Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[analyser]

We all may have a differing level of expectation and goal than the Management team. We are assuming they want to win a Championship as their primary objective. That may not be the case.

We can question the decisions but we don’t know what the goal is. If the goal was to win a championship then Boyd dropped the ball. He knew it was 50-50 for Boucher. There was discussion of surgery prior to the deadline. It was probable that the 67s would be hard pressed to get Boucher the remainder of the season and playoffs.

Conversely, the goal could have been to add what they felt they could stomachs and hope for the best against older and more experienced teams in Peterborough and North Bay. If it isn’t enough then it isn’t enough but the younger players would get the experience they need for future runs. If the primary goal was to build this young group then they have met their goal.

Well if the primary goal was to build this young team I think we went a little overboard by paying the prices for Morrison and Mintyukov. Just my opinion but I think some other less expensive acquisitions could have done a similar job.

 

[Larionov]

Both teams are generating shots, typically over 30. Shots aren’t the issue. The issue is scoring opportunities.

Ottawa is generating more scoring opportunities. They aren’t capitalizing on them.

Cameron needs to shorten his bench and run his horses out more. Stop rolling the 4th line. Stop rolling the 3rd D-Pairing as much.

Mintyukov should be on the ice for 30 minutes and Matier/Mayich probably at least 25.

Equity of ice time needs to stop. It isn’t working.

If you look at the players that were on the ice for the goals against yesterday, all of the players pointed to were on. When we have goals against and we see the 4th line, the young D-Men and Costantini, it highlights what I’ve been saying.

Additionally, it isn’t just about the defence. It is about puck movement from the defence. It isn’t effective as you’ve said.

I am happy with Ottawa’s approach. We knew going into the playoffs that a young team with lighter bodies would progressively have more difficulty accessing the net front. This means we need to prevent goals. If that is the case then at least make sure your top 6 D-Men are playing and run out your top 4 at least 50 minutes per game. Stop playing the 4th line and let your top guys get into a rhythm with more ice time.

It's a cliche, but it's true - if you want to win in the playoffs, your best guys have to be your best guys. If you finish a playoff series and you are first commenting on how well your young guys and your role players played, you probably lost. Therefore, they absolutely have to give the the top guns more ice time. It's going to be the 2002 and 2003 birthdays leading the way on Thursday if we want to tie the series - this rolling four lines stuff to save guys for the later rounds is great while you are winning, but we aren't anymore. Looking for a lot more from Morrison and Minty on Thursday...

 

[OMG67]

Well if the primary goal was to build this young team I think we went a little overboard by paying the prices for Morrison and Mintyukov. Just my opinion but I think some other less expensive acquisitions could have done a similar job.

Agreed with your statement which is why I feel the primary goal is a Championship run. However, it may not be quite as primary as we seem to think. They were unwilling to sacrifice any of the younger players that fit into the future to go on the championship run. Therefore, how much focus is placed on that? They may be willing to lose earlier for the sake of development.

IMO, Cooper Foster was the odd man out. Maybe Chris Barlas as well. In addition, they have a kid like Ewles or maybe even Sirman that could have been used to help bolster the lineup through trade. They didn’t do it. This is why I question exactly how committed this management team is to a Championship run.

 

[OMG67]

It's a cliche, but it's true - if you want to win in the playoffs, your best guys have to be your best guys. If you finish a playoff series and you are first commenting on how well your young guys and your role players played, you probably lost. Therefore, they absolutely have to give the the top guns more ice time. It's going to be the 2002 and 2003 birthdays leading the way on Thursday if we want to tie the series - this rolling four lines stuff to save guys for the later rounds is great while you are winning, but we aren't anymore. Looking for a lot more from Morrison and Minty on Thursday...

This is 100% true. Run out our horses. Even if you have to condense into 2 scoring lines and make a 3rd line that hopefully won’t hurt you, then do it.

