Ottawa 67s 2024-25 Season Thread, Part II

[Larionov]

Those looking for a full tank and a high pick (and I now find myself as a convert to this thinking) should be happy - based on this game it doesn't look like this team will win another game this season. Now, we know that they will likely find a couple of wins here and there, but honestly, who are we better than right now? I can't think of any game in the last two months that says, "Ottawa should win this one." This team is circling the drain rapidly.

It's never one thing, of course, but a primary culprit of this team's crash has to be the goaltending. Nelson is who he is - a 17 year old finding his way in the league - but Mackenzie is a guy who was invited to a pro camp and who should have progressed into a top shelf OA goalie. Instead, his game appeared to fall apart and he regressed badly. Ask the Ottawa Senators and New Jersey Devils from last season - when your goalie isn't making the saves he should make and can't be your best penalty killer sometimes, it's tough to be competitive. Great goaltending doesn't guarantee that you will win, but mediocre goaltending pretty much guarantees that you're going to lose a lot...

 

[Larionov]

Also, this Stan Butler news out of Erie - what the heck? Does anyone know any details? All we hear is that he has been suspended by the club pending some kind of investigation, but beyond that the cone of silence has dropped. (Say this for OSEG - they tend to run pretty drama free sports teams, which is positive...)

 

[OMG67]

Also, this Stan Butler news out of Erie - what the heck? Does anyone know any details? All we hear is that he has been suspended by the club pending some kind of investigation, but beyond that the cone of silence has dropped. (Say this for OSEG - they tend to run pretty drama free sports teams, which is positive...)

I did discuss this with a few people and it looks like a situation between player and coach where Butler said something inappropriate to a level where it is likely if the allegations are proven after their internal review that it would result in Butler no longer being with the team. Let’s juse say the allegations are strong enough and serious enough that the organization deemed it necessary for the coach to be removed temporarily during the review process.

Those looking for a full tank and a high pick (and I now find myself as a convert to this thinking) should be happy - based on this game it doesn't look like this team will win another game this season. Now, we know that they will likely find a couple of wins here and there, but honestly, who are we better than right now? I can't think of any game in the last two months that says, "Ottawa should win this one." This team is circling the drain rapidly.

It's never one thing, of course, but a primary culprit of this team's crash has to be the goaltending. Nelson is who he is - a 17 year old finding his way in the league - but Mackenzie is a guy who was invited to a pro camp and who should have progressed into a top shelf OA goalie. Instead, his game appeared to fall apart and he regressed badly. Ask the Ottawa Senators and New Jersey Devils from last season - when your goalie isn't making the saves he should make and can't be your best penalty killer sometimes, it's tough to be competitive. Great goaltending doesn't guarantee that you will win, but mediocre goaltending pretty much guarantees that you're going to lose a lot...

MacKenzie has been very average and maybe even below average. Shocking really. He looked better as a 17 year old prior to his injury that resulted in Donoso being called up. I feel bad for him.

Nelson has been fine. Young goalie mistakes. His positioning and movement has gotten considerably better since the beginning of the year. The question for his is whether he can find a level of consistency as he matures. It isn’t often that even 18 year old goalies are capable in this league let alone 17 year olds so I think there is a lot of room for growth.

 

[OMG67]

Wonder if Souliere sticks around for a bit or maybe he's only there on an emergency basis due to the injury toll. He has good size at least at 6 foot 3 and 190lbs. Is he potentially one of those NCAA players the team might be able to convince to sign (heading to Princeton 26-27)?

Clearly Souliere is signed. His path suggests he wills tick with Ottawa starting next year. He was drafted by the 67’s and played U-18 as a 16 year old and had great success. As a 17 year old, he played Jr B and had great success. Now as an 18 year old in Jr A, he is having success. His next step is Major Junior. He is not committed ot Princeton until 2026-27 so he will likely be given every opportunity to stick with the 67’s as a 19 year old next year.

