Ottawa 67s 2024 25 Season Thread Part Iii

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I agree they will have a lot of picks when they sell off. That isn’t the issue. The issue is not having the player they probably would have gotten for Ludwinski (or the picks package). I history think that with the way that trade deadline unfolded, with Ludwinski being a centre, they likely would have gotten a good player. Maybe not a player that would have made a valuable impact this year int he top 6 but at least a player that lessens their need to push as hard selling this year. That’s my overall point.

Maybe Kingston had issues getting trades done because players didn’t’ want to go there. Fair. But, that also supports my original strategy recommendation for Kingston which was to not go for it this year and try to build a stronger reputation and be consistently good for a few season so that sort of thing isn’t an issue. That’s sort of the trade off they made. Make a last ditch effort this year and face whatever unfolds next year instead of be solid this year, and keep building by strategically pushing some assets forward. It is what it is. I am not invested in one strategy over the other but for either strategy, IMO, Ludwinski needed to be moved. Either that or don’t bring in Dubois. When they brought in Dubois, I thought it was a brilliant move because it looked like he would slip into Ludwinski’s spot when he was traded. When that didn't happen, I was confused.
I think you have to consider they were not getting the offer they expected for Ludwinski as well.
 
Ludwinski and how they strategically approached that season is relevant to now because it sits as an example of where you can end up when you don’t align resources effectively. Even if they had only received draft picks for him, they’d at least have a moderately full draft cabinet right now OR have another payer on roster to help them go further this year. Pick one.

They will be faced with the same decision next year with Battaglia. Or, more accurately, probably Hopkins in 2026-27 is more a same-same scenario because that trade will be a deal the seaosn prior to a seaosn where they will be poised to do some damage. If that deal is in the rear view mirror never to be brought back up, Kingston may make the same mistake again.

If Kingston does fairly well in OA trades and moves Battaglia, Kingston will not at all need to sell-off at the ‘27 deadline.
They could however receive offers that cannot be refused in a year the OHL hosts the memorial cup.
 
I think you have to consider they were not getting the offer they expected for Ludwinski as well.

Maybe. But then don’t bring in Dubois. Keep those picks. Last year was a wright off. There was no way that team was going to compete on an even keel with the others. At best, it was a crap shoot. Management (and Mann) should have easily seen what was returning and invested in that roster. I mean, we can go in circles on it, but the reality is that Ludwinski situation was a big gamble they didn’t need to make. They were clearly on the wrong side of the numbers last year. It wasn’t even a coin flip.
 
If Kingston does fairly well in OA trades and moves Battaglia, Kingston will not at all need to sell-off at the ‘27 deadline.
They could however receive offers that cannot be refused in a year the OHL hosts the memorial cup.

Need? No. But it will be the same Ludwinski decision. Do you value making the playoffs in the 6th seed (keeping Hopkins) vs the 8th seed (trading Hopkins) or do you value pushing the assets forward for Hopkins (which should be significant) to the season they make a real push?

This never should be about what is right for the current season. It should always be what is right for the vision and goals which are to win a championship when the opportunity presents itself. I find too often people get caught up in how it affects an inconsequential season.

For example, Ottawa didn’t trade Pinelli. Did Ottawa need to trade Pinelli? No. Keeping him likely ensures they make the playoffs. Is making the playoffs this year more important than future results that may point to a Championship run? It depends on perspective.

We look at brantford next year. Do they need 10 2nd round picks going into the next deadline? Nope. Why would they? They cannot use them to draft players. They’d have too many players. But, if they value keeping their 1st round picks, maybe having that surplus of picks allows them to trade ten picks int he 2nd to 4th round range for the player they want instead. IF they trade 10 picks for that player next year, they will still have a full picks cabinet.

Strategically stockpiling assets during inconsequential seasons is good strategy. OWen sound didn’t need to trade Barlow, McCue, AND Smith. They could have restocked what they lost the season previous when acquiring Smith and McCue by trading just one of them. They likely would have finished around the 6th seed instead of the 8th seed. They’d play Kitchener instead of London. Any change in their overall outcome on this seaosn? Nope. But it sure as hell will have a change in outcome in future seasons…..
 
