will find that American kids will not.

The present political situation with the U.S. could also come into play, especially in Ottawa.

If Boyd makes this a go-for-it year, then I think hee should be replaced before the season even starts or simply told that he will not be extended.

Again I hate to bring up old history but bringin in 1 year players and makeing the palyoffs only to suck the year after sounds a lot like what we went through inthelas years of the M Center in Kingston

It also means tht this team in not interested in winning M Cups or going deep in the playoffs; it just wants to make the playoffs, get the money for 2 games and be done.


I know a lot of you will disagree but this is just my feeling as a long time fan.

I would rather go through a rebuild. Look at Niagara and what they are doing or what the Petes are going to look like this year and for the next few years.

At this stage say what you want about the owner in NIagara but he is looking a lot better than the braintrust here in Ottawa

Again, there is a lot of “worst case scenario” hypotheticals mixed in there. I think you are ignoring the bright side of drafting 2-3 mature Americans and getting them to sign. IF they can do that, the stink on the organization right now disappears. The assumption that they cannot get hard to sign players is gone.

Vandenberg was a late first round to mid-second round talent in the last draft. If they get him signed, then that is a positive as well. Same with Barnett who comes in as an 18 year old.

The players I am referring to aren’t being passed over by the USHL. The players are leaving the USHL, USNTDP, and/or delaying their NCAA commitment. This is my “best case scenario” hypothetical. But, if you believe all the chatter, a lot of players are going to jump to the CHL Leagues this year. That is going to lessen the competitiveness of the USH which, in turn, motivates more to leave the USHL. A lot of CHL players are jumping to the NCAA after they complete their OA year this year. So many signings so far. That is going to push out and delay some younger recruits. The young new American recruits are looking at red shirt years if they keep the timing of their scholarship to commence this fall. That means they cannot dress and play games, only practise. I think those kids will delay their committal year.

This is all about looking at the potential positives and then seeing if the bar can be raised. I mean, if you are Boyd, isn’t that your goal? IT could all fall apart but the potential is out there. The rest of the league is looking to do the same thing. It is not like Ottawa would be trying to reinvent the wheel. They are all working on their patent this offseason!

The 67’s theoretically already had a rebuild year. They are picking 3rd overall. They will get a good player there. I know your opinion differs but I still feel Oshawa and Kingston will sell hard. Two divisional rivals that will be weak in the 2nd half. I cannot see Ottawa missing the playoffs next year even if they tried, not with that back end returning. Goal suppression vs other weak teams should be enough to win enough games.

I don’t think you can compare Niagara and Ottawa. First Ottawa has not been repeatedly sanctioned and hasn’t lost 1st round picks, hasn’t been fined six figures, doesn’t have their current GM/owner suspended from the team for two years, and hasn’t finished last in the entire league each of the previous three years. After finishing last overall for each of the last three seasons, Niagara ONLY finished 8 points ahead of Ottawa this year. I’m not sure you can classify that a good rebuild.

I think you are reaching too far to try to discredit the 67’s organization. Many of us may be disappointed in Cameron and some of us Boyd as well but, I think you are taking it to a level that exceeds what is warranted. When you suggest that the Ice Dogs owner is looking a lot better than the brain trust in Ottawa right now, it clearly shows you have gone off the deep end. You’ve reached a little too far my friend.

Also, regarding the “current political situation,” keep in mind that Russia and Ukraine are blowing things up, loads of ill will towards Russia and yet, the watch is on for Ovechkin (a Russian) eclipsing the Great One’s goal scoring record and th eNHL will make a huge deal about it. If that can happen, I cannot see a scenario where hockey fans start to boycott 67’s games because they brought in a couple Americans. Hell, Brady Tkachuk is a fan favourite for the Senators and he is an American.

Boyd and Cameron deserve some criticism. I think both would agree if you had a candid conversation with them. But, this is way too over the top IMO. Didn’t Cameron win coach of the year a couple years ago? Didn’t he take a team that lost a lot of players through Covid and coach them up into a 100+ point team coming out of nowhere to do it? HE isn’t useless. I’d like to see him gone but more because I don’t want a 66 year old coach at the start of a rebuild.
 
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Just a question
Could the fact that we are going to go for it be because the present coach does not know how to develop a young team through a rebulid and OSEG is too sheap to eat a year on their contracts.