Caution on this one is that he wasn’t’ a great prospect when drafted. IT is not like he was going NCAA and he dropped like a rock and should have been a top 3 round pick. This is a kid that has clearly worked hard, gown into a good size and has had consistent success and improvement. The challenge is determining where his ceiling is. Has he reached in now in Jr A or is there still more room for maturity where his game will now translate to the OHL level?

 

[44 95 plus tax]

Might as well start following this now...

 

[OMG67]

To be clear, there is a significant importance to missing the playoffs. The obvious one is the lottery and the potential of getting pick #1. But, there is also the issue of defected players. Kingston picked Malhotra at # which means they get the #9 pick in the next draft. Both Youngstown and Muskegon have both applied to join the OHL. That application is being blocked by USA Hockey but they have now retained a serious lawyer to battle it. If USA Hockey steps away form it, we could see both teams added to the OHL next year. In the past, the expansion teams have been granted pick 4 and 5 after the non-playoff teams made their picks. The West is kinda weak at the bottom as well which may elevate the 8th place team in the East.

So, if the first four picks go to the non-playoff teams and then 5+6 go to expansion teams, that leaves picks 7 & 8 to the lowest two seeds not making the playoffs. Sarnia, SSM, and Flint are all poor teams. It is not inconceivable for the 8th place team in the East to finish ahead of two of those three teams. If that happens, the 8th placed team in the east would pick 10th!

If this were a normal season where the 8th placed team team in the East picks 5th, then no big deal but that is likely not the case this year.

If we are going to be crappy, we may as well pick early.

Where it also comes into play is the other two drafts. Our Priority Selection placing applies to both the Import draft and the U-18 draft. If Ottawa were to be fortunate and win the draft lottery, we’d have the #1 pick in the U-18 draft as well as the #2 pick in the Import draft. That opens some additional possibilities.

 

[ohloutsider]

To be clear, there is a significant importance to missing the playoffs. The obvious one is the lottery and the potential of getting pick #1. But, there is also the issue of defected players. Kingston picked Malhotra at # which means they get the #9 pick in the next draft. Both Youngstown and Muskegon have both applied to join the OHL. That application is being blocked by USA Hockey but they have now retained a serious lawyer to battle it. If USA Hockey steps away form it, we could see both teams added to the OHL next year. In the past, the expansion teams have been granted pick 4 and 5 after the non-playoff teams made their picks. The West is kinda weak at the bottom as well which may elevate the 8th place team in the East.

So, if the first four picks go to the non-playoff teams and then 5+6 go to expansion teams, that leaves picks 7 & 8 to the lowest two seeds not making the playoffs. Sarnia, SSM, and Flint are all poor teams. It is not inconceivable for the 8th place team in the East to finish ahead of two of those three teams. If that happens, the 8th placed team in the east would pick 10th!

If this were a normal season where the 8th placed team team in the East picks 5th, then no big deal but that is likely not the case this year.

If we are going to be crappy, we may as well pick early.

Where it also comes into play is the other two drafts. Our Priority Selection placing applies to both the Import draft and the U-18 draft. If Ottawa were to be fortunate and win the draft lottery, we’d have the #1 pick in the U-18 draft as well as the #2 pick in the Import draft. That opens some additional possibilities.

You only have to look at Windsor to see how a 1st overall ( OHL) pick in all 3 drafts can jump start your rebuild. Protas , Beltchz and Newlove. And Windsor may very well be better next year, but who knows?

 

[dirty12]

You only have to look at Windsor to see how a 1st overall ( OHL) pick in all 3 drafts can jump start your rebuild. Protas , Beltchz and Newlove. And Windsor may very well be better next year, but who knows?

Of all the ‘06s, Protas seems most ready and likely to graduate since AHL is an option.

 

[NoQuit67s]

CHL franchises, worth millions, can afford to pay players: study - TSN.ca

Study is part of lawsuit launched by former junior players alleging teams should be sharing more of their profits with players, Rick Westhead writes.

www.tsn.ca

Interesting list from the above article...

