OT: Other sports thread: Your World Series Champion Doyers!, Angels, Rams, Lakers, Bruins, Trojans, Capybaras

[Herby]

I actually stopped watching baseball because of this. I love the premier league, but one of the turnoffs is that some teams will just buy whoever they want. FFP has helped that a bit, but it's the usually suspects at the top.

Baseball is turning into buy your championship. The Dodgers are successful, but to me compared to expectations they are somewhat of a failure. When you spend that much money and put together those types of rosters, winning the championships is an expectation. They've won one recently despite outspending other teams drastically. Now they have a guy whose yearly salary is more than other teams entire payrolls.

They've priced a lot of people out, unless you want to watch a team get pounded every night. Engagement is still down historically and the absence of an even playing ground is one of the reasons. The NBA has surpassed them in viewership and it's showing no signs of slowing. And I'm saying this as someone who grew up in the LA area.

That is exactly what MLB is now, it's EPL (or name your favorite European soccer league). It's wild how much of the top talent is concentrated in a couple of places.

The one saving grace is, much like hockey the days of guys taking years and years to develop are largely gone and the small market teams are able to at least have arbitration control for awhile. But a lot of times those teams end up moving those guys to larger market teams, and many times for undrafted international prospects who were signed by the big spending teams, and round and round we go. It would be like if before the NHL had a salary cap that the Rangers and Red Wings were able to spend more than anyone else **and** be able to spend more on academies in Sweden and Russia.

It's just a terrible system.

 

[bouncesonly]

lol

 

[Bandit]

lol

Poor guy ONLY clearing 33 million a year. Oh and:

$25.9 Federal tax
$4.65 California tax

bUt cALIfornIA TAxeS hURr duRR!!!

 

[kingsholygrail]

Isn't his deal backloaded?

Ohtani is going to defer 68/70mil a year until 2034. The Dodgers will pay him 2mil/year for the next ten years, then the rest for ten years after that with no interest. Apparently Ohtani wants the Dodgers to be able to acquire more talent in the meantime. That's insane.

 

[tny760]

that's kinda... gross

like i get that it's very clearly outlined as OK by the CBA but it just feels grimy. suppose i just wasn't expecting this extreme of an example

 

[Bandit]

Isn't his deal backloaded?

Ohtani is going to defer 68/70mil a year until 2034. The Dodgers will pay him 2mil/year for the next ten years, then the rest for ten years after that with no interest. Apparently Ohtani wants the Dodgers to be able to acquire more talent in the meantime. That's insane.

Wait this is a 20 year deal? Dafuq???

 

[Schrute farms]

i think the deferral will change the total $700M due to the time discount. They will recalculate it to come up with a total value. It's not like his salary cap hit is only $2M next year. Assuming it's $2M now and $68 deferred for 10 years for each of the 10 years. So it would be this for cap hit:

$2M + whatever today's value is for $68M received in 10 year.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Wait this is a 20 year deal? Dafuq???

Effectively, yes, but technically no. Apparently he made this offer to each team he spoke to, too. It wasn't Dodger exclusive.

 

[fivehole32]

If the money is deferred for ten years, Shohei will likely have moved on to a more income tax friendly state by then. Or start a non-profit where everyone on the board is a relative, donate the bulk of his money to the non-profit get a tax break and get paid like every other high paid, high profile celebrity/sports star does.

 

[johnjm22]

There might be Japanese taxes as well.

A lot of countries tax worldwide income on their citizens. I think Japan does as well.

If the money is deferred for ten years, Shohei will likely have moved on to a more income tax friendly state by then. Or start a non-profit where everyone on the board is a relative, donate the bulk of his money to the non-profit get a tax break and get paid like every other high paid, high profile celebrity/sports star does.

Do you have an example of this?

 

[kingsfan28]

Arte right now is trying to explain to the fans [ and Trout] that with the money he's saving not signing Ohtani he can now upgrade the team. and that not trading him was a good baseball decision.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

There might be Japanese taxes as well.

A lot of countries tax worldwide income on their citizens. I think Japan does as well.

Do you have an example of this?