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Maybe. But then don’t bring in Dubois. Keep those picks. Last year was a wright off. There was no way that team was going to compete on an even keel with the others. At best, it was a crap shoot. Management (and Mann) should have easily seen what was returning and invested in that roster. I mean, we can go in circles on it, but the reality is that Ludwinski situation was a big gamble they didn’t need to make. They were clearly on the wrong side of the numbers last year. It wasn’t even a coin flip.

Last season was neither a write-off nor an ill-fated attempt to go for it; it was imo, a practice run. I think the Kingston roster was a bit better than the results, but maybe really struggled to execute for Mann.
Dubois and Ludwinski did not hurt chances this season, and did not alter the time line of a rebuild.
 
Last season was neither a write-off nor an ill-fated attempt to go for it; it was imo, a practice run. I think the Kingston roster was a bit better than the results, but maybe really struggled to execute for Mann.
Dubois and Ludwinski did not hurt chances this season, and did not alter the time line of a rebuild.
Exactly, I think both are a non-issue with you know the insides of the issues Kingston's had making trades this season.
Those picks meant nothing in the grand scheme of things if they couldn't be used to improve this years roster. And they can easily have all of them back and more with a small sale.
Everyone also made a massive deal about them drafting Maholtra but having 2 first round picks the year you start your rebuild is kind of nice imo.
 
Need? No. But it will be the same Ludwinski decision. Do you value making the playoffs in the 6th seed (keeping Hopkins) vs the 8th seed (trading Hopkins) or do you value pushing the assets forward for Hopkins (which should be significant) to the season they make a real push?

This never should be about what is right for the current season. It should always be what is right for the vision and goals which are to win a championship when the opportunity presents itself. I find too often people get caught up in how it affects an inconsequential season.

For example, Ottawa didn’t trade Pinelli. Did Ottawa need to trade Pinelli? No. Keeping him likely ensures they make the playoffs. Is making the playoffs this year more important than future results that may point to a Championship run? It depends on perspective.

We look at brantford next year. Do they need 10 2nd round picks going into the next deadline? Nope. Why would they? They cannot use them to draft players. They’d have too many players. But, if they value keeping their 1st round picks, maybe having that surplus of picks allows them to trade ten picks int he 2nd to 4th round range for the player they want instead. IF they trade 10 picks for that player next year, they will still have a full picks cabinet.

Strategically stockpiling assets during inconsequential seasons is good strategy. OWen sound didn’t need to trade Barlow, McCue, AND Smith. They could have restocked what they lost the season previous when acquiring Smith and McCue by trading just one of them. They likely would have finished around the 6th seed instead of the 8th seed. They’d play Kitchener instead of London. Any change in their overall outcome on this seaosn? Nope. But it sure as hell will have a change in outcome in future seasons…..

Kingston ‘24 and Ottawa ‘25 or OS ‘25 are not at all comparable; Ottawa and OS are not contending next season.
Comparisons for Kingston ’24 and Peterborough ‘22 could be possible.
 
I also think if Kingston had a OHL goalie last season it could have been a longer playoff run.
The one game Vaccari let in 5 goals on 11 shots.
2 of the games lost against NB last years playoffs were directly a result of poor goaltending.
 
On Paper, the Colts should have been literally unstoppable in the 2nd half. They were underwhelming to say the least. 18-10-2 is not great for that roster. More specifically, their last 20 games 11-9. If that doesn’t at least give some pause, I don’t know what to say to be honest. Again, they should have steam rolled the league not named London.

To be honest, I find Oshawa also underwhelming. And Brampton has been underwhelming over the full season but their last 20 games were 15-3-2. That is what we should have seen from Barrie.

This is why I said we need to see how the playoffs unfold. Brantford have been an absolute train the 2nd half. Brampton has been much better down the stretch. Barrie and Oshawa have been underwhelming. Kingston has been good. I need to see how these playoffs unfold before I I put any sort of emphasis on next years predictions because if Barrie were to lose to Kingston in Round 2, the outlook for next year may not look as bright without the playoff result.

