Proposal: (OTT 2 trades) Chabot Joseph Pulock Pageau Mangiapane

[lanceuppercut75]

1ST TRADE

to New York Islanders
Thomas Chabot (4y @ $8.00m)
Mathieu Joseph (2y @ $2.95m)
OTT maybe adds a pick/prospect (???) or not
TOTAL CAP = $10.95m

to Ottawa Senators
Ryan Pulock (6y @ $6.15m)
Jean-Gabriel Pageau (2y @ $5.00m)
TOTAL CAP = $11.15m

2ND TRADE

to Calgary Flames
Jean-Gabriel Pageau (2y @ $5.00m)
Anton Forsberg (1y @ $2.75m)
OTT maybe adds a pick/prospect (???) or not
TOTAL CAP = $7.75m

to Ottawa Senators
Andrew Mangiapane (1y @ $5.80m)
Daniel Vladar (1y @ $2.20m)
TOTAL CAP = $8.00m


New York Islanders shake up their D core and roster in general which is needed. Chabot is 4 years not 6 like Pulock. Maybe Romanov can move to the right side, or maybe Mayfield can move into the top 4 and one of Pelech Romanov can play third pair (until more changes are made in the next year). Islanders have a surplus of centers, so they can definitely move a center for a winger. Lou needs to start deciding which players are gonna be here in 5 years and which aren't. Pageau is a no. Pulock some fans are speculating is a no. Chabot could be a yes.

Calgary Flames like Sharangovich as a winger more than a center, meaning a 3rd line center could/should be added. Mangiapane was likely on the way out anyways. Pageau is only a 2 year commitment and can be traded as a rental in 1.5 years. Swapping Vladar for Forsberg is no big deal as neither will be on the team after this year. Vladar is maybe the better player but Calgary is doing a temporary re-tool thing right now. If Wolf looks very good, Forsberg could be waived to make room for Wolf, if Calgary really wanted to win games now or play Wolf in the NHL now.

Ottawa Senators shake up the locker room a little bit and bring in a RD that could potentially form a great pairing with Sanderson for the next 6 years. Chychrun can be traded (replaced by Kleven) or stay for a bit and play with Zub. Joseph for 2 years becomes Mangiapane for 1 year, which improves the 2nd line and offers more roster and cap flexibility beyond this season. Vladar is an upgrade on Forsberg, so maybe could help Ottawa win some games this year. Unless Korpisalo is traded out at some point, it's likely Vladar is replaced by Sogaard next summer. Until then, Vladar seems like a good fit for Ottawa.

EDITED
( had to edit this to correct Pulock's cap hit, I accidentally used Pelech's cap hit )

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[JTToilinginToronto]

Looks good to me.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Pulock has a full NTC, so he's not coming to Ottawa

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Pulock has a full NTC, so he's not coming to Ottawa

Pulock will always be second fiddle to Noah Dobson at RD in New York going forward. If he agrees to move to Ottawa, he can be THE guy at RD (first pair, powerplay, penalty kill). I know that a good amount of players with NMC wouldn't waive for Ottawa, but it's not an automatic given that none of them would be interested in playing there. Pulock is a Canadian boy from Manitoba. Maybe he wouldn't mind going back to Canada to live.

 

[majormajor]

Chabot is overpaid so I think Ottawa would have to pay more there to move him. Taking on Pageau helps but not enough.

Then trading Pageau and Forsberg, who are on negative contracts, I think Calgary would need a sweetener.

 

[CanadienShark]

Looks fairly reasonable to me. Maybe a little light on value going to Calgary, but I don't like them so that's ok with me.

 

[GCK]

First trade is fine. There is no point in Ottawa making the 2nd trade.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Chabot is coming off a disappointing year. He's capable of much better.

I would probably do Chabot for Pulock one for one but if the Islanders don't like that, I'm walking away. I don't like any of the other moves for Ottawa.

 

[blankall]

So Calgary gets older worse players and adds an extra $5 million in cap in year two? That's outrageously bad and only happens if Ottawa is adding a huge futures piece.

If Calgary wants to move on from Mangiapane, they just trade him for assets. Calgary has a log jam of middle six prospects. They gave zero need for Pageau, who with two years has negative value.

 

[seabass45]

Pulock will always be second fiddle to Noah Dobson at RD in New York going forward. If he agrees to move to Ottawa, he can be THE guy at RD (first pair, powerplay, penalty kill). I know that a good amount of players with NMC wouldn't waive for Ottawa, but it's not an automatic given that none of them would be interested in playing there. Pulock is a Canadian boy from Manitoba. Maybe he wouldn't mind going back to Canada to live.

When Pulock signed an eight year extension he knew there was a very good chance that he'd eventually cede the first pair role to Dobson. I'd imagine making the playoffs is a higher priority than being THE guy, particularly when you can still get plenty of PP and PK time on the second pair.

He's not waiving.

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

Any interest in Chychrun + Joseph for Pulock?

I dream he would waive to come here, would be a great fit at RD.

 

[SEALBound]

In a vacuum, trades are pretty even.

 

[WangMustGo]

Any interest in Chychrun + Joseph for Pulock?

I dream he would waive to come here, would be a great fit at RD.

I think if the isles were moving Pulock it would be for a 1st line forward.