Similar idea:

As Wreaths Across America has grown, so has scrutiny about its practices

The Washington County nonprofit paid $10.3 million last year to its supplier, Worcester Wreath Co.; both entities are run by the same family.

www.pressherald.com

So-called “non-profit” claims its Xmas wreaths aren’t Xmas wreaths – but sells them as Xmas wreaths

The Worcester Wreath Co. of Columbia Falls, Maine, referring to its supplying of the Christmas wreaths placed on every veterans’ graves in thousands of cemeteries across the country each year, including 145 of the 155 national cemeteries, by the...

www.dailykos.com

So, how much money are we talking about here? Well, according to their latest available tax return, the Worcester’s non-profit Wreaths Across America took in nearly $25 million in donations in 2019 and then paid nearly $17 million of that to their for-profit wreath company to produce the wreaths.

 

[fivehole32]

There might be Japanese taxes as well.

A lot of countries tax worldwide income on their citizens. I think Japan does as well.

Do you have an example of this?

I'm not a tax attorney, however it makes the most sense to do this. Most of the high profile athletes have foundations for causes. Kurt Warner has Treasure House for down syndrome people, Patrick Mahomes has 15 and Mahomies where he donates money through this organization to other non-profits. Troy Aikman has Aikman Enterprises where he donates money through his non-profit to other non-profits.

I don't know for certain, but I'm sure they have relatives or friends who work at these organizations, and they most certainly have a seat on the board so they can write off most of their dining and travel expenses.

The most high profile non sports one of these organizations is Patagonia clothing giving the company to the environment.

Patagonia founder's big donation potentially saves him over $1 billion in taxes — and experts say it shows how the wealthy are able to 'entirely opt out of taxes'

When it comes to why the billionaire founder isn't paying much in taxes, "there's a simple legal answer — because he does not need to," one expert said.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[kingsholygrail]

I'm not a tax attorney, however it makes the most sense to do this. Most of the high profile athletes have foundations for causes. Kurt Warner has Treasure House for down syndrome people, Patrick Mahomes has 15 and Mahomies where he donates money through this organization to other non-profits. Troy Aikman has Aikman Enterprises where he donates money through his non-profit to other non-profits.

I don't know for certain, but I'm sure they have relatives or friends who work at these organizations, and they most certainly have a seat on the board so they can write off most of their dining and travel expenses.

The most high profile non sports one of these organizations is Patagonia clothing giving the company to the environment.

Patagonia founder's big donation potentially saves him over $1 billion in taxes — and experts say it shows how the wealthy are able to 'entirely opt out of taxes'

When it comes to why the billionaire founder isn't paying much in taxes, "there's a simple legal answer — because he does not need to," one expert said.

www.businessinsider.com

Philanthropy has a cap, though, as far as taxes go iirc.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

that's kinda... gross

like i get that it's very clearly outlined as OK by the CBA but it just feels grimy. suppose i just wasn't expecting this extreme of an example

The NHLPA just shit its pants and started furiously drafting the next CBA

JK they've already addressed this obviously

I don't see the concern though, it's a very special player and a very special circumstance, I like that the league/pa allows for that because you're not going to do this for every common dude. That it took the Dodgers this long to do it is very telling

Arte right now is trying to explain to the fans [ and Trout] that with the money he's saving not signing Ohtani he can now upgrade the team. and that not trading him was a good baseball decision.

Yeah this just made Arte look like even more of a miser, especially given it wasn't an LA-exclusive offer

 

[redcard]

I'm not a tax attorney, however it makes the most sense to do this. Most of the high profile athletes have foundations for causes. Kurt Warner has Treasure House for down syndrome people, Patrick Mahomes has 15 and Mahomies where he donates money through this organization to other non-profits. Troy Aikman has Aikman Enterprises where he donates money through his non-profit to other non-profits.

I don't know for certain, but I'm sure they have relatives or friends who work at these organizations, and they most certainly have a seat on the board so they can write off most of their dining and travel expenses.

The most high profile non sports one of these organizations is Patagonia clothing giving the company to the environment.

Patagonia founder's big donation potentially saves him over $1 billion in taxes — and experts say it shows how the wealthy are able to 'entirely opt out of taxes'

When it comes to why the billionaire founder isn't paying much in taxes, "there's a simple legal answer — because he does not need to," one expert said.

www.businessinsider.com

There are certainly advantages here and ways to game the system but at the end of the day these athletes are still giving this money away and not getting it back while only saving on the taxes they would have paid on the money they gave away. The main benefit of an athlete starting a foundation is that they can take the deduction while their income is high but allow them to continue their philanthropy indefinitely.