No part of the season can be discounted. The battalion went 2-0 vs gens, 2-2-2 vs steelheads, 3-3 vs colts, 1-3 in four one goal games vs bulldogs outshooting the bulldogs each game. I give the battalion zero chance of running the table though.
Odds of running the table in order imo, are; Barrie, Oshawa, Kingston, Brantford, Brampton.
 
Last season was neither a write-off nor an ill-fated attempt to go for it; it was imo, a practice run. I think the Kingston roster was a bit better than the results, but maybe really struggled to execute for Mann.
Dubois and Ludwinski did not hurt chances this season, and did not alter the time line of a rebuild.

Don’t get me wrong. What you are saying is accurate. The only aspect I think you are missing is that they would have gone into the rebuild next year with either a solid ‘07 or a handful of additional picks that help fuel the rebuild. For example, they would likely have a 2nd and 3rd round pick in the 2025 draft instead of no picks this year in those rounds.

The only caveat to that is this current roster “may” have been better had they been in a situation where the return for Ludwinski was able to be flipped this year for an additional impact player. Whether thy could have turned those Ludwinski assets into a player that helps this team now is speculation so we can agree on that for sure. I know @ScoutLife4 suggested they were having a bit of a hard time getting players to go to Kingston so that is a very big factor in the speculation as well. Understandable for sure.

The one thing we do know with hindsight is Kingston lost 4-1 to North Bay in Round one last year. Trading him would have been inconsequential to them making the playoffs. They were solidly in 7th regardless. So, did keeping Ludwinski and winning one game result in a better outcome than the assets they would have had instead? IMO, no. And that should have been a highly probably result last year since so many, even on these boards suggested that was the most likely outcome keeping Ludwinski.
 
Exactly, I think both are a non-issue with you know the insides of the issues Kingston's had making trades this season.
Those picks meant nothing in the grand scheme of things if they couldn't be used to improve this years roster. And they can easily have all of them back and more with a small sale.
Everyone also made a massive deal about them drafting Maholtra but having 2 first round picks the year you start your rebuild is kind of nice imo.

Zero issues withthe defect rule results. The issue is the go into the rebuild with no 2nd or 3rd round pick so it is somewhat disingenuous to suggest they can recoup the picks when they cannot trade players to get the 2nd and 3rd round pick this coming draft.
 
Kingston ‘24 and Ottawa ‘25 or OS ‘25 are not at all comparable; Ottawa and OS are not contending next season.
Comparisons for Kingston ’24 and Peterborough ‘22 could be possible.

We were talking about Hopkins. So we are placing Kingston into the 2026-27 season when they have to make a decision about Hopkins as a 19 year old graduating player. At that point, they are 100% in the same situation they were with Ludwinski.
 
I also think if Kingston had a OHL goalie last season it could have been a longer playoff run.
The one game Vaccari let in 5 goals on 11 shots.
2 of the games lost against NB last years playoffs were directly a result of poor goaltending.

That fine but they didn’t have a goalie, everyone knew they didn’t have a goalie and yet they still kept Ludwinski. It is not like it was a surprise. They finished in 7th mostly because they didn’t have a goalie.
 
No part of the season can be discounted. The battalion went 2-0 vs gens, 2-2-2 vs steelheads, 3-3 vs colts, 1-3 in four one goal games vs bulldogs outshooting the bulldogs each game. I give the battalion zero chance of running the table though.
Odds of running the table in order imo, are; Barrie, Oshawa, Kingston, Brantford, Brampton.

Ottawa beat the Petes something like 7-1 and lost to them int he playoffs in 6 games. Regular season is meaningless when the playoffs come around in a head to head. So many factors involved in regular season matchups. A lot of people make a big deal out of Ottawa having a poor record vs Kingston last year but four o fthose games were during a stretch where Ottawa was big time injured so shit happens. Loads of things get in the way. Playing teams on the back end of 3 in 4, injuries, players at tournaments, games in the first half vs games in the 2nd half after the deadline. A lot of factors lead to varied or “odd” results that do not translate to playoff results.