Beck - Tolnai - Stonehouse (24 minutes)
Pinelli - Morrison - Rohrer (24 minutes)
Gerrior - Gardiner - Foster (12 minutes)
Barlas - XXX - Mews (these guys sub in and take a shift here and there but do not play at the same time. Helps keep the wingers fresh)

Defense pairings:
Mintyukov - Matier (18 minutes)
Mayich - Matier (10 minutes)
Mintyukov - Marrelli (10 minutes)
Sirman - Costantini (12 minutes)
Mayich - Smyth (10 minutes)

To me, from a division of minutes to get you through 60 minutes, this is the ideal situation. Matier and Mintyukov play as the primary pairing for a full 18 minutes. They double shift for ten minutes each with Mayich and Marrelli. Mayich still gets close to 20 minutes as the #3 Playing with Matier and Smyth. The rest fills in as needed with around 10-12 minutes each.

Matier & Mintyukov - 28 minutes each
Mayich - 20 minutes
Sirman and Costantini - 12 minutes each
Smyth and Marrelli - 10 minutes each

Mews moves up to forward. He has an offensive gift and can help in that regard.

I can accept losing running out our horses. I cannot accept losing with Matier, Mintyukov, Morrison and Tolnai playing 18-20 minutes per game.

 

[Newbie Observer]

He's building for next year by keeping and playing the kids. If they get a shot this year, then all the better. Have to experiencing winning, in order to win it all. Next year, with Saginaw a front runner in the West, you may only have to win the East to get into the Mem Cup. He's got two shots at it. Play the young guys and give them experience and hope the vets come through when needed this year, and if not it builds experience for a run next year. Its still anyones series.

 

[OMG67]

He's building for next year by keeping and playing the kids. If they get a shot this year, then all the better. Have to experiencing winning, in order to win it all. Next year, with Saginaw a front runner in the West, you may only have to win the East to get into the Mem Cup. He's got two shots at it. Play the young guys and give them experience and hope the vets come through when needed this year, and if not it builds experience for a run next year. Its still anyones series.

Then why trade so many picks this year to handcuff yourself next year? Ottawa has no 2nds, 3rds, or 4ths in 2025 and 2026 to use as bait for augmenting next year’s team. Additionally, we dont’ have a viable crop of 19 year olds to return as OAs next year either. So, I don’t understand the logic of the real year being next year.

 

[dirty12]

He's building for next year by keeping and playing the kids. If they get a shot this year, then all the better. Have to experiencing winning, in order to win it all. Next year, with Saginaw a front runner in the West, you may only have to win the East to get into the Mem Cup. He's got two shots at it. Play the young guys and give them experience and hope the vets come through when needed this year, and if not it builds experience for a run next year. Its still anyones series.

The west right now seems much stronger than the east for next season. If the odds are very good, I’ll put $ on Guelph & maybe OS for an OHL title.
The wolves made three trades moving picks to the future, no doubt they plan to contend.

 

[Newbie Observer]

Never said next year is the real year. He took a shot at this year with the two high end trades at the break. However, if this year doesnt work out, the experience of the younger players (and why he never traded any of them) is that you have a very good team next year to make a run. One or two trades, and you get picks back. Plus, you seemed to answer your own question earlier in the discussion thread.

""Conversely, the goal could have been to add what they felt they could stomachs and hope for the best against older and more experienced teams in Peterborough and North Bay. If it isn’t enough then it isn’t enough but the younger players would get the experience they need for future runs. If the primary goal was to build this young group then they have met their goal.""

 

[OMG67]

Never said next year is the real year. He took a shot at this year with the two high end trades at the break. However, if this year doesnt work out, the experience of the younger players (and why he never traded any of them) is that you have a very good team next year to make a run. One or two trades, and you get picks back. Plus, you seemed to answer your own question earlier in the discussion thread.

""Conversely, the goal could have been to add what they felt they could stomachs and hope for the best against older and more experienced teams in Peterborough and North Bay. If it isn’t enough then it isn’t enough but the younger players would get the experience they need for future runs. If the primary goal was to build this young group then they have met their goal.""