I still sort of wonder how much OSEG cares about the sports teams or if they were a necessary evil to get the landsdown project that they wanted.
These are crazy statements. You seriously would rather the Niagara situation? OSEG certainly cares. They OWN the Redblacks and 67s, the city owns Lansdowne and OSEG runs it in a partnership with them.
 
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He's returning to Switzerland 2 years ago?
 
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I hope they take into account how much tuition is expected to increase due to the lack of international students attending.
The Usports schools are all headed towards a very unstable financial future and topping up may not be possible with all the cuts happening at Canadian schools. (ncaa kids obviously will be unaffected with the money floating around those schools though)
International programs are not going to be that affected unless the government does something really stupid, and STUPID JUST LEFT TOWN.

I have a friend here who runs an education fair twice a year for students who want to learn in Canada. The fair is always busy, and the universities send people over to do interviews and sell their schools and colleges.

We also have schools here that are affiliated with Top Canadian schools so that students who want to can apply directly with their Canadian Graduation certificate.

Kids here and families really want their kids to do better than them and the families with money are willing to foot the bill for Canadian American or British schools

There is a growing sense, though, that while Cambridge and other British universities are gold seals, the price is getting too high.

In the U.S., the feeling is that kids may not be getting what they need to be able to come back home and run big businesses. Protesting 101 is not a huge market in a pseudo-military and elite-run country.

Canadian universities are a better look as they are cheaper, and the education they get at Dalhousie, U of T Queens, et al is superior.
 
International programs are not going to be that affected unless the government does something really stupid, and STUPID JUST LEFT TOWN.

I have a friend here who runs an education fair twice a year for students who want to learn in Canada. The fair is always busy, and the universities send people over to do interviews and sell their schools and colleges.

We also have schools here that are affiliated with Top Canadian schools so that students who want to can apply directly with their Canadian Graduation certificate.

Kids here and families really want their kids to do better than them and the families with money are willing to foot the bill for Canadian American or British schools

There is a growing sense, though, that while Cambridge and other British universities are gold seals, the price is getting too high.

In the U.S., the feeling is that kids may not be getting what they need to be able to come back home and run big businesses. Protesting 101 is not a huge market in a pseudo-military and elite-run country.

Canadian universities are a better look as they are cheaper, and the education they get at Dalhousie, U of T Queens, et al is superior.

Yes, but there is a strong push to reduce the number of International students. Yes, those students pay a higher tuition fee but the fees are still subsidized heavily through tax payer funding. The International students aren’t staying. They are getting their education and leaving.

The other fundamental issue is the volume of International students is starting to make up too high of a percentage of the student population. It is a situation where we are trying to grow while our domestic enrolment is stagnant.

I am not sure they have figured out the right mix or how to manage the reduced number of International students but that seems to be the trend.
 
Yes, but there is a strong push to reduce the number of International students. Yes, those students pay a higher tuition fee but the fees are still subsidized heavily through tax payer funding. The International students aren’t staying. They are getting their education and leaving.

The other fundamental issue is that the number of International students is starting to make up too high a percentage of the student population. We are trying to grow while our domestic enrolment is stagnant.

I am not sure they have figured out the right mix or how to manage the reduced number of International students but that seems to be the trend.
The international students, at least those from Thailand, would love to get a job in Canada. The challenge is that they do not get offers and some of these kids are subsidized by people here as well as businesses.

Somchai's dad works for or owns company X. The company can use his university costs as a tax deduction. OR Somchai has people who will subsidize the cost, but they have to pay it back to the person after they finish.

Kids I know, except for that thing called snow, would love to stay in Canada if they can get a job. The other reason universities want these kids is because they are students in the true sense; they are the best and are geared to be the best.


But I understand Canada is running into the issue of the cost to Canadian kids versus how many get jobs is scarey.
 
The international students, at least those from Thailand, would love to get a job in Canada. The challenge is that they do not get offers and some of these kids are subsidized by people here as well as businesses.

Somchai's dad works for or owns company X. The company can use his university costs as a tax deduction. OR Somchai has people who will subsidize the cost, but they have to pay it back to the person after they finish.

Kids I know, except for that thing called snow, would love to stay in Canada if they can get a job. The other reason universities want these kids is because they are students in the true sense; they are the best and are geared to be the best.


But I understand Canada is running into the issue of the cost to Canadian kids versus how many get jobs is scarey.