The bottom line is Oshawa ran through the East last year because they peaked at the right time. Brantford and Brampton are peaking at the right time. Barrie and Oshawa aren’t. I will reserve judgment on next years more complete predictions until I see what happens in the playoffs. Barrie and Oshawa have both disappointed overall and are both very average heading into the playoffs. This at a time when they should be starting to gear up, especially if they are fighting for the #1 seed which was within their grasps with 2-3 weeks left. Kudos goes to Kingston for mostly doing what they needed to do to give themselves a chance down the stretch. They may have lost to Brantford in that 2nd last game but they managed to nail down the #3 seed. I’m impressed.
 
We were talking about Hopkins. So we are placing Kingston into the 2026-27 season when they have to make a decision about Hopkins as a 19 year old graduating player. At that point, they are 100% in the same situation they were with Ludwinski.

On that subject earlier today I stated that I believe Kingston can probably get enough moving OAs and Battaglia that they should not need to move Dervin and Hopkins in ‘27.
Should Kingston do well selling the graduating players next season, the only good reason to stall the progress of the team in ‘27 would be offers for that are just too good to refuse. An example of that would be the bulldogs last season accepting an absurd offer for VanVliet.
 
Ottawa beat the Petes something like 7-1 and lost to them int he playoffs in 6 games. Regular season is meaningless when the playoffs come around in a head to head. So many factors involved in regular season matchups. A lot of people make a big deal out of Ottawa having a poor record vs Kingston last year but four o fthose games were during a stretch where Ottawa was big time injured so shit happens. Loads of things get in the way. Playing teams on the back end of 3 in 4, injuries, players at tournaments, games in the first half vs games in the 2nd half after the deadline. A lot of factors lead to varied or “odd” results that do not translate to playoff results.

The bottom line is Oshawa ran through the East last year because they peaked at the right time. Brantford and Brampton are peaking at the right time. Barrie and Oshawa aren’t. I will reserve judgment on next years more complete predictions until I see what happens in the playoffs. Barrie and Oshawa have both disappointed overall and are both very average heading into the playoffs. This at a time when they should be starting to gear up, especially if they are fighting for the #1 seed which was within their grasps with 2-3 weeks left. Kudos goes to Kingston for mostly doing what they needed to do to give themselves a chance down the stretch. They may have lost to Brantford in that 2nd last game but they managed to nail down the #3 seed. I’m impressed.

Except the Petes and ‘67s, I think I saw all of the eastern conference teams at their best and worst throughout the season. I am comfortable with the order of Barrie, Oshawa, Kingston, Brantford, Brampton as having the best chance at running the table.
 
Brantford and Brampton are peaking at the right time. Barrie and Oshawa aren’t.

Brantford up 5-1 in 2nd, Oshawa up 6-1 over Brampton midway in 2nd
 
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On that subject earlier today I stated that I believe Kingston can probably get enough moving OAs and Battaglia that they should not need to move Dervin and Hopkins in ‘27.
Should Kingston do well selling the graduating players next season, the only good reason to stall the progress of the team in ‘27 would be offers for that are just too good to refuse. An example of that would be the bulldogs last season accepting an absurd offer for VanVliet.

I get what you are saying but, again, that’s the same counter argument with Ludwinski. That team will be UBER young. That team will be those two plus Williamson and a bunch of 16 and 17 year olds. There is zero chance that team will be competitive. I honestly feel we are talking the difference wil be 6th or 8th keeping him vs moving him. I would agree if the difference would be 4th vs 8th but I cannot see a team that young with a thin ‘09 group that mostly will consist of the two 1st rounders this year being competitive enough to be cavalier about keeping Hopkins just for the sake of keeping him.

We will need to see how the league unfolds and what sorts of NCAA signings they may make but if @ScoutLife4 is as accurate as I think he is with respect to Kingston not really being a preferred destination yet, it may be tough for them to bring guys in to help support that group so the emphasis will be on drafting. With two 1sts and then nothing until the 4th round, it will be tough to compile enough ‘09s.