Your second option is what I am saying is quite possible. Give them a chance but don’t commit. Championship is not the primary goal. Maintaining stability and competitiveness next year and forward is the primary goal.

 

[beastintheeast]

Both teams are generating shots, typically over 30. Shots aren’t the issue. The issue is scoring opportunities.

Ottawa is generating more scoring opportunities. They aren’t capitalizing on them.

Cameron needs to shorten his bench and run his horses out more. Stop rolling the 4th line. Stop rolling the 3rd D-Pairing as much.

Mintyukov should be on the ice for 30 minutes and Matier/Mayich probably at least 25.

Equity of ice time needs to stop. It isn’t working.

If you look at the players that were on the ice for the goals against yesterday, all of the players pointed to were on. When we have goals against and we see the 4th line, the young D-Men and Costantini, it highlights what I’ve been saying.

Additionally, it isn’t just about the defence. It is about puck movement from the defence. It isn’t effective as you’ve said.

I am happy with Ottawa’s approach. We knew going into the playoffs that a young team with lighter bodies would progressively have more difficulty accessing the net front. This means we need to prevent goals. If that is the case then at least make sure your top 6 D-Men are playing and run out your top 4 at least 50 minutes per game. Stop playing the 4th line and let your top guys get into a rhythm with more ice time.

9 shots in a period is not good, especially frOm this team. PERIOD

 

[beastintheeast]

Your answer to the defence is to rely more heavily on 16 and 17 year olds?

There is nothing wrong with any of the current players on the roster. It is how they are deployed that is the issue.

My answer has nothing to do with age it has everything to do with who is effective and who s not. If we went with age then canstantini is the player that would get all the ice time.
How did that work our last game?

I am stricly looking at the stats and who is + and who is minus.

YOU yourself have said tht Constantini does not look good out there so why defence him and put down the young guys.

By your thought pattern the Makar in Colorado or a kid named Orr would have gotten less ice time because they were young.

Horse excrement you play with the players that are hot and playing well and for those that are not you put on the bench and play with limited ice time.

Constantini has the pressure of being the OA leader and is choking.

Age has nothing to do with sports it is strictly who is able to get the job done.

 

[beastintheeast]

Your second option is what I am saying is quite possible. Give them a chance but don’t commit. Championship is not the primary goal. Maintaining stability and competitiveness next year and forward is the primary goal.

The primary goal of the 67's and many other teams is not Championships but putting a product on the ice that keeps fans coming back for more.

Good teams are able to do that annually. When was the last time London drafted in the top 5.
There is too much challenge for the entertainment buck in Ottawa to be able to say we will go for it and have a bad year for a couple.The five year plan is always the same and has always been the same
Let's put a competitive team on the ice every year.

The only time thye did not do that was when they were at the Sens palace

 

[OMG67]

9 shots in a period is not good, especially frOm this team. PERIOD

If 9 shots in a period is not good then the expectation is 40+ shots for. That is ridiculous.

9 shots x3 is 27 shots. 30-35 shots is usually the goal in competitive games. Expecting more than that is unrealistic.

My answer has nothing to do with age it has everything to do with who is effective and who s not. If we went with age then canstantini is the player that would get all the ice time.
How did that work our last game?

I am stricly looking at the stats and who is + and who is minus.

YOU yourself have said tht Constantini does not look good out there so why defence him and put down the young guys.

By your thought pattern the Makar in Colorado or a kid named Orr would have gotten less ice time because they were young.

Horse excrement you play with the players that are hot and playing well and for those that are not you put on the bench and play with limited ice time.

Constantini has the pressure of being the OA leader and is choking.

Age has nothing to do with sports it is strictly who is able to get the job done.

I said that Costantini was not deployed properly. Deploy him properly and he will be effective.

Imagine if you started to deploy Makar as the defensively responsible one of the pairing? What do you think would happen when Makar is the guy always back? That’s the point.