Ontario Hockey League Team Values​

OHL Team	Value
Ottawa 67s	$55.53 M
Mississauga Steelheads	$44.85 M
Hamilton Bulldogs	$32.69 M
London Knights	$23.02 M
Kitchener Rangers	$13.78 M
Windsor Spitfires	$13.26 M
Sudbury Wolves	$10.08 M
Oshawa Generals	$9.41 M
Barrie Colts	$8.53 M
Niagara IceDogs	$8.26 M
Guelph Storm	$7.69 M
Kingston Frontenacs	$7.76 M
Erie Otters	$6.25 M
Flint Firebirds	$6.22 M
Peterborough Petes	$4.95 M
Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds	$4.72 M
Sarnia Sting	$4.55 M
North Bay Battalion	$3.37 M
Saginaw Spirit	$3.13 M
Owen Sound Attack	$1.36 M

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[OMG67]

CHL franchises, worth millions, can afford to pay players: study - TSN.ca

Study is part of lawsuit launched by former junior players alleging teams should be sharing more of their profits with players, Rick Westhead writes.

www.tsn.ca

Interesting list from the above article...

Ontario Hockey League Team Values​

OHL Team	Value
Ottawa 67s	$55.53 M
Mississauga Steelheads	$44.85 M
Hamilton Bulldogs	$32.69 M
London Knights	$23.02 M
Kitchener Rangers	$13.78 M
Windsor Spitfires	$13.26 M
Sudbury Wolves	$10.08 M
Oshawa Generals	$9.41 M
Barrie Colts	$8.53 M
Niagara IceDogs	$8.26 M
Guelph Storm	$7.69 M
Kingston Frontenacs	$7.76 M
Erie Otters	$6.25 M
Flint Firebirds	$6.22 M
Peterborough Petes	$4.95 M
Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds	$4.72 M
Sarnia Sting	$4.55 M
North Bay Battalion	$3.37 M
Saginaw Spirit	$3.13 M
Owen Sound Attack	$1.36 M

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Pretty horrible evaluations. Totally ridiculous assumptions made to generate the values. No revenue model that includes actual sales and revenue data used in the valuations. Essentially the bigger the city, the higher the value of the team. Pretty crazy.

 

[sirius67fan]

Danny Briere was not impressed how the two Flyers prospects ( Luchanko and Bonk) were utilized by team Canada, that they were not given a role that aligned with their strenghts. Did not mention DC directly but....he's losing feathers by the day it seems.

 

[Larionov]

....he's losing feathers by the day it seems.

Lol - my wife is Acadian, and her favourite French to English expression is "losing feathers". It made no sense to me as an Anglo until I looked it up and understood the context. Love it...

 

[ScoutLife4]

Danny Briere was not impressed how the two Flyers prospects ( Luchanko and Bonk) were utilized by team Canada, that they were not given a role that aligned with their strenghts. Did not mention DC directly but....he's losing feathers by the day it seems.

Anyone know how long DC'S contract is for? I have been told a couple times over the past couple weeks he will not be back after this season but also told he is locked in for 2-3 more years after this season so not sure if that's true?
I honestly thought the heat on him would blow over after about a week of WJ's ending but almost every night he's the topic in the media / hospitality rooms I'm in and it's nothing positive I will say that.

 

[ecraigs]

It is being determined to get the best from your player energies, ideally is for your lines to have between 45 and 55 seconds shifts, depending on the amount of faceoffs the shift playing time can be extended

I know that this is the standard (totally unlike long ago, when guys like Phil Esposito claimed to need the first 2 minutes of each shift to "warm up"). The issue with Körbler is that he is the first to look for a change, usually within 30 seconds. It may be a conditioning issue or just how he was taught.

 

[OMG67]

Anyone know how long DC'S contract is for? I have been told a couple times over the past couple weeks he will not be back after this season but also told he is locked in for 2-3 more years after this season so not sure if that's true?
I honestly thought the heat on him would blow over after about a week of WJ's ending but almost every night he's the topic in the media / hospitality rooms I'm in and it's nothing positive I will say that.