We will see though. Maybe I am wrong and their crop of 16 and 17 year olds will be super good.
 
Except the Petes and ‘67s, I think I saw all of the eastern conference teams at their best and worst throughout the season. I am comfortable with the order of Barrie, Oshawa, Kingston, Brantford, Brampton as having the best chance at running the table.

If I were using the full season as a measure, I would probably slide Brantford ahead of Oshawa in that pecking order. The rest fall in the same line as you. I like where Brantford is right now. That is a very good “team.”
 
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We are all waiting to see what the organization does with respect to coaching and management. I think this horse has been beaten to death five times over.
It sounds from the interview that the 67's fans are going to be stuck with Boyd and DC for another year. I undeerstand it from a dollar perspective but stillthink it is the wrong thing to do.

Keeping DC behind the bench is going to cost them in the draft and in the NCAA hunt that @OMG67 is so hyped about. Players are going to stay at the USHL teams they are at because they are guaranteed minuted on the ice and development, albeit in the USNDPT style of play.
Coming to Ottawa there is o guarantee that as a forward they will get ice time or will gain any development. DC just does not have that ability.

Sometime's people over value draft picks too. -They are monopoly money.
Look at how stacked Kingston was with Picks they couldn't really use them still land the big names on the market? Other then Willis the moves were pretty lackluster IMO.
Schenkel addressed a need but the cost was minimal and they didnt need Ludwinski's picks to address it.
Unfortunate they had to take 2 attempts at it when they could have just listened last summer.

So essentially they would have had all those picks for Ludwinski to use on their go for it year to likely still only waste them on a bottom 6 or bottom pairing player.

I think they took a bit of a gamble knowing they could cut Uens free hoping they could get Ludwinski sent back.
I don't think its the end of the world to be honest.
They will have have a shit ton of picks again when they sell of this summer or at next trade deadline anyway and refill 26 and 27.

They basically haver a full cupboard this coming draft when you break it down.
Ottawa fans can not throw stones about Ludwinski when we had a GM that screwed the same poch with Pinelli. I am sure that Ludwinski got offers but were they reasonable considering that many seem to think he was not and is not ready for the AHL. Looking at this stats I am surprised that they didnot either send him down to the ECHL or back here.

That fine but they didn’t have a goalie, everyone knew they didn’t have a goalie and yet they still kept Ludwinski. It is not like it was a surprise. They finished in 7th mostly because they didn’t have a goalie.
Kingston went into the year thinking the Vaccari would have a good year this year. Just lilke Ottawa expected MacK to have a good year and have a back up that could play games. Kingston did not have a back-up, so they brought in an OA that would be good. It turns out Vaccari is a so so back up.

When it comes to coaching wins and losses mean a lot to NHL teams BUT in order to get the wins and losses you have to develop the players. Tourigny was hired because of the way he developed the players he had and made them better players, thereby winning players.

TM is going to be examined in the same way he developed the players, as to whether he has a system that works in development and in winning.

To me, this coming year, 25/26, will go a long way toward showing that for him and DC. The challenge is that DC is not capable of developing forward.
 
I get what you are saying but, again, that’s the same counter argument with Ludwinski. That team will be UBER young. That team will be those two plus Williamson and a bunch of 16 and 17 year olds. There is zero chance that team will be competitive. I honestly feel we are talking the difference wil be 6th or 8th keeping him vs moving him. I would agree if the difference would be 4th vs 8th but I cannot see a team that young with a thin ‘09 group that mostly will consist of the two 1st rounders this year being competitive enough to be cavalier about keeping Hopkins just for the sake of keeping him.

We will need to see how the league unfolds and what sorts of NCAA signings they may make but if @ScoutLife4 is as accurate as I think he is with respect to Kingston not really being a preferred destination yet, it may be tough for them to bring guys in to help support that group so the emphasis will be on drafting. With two 1sts and then nothing until the 4th round, it will be tough to compile enough ‘09s.