You are advocating to put in a 17 year old rookie with zero playoff experience to replace a 20 year old veteran. That is plain ridiculous and you should know that. We are commenting that the stud 16 year olds are being relied upon too much and your answer is to put in a 17 year old with little experience? That’s jsut crazy talk.

 

[OMG67]

The primary goal of the 67's and many other teams is not Championships but putting a product on the ice that keeps fans coming back for more.

Good teams are able to do that annually. When was the last time London drafted in the top 5.
There is too much challenge for the entertainment buck in Ottawa to be able to say we will go for it and have a bad year for a couple.The five year plan is always the same and has always been the same
Let's put a competitive team on the ice every year.

The only time thye did not do that was when they were at the Sens palace

If in a competitive year your goal isn’t to win a Championship you need to be fired on the spot. No questions.

 

[Race Dawg]

9 shots in a period is not good, especially frOm this team. PERIOD

100%

 

[Robray12]

In order to win we need to find a way to get back to our fast skating game....
Hustle more and seriously we can take this series.....next one not so sure.

 

[Larionov]

Heard Cameron on TSN 1200 yesterday - apparently they took the kids to a working farm yesterday (cattle operation, IIRC) for a tour. I thought it was brilliant, actually - get their minds off hockey for a bit, plus I think it is always a great idea for city people to get an up close look at where their food comes from and how hard farmers and ranchers work to make it happen.

For all that is holy, we need to get off to a fast start tonight. A quick 2-0 lead would force the Petes to adjust their game and give our kids a boost of confidence...

 

[Race Dawg]

Your second option is what I am saying is quite possible. Give them a chance but don’t commit. Championship is not the primary goal. Maintaining stability and competitiveness next year and forward is the primary goal.

This year wasn't supposed the "year" but by surprising everyone including all these so-called experts, the team did very well exceeding expectations by winning the OHL title. I get the reason on why you throw your rookies to the wolves to get experience which should bode well for next year in that regard. Some of ya'll are just disappointed because their vulnerability has been exposed by Peterborough. The Petes, a talented team that UNDERACHIEVED this year > admittingly obvious by their own fans. Ya the 67's took care of Oshawa pretty easily but let's be honest here they're (Oshawa) a really bad team so that's a poor measuring stick.

 

[Race Dawg]

For all that is holy, we need to get off to a fast start tonight.

That statement is a must. Pretty well a "must win' game for the 67's tonight. The Petes are standing Ottawa up at the line as they come in mostly. The few times the 67's play the dump and chase game they are not winning the majority of battles along the boards. Don't rush the play when you see the Peterborough players coming for you, stand in and take the hit, make the play. Way too many giveaways, no look passes and something Killer never allowed was the dreaded "drop pass" lol

Can't see them going back there winning a game 6 if they lose tonight (provided they win at home) if it came down to it.

 

[OMG67]

This year wasn't supposed the "year" but by surprising everyone including all these so-called experts, the team did very well exceeding expectations by winning the OHL title. I get the reason on why you throw your rookies to the wolves to get experience which should bode well for next year in that regard. Some of ya'll are just disappointed because their vulnerability has been exposed by Peterborough. The Petes, a talented team that UNDERACHIEVED this year > admittingly obvious by their own fans. Ya the 67's took care of Oshawa pretty easily but let's be honest here they're (Oshawa) a really bad team so that's a poor measuring stick.

In fairness, many of us knew the vulnerabilities and wanted two more additions to plug those holes. Boyd sort of did it half cocked and decided to flip coins in the playoffs for outcomes.

Many of us wanted one more centre so Rohrer could shift to the wing. I wanted a RHD to play with Mintyukov.

Zito would have satisfied the centre position. I’m not sure who would have been best option for the D-Man but an experienced D-Man with some size to cover Minty would have made a huge difference.

The m cool with plying the 16 year olds in the regular season but rolling them out 17-20 minutes per game is excessive when you have horses that can play huge minutes

 

[NordiquesForeva]

This is 100% true. Run out our horses. Even if you have to condense into 2 scoring lines and make a 3rd line that hopefully won’t hurt you, then do it.