Our understanding is he and Boyd have one more year. That Is not confirmed. I assume they signed Cameron to a three year deal initially (2021-24) and then they signed him and Boyd to a multi-year extension in October 2023. So, this is likely year one of either a 2 or 3 year extension. I don’t think they’d do 3 year extensions. I don’t think it is necessary and I don’t think Cameron would be concerned and push for an additional 3-years. So, my assumption is his extension was for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons.

So, if the multi-year deal is a two year extension, next season will be Camerons final contract year.

67's agree to multi-year extensions with James Boyd and Dave Cameron - Ottawa 67s

The Ottawa 67’s announced, today, that General Manager James Boyd, and Head Coach Dave Cameron have signed multi-year extensions with the team. “We have always felt the support from the organization and the people of Ottawa, while a special bond continues to form between our team and the...

chl.ca

My expectation is Cameron will “Retire” at the end of the season. Maybe he could find a job back in Europe but I doubt he will get many opportunities worth while in North America at this point.

 

[ecraigs]

Anyone know how long DC'S contract is for? I have been told a couple times over the past couple weeks he will not be back after this season but also told he is locked in for 2-3 more years after this season so not sure if that's true?
I honestly thought the heat on him would blow over after about a week of WJ's ending but almost every night he's the topic in the media / hospitality rooms I'm in and it's nothing positive I will say that.

He signed an extension last year for two years, I think.

 

[Larionov]

I actually don't have a problem with Cameron staying provided that the club is open and transparent as to what the plan actually is. Now that we have bottomed out what does the rebuild look like? When does the club foresee being competitive again? If the next two years are rebuilding years, and the plan is to be competitive in 2027-28, I can live with that - just tell us. At least I'll know that there is a plan. What ticks me off is when the GM goes on the radio and pretends that we are competitive when in fact we aren't. Either he isn't being honest, or he is delusional...

 

[sirius67fan]

Lol - my wife is Acadian, and her favourite French to English expression is "losing feathers". It made no sense to me as an Anglo until I looked it up and understood the context. Love it...

Come to think of it I did unintentionally translate a french saying lol...yes my first language is french.

 

[beastintheeast]

I actually don't have a problem with Cameron staying provided that the club is open and transparent as to what the plan actually is. Now that we have bottomed out what does the rebuild look like? When does the club foresee being competitive again? If the next two years are rebuilding years, and the plan is to be competitive in 2027-28, I can live with that - just tell us. At least I'll know that there is a plan. What ticks me off is when the GM goes on the radio and pretends that we are competitive when in fact we aren't. Either he isn't being honest, or he is delusional...

If DC stays this team could get worse instead of better. We have all heard or read the fumours of discontent and player refusals to play here.

As to the draft don't worry we already know who Boyd will draft and that is Kingston Harris he meets the height requirement and weight that they are looking for/

 

[ScoutLife4]

Our understanding is he and Boyd have one more year. That Is not confirmed. I assume they signed Cameron to a three year deal initially (2021-24) and then they signed him and Boyd to a multi-year extension in October 2023. So, this is likely year one of either a 2 or 3 year extension. I don’t think they’d do 3 year extensions. I don’t think it is necessary and I don’t think Cameron would be concerned and push for an additional 3-years. So, my assumption is his extension was for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons.

So, if the multi-year deal is a two year extension, next season will be Camerons final contract year.

67's agree to multi-year extensions with James Boyd and Dave Cameron - Ottawa 67s

The Ottawa 67’s announced, today, that General Manager James Boyd, and Head Coach Dave Cameron have signed multi-year extensions with the team. “We have always felt the support from the organization and the people of Ottawa, while a special bond continues to form between our team and the...

chl.ca

My expectation is Cameron will “Retire” at the end of the season. Maybe he could find a job back in Europe but I doubt he will get many opportunities worth while in North America at this point.