I wouldn’t move Pulock for a soon to be UFA unless it was a sign and trade.

 

[seabass45]

Any interest in Chychrun + Joseph for Pulock?

I dream he would waive to come here, would be a great fit at RD.

Not really, it's a misuse of assets for NY. We need help up front, so in theory the ask would be a high impact forward.

 

[Nanuuk]

Brutal for the Flames. Absolutely brutal. It will cost more than that to get Mangiapane or Vladar.

Chances are Mangiapane and Markstrom are traded and if they go together it will be to a team with a serious offer.

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

I think if the isles were moving Pulock it would be for a 1st line forward.

I wouldn’t move Pulock for a soon to be UFA unless it was a sign and trade.

It would be with the agreement of an extension with Chychrun's camp. I don't think Ottawa has any top 6 forwards to spare.

The only option would be Norris but I imagine NYI would be looking for a more "assured" player.

 

[tmg]

Then trading Pageau and Forsberg, who are on negative contracts, I think Calgary would need a sweetener.

I think to most onlookers, all four of Pageau, Forsberg, Vladar, and Mangiapane are on negative contracts.

Mangiapane is a 5.8 million dollar player coming off consecutive sub-20-goal seasons. He hasn’t scored as many goals in his past two seasons combined as he did in the season before that contract got inked. Vladar was talked about as a waiver option earlier this year, but ultimately determined that he wouldn’t be claimed so they’d be stuck paying him in the minors.

All four of these players would clear waivers right now. None are worth their full salary. They’re all ‘negative value’ and are only moveable assets in deals that would either bring back some negative value in return or with retention.

If you want to argue that one side of the proposed deal is more negative or the timing of the bad money doesn’t align, that’s fine. But pretending the Calgary players have positive value is not accurate. They do not. This is ‘exchange of bad contracts and hope someone benefits from change of scenery’ territory for all proposed.

 

[HighLifeMan]

This does absolutely nothing for Calgary. Not only does it make them both older and worse overall, but they also add term. What a homerun for them.

 

[crazyfisherman]

So calgary gets a worse older player whose contract is a year longer for no reason huh, seems likes a good trade lol.

 

[blankall]

I think to most onlookers, all four of Pageau, Forsberg, Vladar, and Mangiapane are on negative contracts.

Mangiapane is a 5.8 million dollar player coming off consecutive sub-20-goal seasons. He hasn’t scored as many goals in his past two seasons combined as he did in the season before that contract got inked. Vladar was talked about as a waiver option earlier this year, but ultimately determined that he wouldn’t be claimed so they’d be stuck paying him in the minors.

All four of these players would clear waivers right now. None are worth their full salary. They’re all ‘negative value’ and are only moveable assets in deals that would either bring back some negative value in return or with retention.

If you want to argue that one side of the proposed deal is more negative or the timing of the bad money doesn’t align, that’s fine. But pretending the Calgary players have positive value is not accurate. They do not. This is ‘exchange of bad contracts and hope someone benefits from change of scenery’ territory for all proposed.

No.

Mangiapane is an upcoming UFA. He can be traded at the deadline, this year. Even if doesn't improve this year, he'll have some interest.

Vladar could be an option for some teams. Even if he's not, the Flames just ride his contract out.

Pageau, who's worse than Mangiapane, with an extra year, is the only one with truly negative value. It'll cost at least a 1st for someone to take him on.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Yes to both from me (a Sens fan), but I question what the incentive is for Calgary. I'd be fine keeping Pageau as well, so it doesn't really matter much.

FWIW Poluck is from Manitoba. It's not inconceivable that he may waive his NTC to be the 1RD in a city like Ottawa.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Yes to both from me (a Sens fan), but I question what the incentive is for Calgary. I'd be fine keeping Pageau as well, so it doesn't really matter much.

FWIW Poluck is from Manitoba. It's not inconceivable that he may waive his NTC to be the 1RD in a city like Ottawa.

Pardon my New Yorker knowledge of Canadian geography, but isn’t Ottawa like… very very far from Manitoba? Isn’t that like saying Adam Fox is from Long Island so he may waive to play for the Predators?

Either way, isles might say yes although we’re fairly sturdy on the left side already. Lou loves his captains. Pulock might say no as other posters have alluded to.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Pardon my New Yorker knowledge of Canadian geography, but isn’t Ottawa like… very very far from Manitoba? Isn’t that like saying Adam Fox is from Long Island so he may waive to play for the Predators?

Either way, isles might say yes although we’re fairly sturdy on the left side already. Lou loves his captains. Pulock might say no as other posters have alluded to.

They are very far apart, but it's no different than assuming players like good weather, and would like LA or Florida.

Manitoba being in Canada probably gets past the 'no Canada's hurdle, which is often the biggest issue with NTCs.

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

Pardon my New Yorker knowledge of Canadian geography, but isn’t Ottawa like… very very far from Manitoba? Isn’t that like saying Adam Fox is from Long Island so he may waive to play for the Predators?

Either way, isles might say yes although we’re fairly sturdy on the left side already. Lou loves his captains. Pulock might say no as other posters have alluded to.

It's about the same distance as NY to Minneapolis. Even thought Manitoba and Ontario and neighboring provinces, there's just so much landed that it ends up being decently far away.