Beck - Tolnai - Stonehouse (24 minutes)
Pinelli - Morrison - Rohrer (24 minutes)
Gerrior - Gardiner - Foster (12 minutes)
Barlas - XXX - Mews (these guys sub in and take a shift here and there but do not play at the same time. Helps keep the wingers fresh)

Defense pairings:
Mintyukov - Matier (18 minutes)
Mayich - Matier (10 minutes)
Mintyukov - Marrelli (10 minutes)
Sirman - Costantini (12 minutes)
Mayich - Smyth (10 minutes)

To me, from a division of minutes to get you through 60 minutes, this is the ideal situation. Matier and Mintyukov play as the primary pairing for a full 18 minutes. They double shift for ten minutes each with Mayich and Marrelli. Mayich still gets close to 20 minutes as the #3 Playing with Matier and Smyth. The rest fills in as needed with around 10-12 minutes each.

Matier & Mintyukov - 28 minutes each
Mayich - 20 minutes
Sirman and Costantini - 12 minutes each
Smyth and Marrelli - 10 minutes each

Mews moves up to forward. He has an offensive gift and can help in that regard.

I can accept losing running out our horses. I cannot accept losing with Matier, Mintyukov, Morrison and Tolnai playing 18-20 minutes per game.

This is the way (although I think there is an approximate 5% chance we see Mews at wing and Sirman at defense). Our backs are up against the wall, so Cameron needs ride his horses and if we go down, go down swinging. 28-30 mins tonight for Matier and Mintyukov should be the expectation, 20-24 for Mayich imo. They're young and will be ready for game 5 on Saturday. Some combination of those three, and probably Smyth (who has been reasonably good at withstanding the forecheck even if he often employs a simple dump-out), need to be on the ice for any d-zone faceoffs. The rest of the minutes will fall into place. I bet we'd see Mews and Marrelli be much more effective with their fewer minutes and more favourable zone starts.

Its up to Cameron to devise a way to solve Peterborough's "trap". Chip and chase with the winger on the boards hasn't been overly effective this series for Ottawa as the forwards aren't moving their feet and timing is off so the forecheck is oftentimes futile. Regardless, we haven't been winning enough puck battles down low to create scoring opportunities this way. I bet we'll some stretch pass attempts. What I'd like to see is Cameron unshackling Mintyukov and letting his skating and passing skill take over. Once the red line was removed in the NHL the trap soon went out of style as NHL-quality players could beat it with skill. It all comes back to pairing Mintyukov with the right partner (Matier or Mayich) and utilizing that NHL-quality skill level.

 

[ecraigs]

9 shots in a period is not good, especially frOm this team. PERIOD

I am not as concerned with the total count of shots, as I am with the decision-making. A minor example is the end of game 3. Rohrer had the puck on his stick in a good shooting area with a crowd in front of the net, 2 seconds left. Did he try to squeeze the puck to the net? Nope, he tried to pass off to a teammate on the far side. No shot, buzzer, game over. The shot option may not have worked (lots of bodies in there), but the pass was hopeless.

Maybe a bad example, but it seems typical of how the games have gone for some time.

 

[OMG67]

Same lineup tonight as Tuesday. ZERO changes. I guess there is not cause for concern. Business as usual.

 

[swoopster]

You put up 9 draft picks to get a guy who has been woefully under utilized by your team... I don't understand the move in retrospect.

 

[OMG67]

You put up 9 draft picks to get a guy who has been woefully under utilized by your team... I don't understand the move in retrospect.

We have two 16 year olds on the back end that need a lot of development ice time. That’s what’s important, ya know! Follow along….. Results are measured differently in Ottawa. We don’t measure success by playoffs success. That is so 20th Century. We measure it by how well we develop our youngin’s. By the end of the playoffs, we need to ensure that our 16 and 17 year olds are really good next year so we can trade our 19 and 20 year olds to recoup the draft picks we used this year.

This is the formula used to ensure you are always good. Who wants to be great? That is too much pressure. Good is fine in Ottawa.