Will be interesting to see what happens.
I'm assuming he thought he may have opportunity to advance somewhere if he performed well at WJ but it could not have went any worse for him.
Until those 2 years with the sens he never really made any real money career wise until he got that 2 years deal which i believe totaled about 2.5M USD.
He should be pretty comfortable to retire i would think which is what most think he will do to go out without embarrassment of being fired.
You guys are in a tough spot because so many NHL front offices are disturbed with his decision making and turned off of the organization now.

 

[Larionov]

Here's what I think is a little unfair for Cameron - he actually won that tournament in August 2022 (The delayed COVID tournament.) For those who say that it wasn't a "real" world juniors, it was - everyone sent their best kids, and everyone was competing on the same ice. So if you are going to dump on Cameron for this result, you have to give him credit for the one he recently won. Otherwise, you are just unfairly dunking on the guy. Did he make some mistakes at this past WJC? Absolutely he did, but the fact remains that the team Canada fairly handily beat on opening night (Finland) won the silver and took the Americans to overtime.

Canada picked a bad roster, and fell apart during a short tournament - it happens. We've seen it happen to the Americans at that tournament multiple times. Cameron isn't immune from criticism, (especially for his dumb comments around why they didn't practice) but let's not judge a guy's successful 30 plus year coaching career by one bad ten day stretch. That Peter Anholt guy, who has never won a thing in junior hockey but somehow ended up as the GM, should wear a lot of it as well for his stupid roster decisions.

I'll end with this - the late Pat Quinn is in the Hall of Fame, and deservedly so. He coached our 2009 World Junior Team, one that was absolutely loaded with future NHL stars. (Dave Cameron was the assistant coach.) That team was five seconds away from getting knocked out of the tournament, and frankly got outplayed for most of that game against the Russians. One good bounce, and everyone's memory of Pat Quinn coaching that team, that tournament, etc totally changed. Just saying...

 

[OMG67]

Will be interesting to see what happens.
I'm assuming he thought he may have opportunity to advance somewhere if he performed well at WJ but it could not have went any worse for him.
Until those 2 years with the sens he never really made any real money career wise until he got that 2 years deal which i believe totaled about 2.5M USD.
He should be pretty comfortable to retire i would think which is what most think he will do to go out without embarrassment of being fired.
You guys are in a tough spot because so many NHL front offices are disturbed with his decision making and turned off of the organization now.

It depends on what you mean by real money. If he retires and get paid out his final year of five years for the 2025-26 season, I would imagine that five years was worth at least $750k if it was $150k per year. I imagine it was more than $150k per year. As a head coach in St. Mike’s/Mississauga and Binghamton from 2001-11 for that ten year stretch, he’d likely have made at least $100k per year on the average. Assistants in the NHL at the time he was there were making in the $150k-$250k range.

If I had to estimate his career coaching earnings through next season, I would imagine it would be in the $5-$6mil range. On top of that he had his player earnings. 168 NHL games played, so tow full NHL seasons plus his Minor League career over five meaningful seasons.

He doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy that throws his $$$ around. He’s probably set up nicely overall. He can also supplement whatever income he has by doing some consulting work or scouting if he wants to stay in hockey in some other capacity. He won’t have a hard time finding meaningful work, but if he wants to be behind the bench, it likely would need to be in Europe.

 

[OMG67]

Here's what I think is a little unfair for Cameron - he actually won that tournament in August 2022 (The delayed COVID tournament.) For those who say that it wasn't a "real" world juniors, it was - everyone sent their best kids, and everyone was competing on the same ice. So if you are going to dump on Cameron for this result, you have to give him credit for the one he recently won. Otherwise, you are just unfairly dunking on the guy. Did he make some mistakes at this past WJC? Absolutely he did, but the fact remains that the team Canada fairly handily beat on opening night (Finland) won the silver and took the Americans to overtime.