Effectively speaking, International students are being used as budget gaps and in many cases ar being taken advantage of in a system rigged specifically to take advantage of International students. The expectation on the International student side is to gain Permanent residency. But, there aren’t sufficient job opportunities.

Something like 1 million international students in Canada. That’s crazy talk.

And there are two cohorts. The first cohort is the one you reference that are mostly just being taken advantage of. They are enrolled in useless programs for the purpose of generating revenue for the Colleges and Universities. The second cohort are the highly capable students that clog up the more prestigious programs (for the same reason of financial incentive for the Universities) like Engineering and then they end up with highly mobile degrees and they take their skills back home or to the USA where they are highly sought after at high compensation. Computer Engineering is one program like that. Domestic students miss out on these opportunities.

There are a lot of other issues that are well documented but the reality is when you have upwards of 1 million International students in a country of 40 million, that is a lot. To me, ti is obviously a money grab to fuel useless programs and bloated administration of schools that are probably double the size they need to be.

With so many online opportunities, the International students should have an easier time educating themselves. But, with the expectation of permanent residency, they uproot from their homes to places like Canada. So, in many cases, it is less about education and more about access to the country. IT is the wrong reason to be here. Get an education (whatever the cost) and take that education back home to make your home country better. Build up your home country with an increase in capability through education.

So, as was mentioned in a previous post, with a significant reduction in student Visa’s, the post-secondary industry will likely struggle more and that will affect their ability to give non-private funded scholarships for U-Sports.

It is more likely that the post-secondary institution industry needs a complete overhaul. With technology making things easier for remote learning, the brick and mortar model is going to quickly become less prevalent for a full time course load. Of course, some programs will require the student to be present but most first year programs are mostly noodle courses that can be conducted online. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds and by extension, how it affects U-Sports in general.
 
Effectively speaking, International students are being used as budget gaps and in many cases ar being taken advantage of in a system rigged specifically to take advantage of International students. The expectation on the International student side is to gain Permanent residency. But, there aren’t sufficient job opportunities.

Something like 1 million international students in Canada. That’s crazy talk.

And there are two cohorts. The first cohort is the one you reference that are mostly just being taken advantage of. They are enrolled in useless programs for the purpose of generating revenue for the Colleges and Universities. The second cohort are the highly capable students that clog up the more prestigious programs (for the same reason of financial incentive for the Universities) like Engineering and then they end up with highly mobile degrees and they take their skills back home or to the USA where they are highly sought after at high compensation. Computer Engineering is one program like that. Domestic students miss out on these opportunities.

There are a lot of other issues that are well documented but the reality is when you have upwards of 1 million International students in a country of 40 million, that is a lot. To me, ti is obviously a money grab to fuel useless programs and bloated administration of schools that are probably double the size they need to be.

With so many online opportunities, the International students should have an easier time educating themselves. But, with the expectation of permanent residency, they uproot from their homes to places like Canada. So, in many cases, it is less about education and more about access to the country. IT is the wrong reason to be here. Get an education (whatever the cost) and take that education back home to make your home country better. Build up your home country with an increase in capability through education.

So, as was mentioned in a previous post, with a significant reduction in student Visa’s, the post-secondary industry will likely struggle more and that will affect their ability to give non-private funded scholarships for U-Sports.

It is more likely that the post-secondary institution industry needs a complete overhaul. With technology making things easier for remote learning, the brick and mortar model is going to quickly become less prevalent for a full time course load. Of course, some programs will require the student to be present but most first year programs are mostly noodle courses that can be conducted online. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds and by extension, how it affects U-Sports in general.
As tro what the universities and the government do that is beyond me but I can tellyou that the job fair that hits SE Asia is not looking to kids taking the mickey mouse courses. There are enough universities here that do that.

The kids who go are taking medical, Engineering, or business courses so that they can come back here and make big bucks with that piece of paper that says Queen's U of T or such.

One thing that is now happening is that Thai premier universities are joining universities in North America, Australia, and the UK for joint courses. Students do the first two years here and then go to the other university for the third year.

Here, they are also offering many online courses so that people can get the Canadian or American university experience. A non asian degree moves people to the top of the pile when it comes to jobs and can add huge amounts of money to their pay package.

for a doctor it is the difference between working in one of the elite high-end hospitals or working at the government level.
 

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