We will see though. Maybe I am wrong and their crop of 16 and 17 year olds will be super good.

It really does not matter if the team is battling for 6th or 8th imo. It is a matter of what the team has designs on for the following year.
North Bay did not secure 8th by much this season. But it is important for a lot of new guys to sort out roles and learn to play together within the battalion system. There are 8-‘06s and 7-‘07s on that roster that have to be ready to start 2025-26 strong.

Kingston could very well, probably should concentrate on bringing in ‘08s via import and trade next season. The remaining ‘07s may play an important part in preparing the team for a competitive 2027-28 season.
 
It really does not matter if the team is battling for 6th or 8th imo. It is a matter of what the team has designs on for the following year.
North Bay did not secure 8th by much this season. But it is important for a lot of new guys to sort out roles and learn to play together within the battalion system. There are 8-‘06s and 7-‘07s on that roster that have to be ready to start 2025-26 strong.

Kingston could very well, probably should concentrate on bringing in ‘08s via import and trade next season. The remaining ‘07s may play an important part in preparing the team for a competitive 2027-28 season.

I think the Fronts will get a really good ‘08 or ‘09 for Battaglia. After that, if they aren’t trading Hopkins, they are looking at their three OAs. Neither Soto or Miedema are going to garner a great player to help build around. Those two are screaming draft picks as comp in trades. So, really, they will get what they get for Battaglia from a skater perspective. After that, they would need to move the OAs and use those picks in other deals right away (which is possible). But then they’d still have all those pick gaps that they are or should be trying to require using the OAs.

There really is no way around it. They are going to be super young in 2026-27 unless they sign NCAA guys. Maybe they can get Imports but there aren’t many good 18 year olds. The best ones are 17 and either they come over now or the following year. Crap shoot for the Fronts since their pipeline from Europe doesn’t pay off every year. At least it is not something to count on.

We differ in opinion regarding high value graduating players on inconsequential teams. Nothing wrong with that. I feel 100% of the time, you flip that player for the sizeable haul expected and push the assets forward because you can never have too many tangible assets in hand. You feel differently and that’s ok. We disagreed on Ludwinski last year and we will likely disagree on Hopkins in 2026-27.
 
If I were using the full season as a measure, I would probably slide Brantford ahead of Oshawa in that pecking order. The rest fall in the same line as you. I like where Brantford is right now. That is a very good “team.”

Brantford is probably the best coached team in the conference. Just too reliant on 8-9 skaters and special teams for me. Three rounds without injury and PP dry spell, Idk.
 
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Kingston graduates Uronen, Hayes, Pickell, Willis, Miedema, Hay, Soto, Guindon, Bishop, Pieniniemi, McGowan, Burns, Uens, Vaccari, and schenkel. Pick three to stay as OA’s but if any of them are good, they will be traded by the deadline. That is FOURTEEN players. Battaglia will be a deadline trade, so that’s 15. Hopkins is likley moved as well. He’s going to have nothing left to play with.
Agreed until you mentioned Hopkins. He gets moved year after. Dervin if anything could be the guy moved but with everyone graduating he will get lots of minutes which is what he’s there for.
Sorry, but Kingston will be AWFUL post-deadline. No way around it. They don’t even have a 2nd and 3rd in the draft next month so it is going to be tough for them to even bring in capable 16 year olds. The Fronts will be the worst team in the OHL post-deadline. They need to move players to recoup picks.
One of the worst. Could always be someone worse. Betts, Hopkins, Dervin, Williamson and the 2 imports will carry them, I think they finish out of playoffs though.
 
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I think the Fronts will get a really good ‘08 or ‘09 for Battaglia. After that, if they aren’t trading Hopkins, they are looking at their three OAs. Neither Soto or Miedema are going to garner a great player to help build around.
Likely picks only for Soto and Miedema if he’s back unless there’s some sort of package deal.

Battaglia a great 08 or 09 and fewer picks is my prediction- maybe in a package with one of our OA’s (bishop/mcgowan/soto/miedema/Hay top ones)

Will be a big summer for them- lots of people moved out.
 
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