Canada picked a bad roster, and fell apart during a short tournament - it happens. We've seen it happen to the Americans at that tournament multiple times. Cameron isn't immune from criticism, (especially for his dumb comments around why they didn't practice) but let's not judge a guy's successful 30 plus year coaching career by one bad ten day stretch. That Peter Anholt guy, who has never won a thing in junior hockey but somehow ended up as the GM, should wear a lot of it as well for his stupid roster decisions.

I'll end with this - the late Pat Quinn is in the Hall of Fame, and deservedly so. He coached our 2009 World Junior Team, one that was absolutely loaded with future NHL stars. (Dave Cameron was the assistant coach.) That team was five seconds away from getting knocked out of the tournament, and frankly got outplayed for most of that game against the Russians. One good bounce, and everyone's memory of Pat Quinn coaching that team, that tournament, etc totally changed. Just saying...

I think you may be cherry picking a bit. I know you are trying to balance the books so doing that isn’t a bad thing. He won a Silver and a Gold over three tourneys as a head coach. That is a fine record.

With respect to the 2009 tournament, that was a tough tournament. The Russians and Americans were both VERY Good teams. Losing to either would have been disappointing but it wouldn’t have been a complete shocker. Team canada goaltending was awful. However, you cannot equate losing a Q-Final game after going 4-0 in the round robin as a one off loss to a Team Canada team that was lost from start to finish in this tournament. This was not a situation where Canada went into the Q-Final riding high and got “goalied.” This was a team that sucked donkey balls the entire tourney. Cameron was getting criticized early, and rightfully so, for a lot of the poor decisions and stubbornness surrounding the decisions.

We can criticize the selection of the team but that team was more than good enough o run over Czechia. Man for man, the Team canada roster was vastly superior to the Czechia roster. In fact, the only roster better ron paper than the Canada roster was Team USA. No other team stacked up to Team Canada on paper. So, we can point to players not selected but the reality is that Team Canada was still stacked. There were Import players on other teams that wouldn’t have been considered for a Team Canada “D” team let alone their “A” team.

The funny part of all this criticism that has plagued Cameron WRT his Team Canada decisions is that all of those decisions parallel a lot of the negative issues surrounding the 67’s! This is nothing new for us. Elevating players that should not be elevated. Using players out of position and in the wrong situations. All sorts of random stuff with Team Canada also applies to the 67’s. Acquiring Mintyukov as a dynamic offensive D-Man “rental” and then putting handcuffs on him is a good example.

This goes far deeper than the WJC. He may have an external spotlight on him because of that but that spotlight has been on him now for over a year as a result of issues managing the 67’s bench. The question isn’t whether we want to keep Cameron another year. The question is whether we trust him to manage this team through the next full cycle. If you keep Cameron for next year, you need to keep him for the next 4-years through the full next cycle. Is he the best person for that job? It is not like the 67’s are hurting for cash. They do well. They can afford to invest in a different person if they feel it is best for the team.

 

[AGranderson]

Will be interesting to see what happens.
I'm assuming he thought he may have opportunity to advance somewhere if he performed well at WJ but it could not have went any worse for him.
Until those 2 years with the sens he never really made any real money career wise until he got that 2 years deal which i believe totaled about 2.5M USD.
He should be pretty comfortable to retire i would think which is what most think he will do to go out without embarrassment of being fired.
You guys are in a tough spot because so many NHL front offices are disturbed with his decision making and turned off of the organization now.

Pal something you say are so pathetic it’s unbelievable how much you don’t understand things some times, think before you type sometimes

Are we just going to talk about Cameron daily on here now because I’m out if so

 

[OMG67]

Pal something you say are so pathetic it’s unbelievable how much you don’t understand things some times, think before you type sometimes

Are we just going to talk about Cameron daily on here now because I’m out if so

As of right now, the decision on how this team processes who should be the next person to guide the team and its development the next four years is quite possibly the most important decision this franchise needs to land on going forward. It will impact development of existing players, recruitment of future players and above all the overall success on the ice.