For example, if an athlete makes $10 mil a year for 10 years, and wants to donate 10% of their income and start a permanent foundation with a lasting legacy, they can put $1 mil a year into the foundation and take the tax deduction the year the money was earned. This would reduce their taxable income and save them somewhere around $500k in taxes each year (but remember they're paying $1 mil to save $500K...still a net loss of $500K). If that foundation invests the donation and uses the interest earned for philanthropic purposes, after 10 years its going to have a $10 mil investment account. If that money earns 5% a year, the foundation can donate $500k a year to charitable causes until the end of time without ever needing additional funding. So an athlete can either donate $1 mil a year to (for example) the red cross for 10 years, or they can start their own foundation with their name on it that donates $500K to the red cross for centuries. In both cases the tax benefits to the athlete are exactly the same.

But to your point, they could certainly have friends on the foundation payroll and thereby reduce the amount of the "donation" that is actually being donated. But any salary paid to these friends is going to be taxed as income (albeit at the friend's tax bracket, not the athletes). They could potentially expense travel and meals to the foundation as well, but there's high audit risk and with dollar values this high those expenses would be pretty negligible.

The bottom line is that even with these advantages, when an athlete donates money to a foundation, even one they control, they end up with less money in their bank account than if they had just kept it and paid the tax.

 

[johnjm22]

There's really almost no way to get around taxes on income or realized gains legally.

I don't see how either of the examples that have been brought up show otherwise. Although the wreath thing admittedly seems a bit sleezy.

If you donate money or other assets, regardless of whether it's to a foundation you started or not, you still don't have that money anymore and you didn't realize a gain on the asset. Thus no taxable event has occurred. The donator has less money / wealth overall.

Anyone working a paid job for a non-profit is paying taxes on the income they receive.

There might also be ways to amortize your tax lability by paying your self through a business entity, but this is perfectly fair for someone like an athlete who will be earning most of their life's income in a short time span.

"The Rich Don't Pay Taxes" is a false doomer narrative. Often left-wing journalists will conflate income, wealth, and unrealized capital gains to mislead the public. Negatively always gets clicks.

 

[johnjm22]

I don't know. A lot of people want the NHL to do this. Seems kind of lame IMO.

 

[ru4reals]

I don't know. A lot of people want the NHL to do this. Seems kind of lame IMO.

Dumbest thing in sports. Lakers may not even make the playoffs. Lol.

 

[Herby]

I don't know. A lot of people want the NHL to do this. Seems kind of lame IMO.

I feel like Jerry Buss is rolling over in his grave with them hanging that ridiculous banner.

I think it's even worse than the Colts "AFC Finalist" banner and the Sharks "Western Conference Regular Season Champions"

 

[johnjm22]

The banner wouldn't look as bad if the NBA would get more creative with its names.

"The NBA Championship"
"The In Season Tournament"

Call it something interesting. Make it sound like it has some prestige.

From a business stand point, I think the tournament kind of makes sense. There's so many regular season games of little consequence, this is a way to add some stakes to games that otherwise wouldn't have any.

 

[bland]

I don't know. A lot of people want the NHL to do this. Seems kind of lame IMO.

I think the Canadian teams need it. Lets them fight over something that the rest of the league couldn't care less about.

The all-Canadian playoffs in Covid were fun for them. It serves the same purpose as the League and FA Cups in England and various others throughout Europe: teams with no realistic chance at the Cup get to compete for another honor.

You don't even need to play additional games, just adjust the schedule so they all play the same amount of home and road games against each other and give the points winner a trophy. No sweat.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I don't know. A lot of people want the NHL to do this. Seems kind of lame IMO.

This is something I can see the Clippers doing because they have nothing. The Lakers win real championships. This is a joke.

 

[kingsfan28]

Are the Rams really going to blow a 20 point lead with 4:30 to go? Blocked punt, two plays later it's now a 8 point lead.

 

[kingpest19]

And the Dodgers sign Yamamoto to a 12 year $325M deal