OT: Other Sports: Broncos, Nuggets, Rockies etc…Part VII

[5280]

Manziel was way too concerned with being a celebrity too and put in next to zero work at being a pro. In college he got by off pure talent, that doesn't work in the pros.

IMO if Williams fails, it will be the mental/off the field side of the equation. He has all the tools. Yeah you'd wish he was 6'3" instead of 6'1"... but that's really the only physical knock on him.

Hell Bryce Young looks like a bust now, too. Good guy who came from a good system whose talent just didn’t transfer to the pros.

What a trade that was.

 

[Avs_19]

I think JJ McCarthy will end up being the best of the bunch. A lot of raw talent with his arm and athletic ability in addition to the intangibles. Also gets to join the best coach and offensive play caller of the rookie group in addition to the best group of skill position players and offensive tackles.

Yes, I am a Vikings fan. Not sure why you're asking.

 

[CharlesPuck]

I think JJ McCarthy will end up being the best of the bunch. A lot of raw talent with his arm and athletic ability in addition to the intangibles. Also gets to join the best coach and offensive play caller of the rookie group in addition to the best group of skill position players and offensive tackles.

Yes, I am a Vikings fan. Not sure why you're asking.

His injury may be a great benefit for him in the long run. Nix shouldn’t be starting. Williams shouldn’t be starting.

These rookie QBs need to learn before being the main man for a team.

 

[Avs_19]

His injury may be a great benefit for him in the long run. Nix shouldn’t be starting. Williams shouldn’t be starting.

These rookie QBs need to learn before being the main man for a team.

Yeah, I agree. The comment about him being the best was tongue in cheek and just bias but I do think he'll benefit as you mentioned assuming there's no health issues. They seem to have a good plan for him and can be very patient with it.

 

[henchman21]

Hell Bryce Young looks like a bust now, too. Good guy who came from a good system whose talent just didn’t transfer to the pros.

What a trade that was.

Bryce Young has two major issues... he's very short and he doesn't have a great arm. The NFL has shown less reliance on tall QBs over recent years, but 5'10" is incredibly short by NFL standards at the position. Him not being at least 6' or 6'2" means he can't read the defense as well, and with more exotic schemes in the NFL... he's frequently confused. Even if he gets some of the presnap reads correct, the NFL DCs are experts at disguising coverages and it being different at the snap. This also kinda plays into his other issue with his arm strength. He just doesn't have a strong arm. It is okay, but a far cry from the Josh Allen's of the world. Young has to move and evade a bit more to know where to go with the ball because of his stature, and his arm is not strong enough to deal with the footwork issues this causes. If his feet are not set, he can't really fire the ball like Mahomes can. His footwork has to be set to get any real zip. That actually isn't dissimilar to Nix. When Nix's footwork breaks down, he loses a ton of his power and accuracy.

Carolina has major ownership issues with a meddling guy that dictates moves.

I 100% understand the Broncos taking Nix and throwing another dart at the board. In the NFL you really need a QB to have a chance and you just have to keep churning until you hit. The position is also just filled with busts over the years. Teams will probably draft 3-5 guys high before they hit on one. At top 5 pick on a QB still has an incredibly high bust rate. It is just the nature of the position in the NFL. Arguably, teams should be pretty quick to pull the ripcord too. Each year you don't get a guy is going to lead to another wasted year. They should play him to see if flashes start happening... but if they don't they should be quick to look at a guy in the 25 draft.

 

[5280]

Bryce Young has two major issues... he's very short and he doesn't have a great arm. The NFL has shown less reliance on tall QBs over recent years, but 5'10" is incredibly short by NFL standards at the position. Him not being at least 6' or 6'2" means he can't read the defense as well, and with more exotic schemes in the NFL... he's frequently confused. Even if he gets some of the presnap reads correct, the NFL DCs are experts at disguising coverages and it being different at the snap. This also kinda plays into his other issue with his arm strength. He just doesn't have a strong arm. It is okay, but a far cry from the Josh Allen's of the world. Young has to move and evade a bit more to know where to go with the ball because of his stature, and his arm is not strong enough to deal with the footwork issues this causes. If his feet are not set, he can't really fire the ball like Mahomes can. His footwork has to be set to get any real zip. That actually isn't dissimilar to Nix. When Nix's footwork breaks down, he loses a ton of his power and accuracy.

Carolina has major ownership issues with a meddling guy that dictates moves.

I 100% understand the Broncos taking Nix and throwing another dart at the board. In the NFL you really need a QB to have a chance and you just have to keep churning until you hit. The position is also just filled with busts over the years. Teams will probably draft 3-5 guys high before they hit on one. At top 5 pick on a QB still has an incredibly high bust rate. It is just the nature of the position in the NFL. Arguably, teams should be pretty quick to pull the ripcord too. Each year you don't get a guy is going to lead to another wasted year. They should play him to see if flashes start happening... but if they don't they should be quick to look at a guy in the 25 draft.

Makes sense. Yeah North Carolina hates David Tepper. He might be the the worst owner in sports

 

[Pokecheque]

Makes sense. Yeah North Carolina hates David Tepper. He might be the the worst owner in sports

The fact that he took over for the lecherous, racist owner they had before and somehow managed to look like an even bigger jerk in just a few years really says something. Not to mention there's video of him throwing his drink at fans and I thought I read somewhere that he actually stopped at a bar to confront the owners over a sign that read SELL THE TEAM.

 

[5280]

The fact that he took over for the lecherous, racist owner they had before and somehow managed to look like an even bigger jerk in just a few years really says something. Not to mention there's video of him throwing his drink at fans and I thought I read somewhere that he actually stopped at a bar to confront the owners over a sign that read SELL THE TEAM.

Yeah, he’s bad. Well at least a bad owner. I don’t know about his personal life. You’re right, the guy he bought the team from was a giant POS, too. Things aren’t good in Panther-land. Good thing I’m a Broncos fan TIC

 

[Bonzai12]

gimme some of that arm talent

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835523734918086923

 

[StreetHawk]

Makes sense. Yeah North Carolina hates David Tepper. He might be the the worst owner in sports

Tepper does suck. But Young had nothing to fall back on if the play doesn’t go according to plan. No speed. Can’t escape pressure like Kyler or Russ (in his prime). No arm. Hasn’t shown the accuracy that some said he could hang his hat on.

A D. Smith, Welker, Edelman, Renfrow sized receiver without quickness and/or strong route running isn’t going to make it. Smaller guys can play but need to do something very well.

Nix compared to young at least has some size and more mobility.

 

[Bonzai12]

welp……college sports was fun while it lasted.

Tennessee adding talent fee to ticket prices to help pay players

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Tennessee has announced a price hike for football tickets starting in 2025 with most of the increase going specifically to help pay players.The increase announced Tuesday morning in an email to season-ticket holders notes a new 10% talent fee for all invoices to “help...

thescore.com

 

[lionsDen]

This thread is kinda funny. You have a few people who just couldn't wait to dump all over Bo Nix even after his first NFL game just so they can get on their horse to say "see, I was right all along".

It's almost as if that IF Nix isn't a generational talent - he needs to get the f*** out of here??

Speaking of 'generational talent' - Caleb Williams is finding out playing in the NFL isn't easy. He's on a crap team too albeit with WAYYYYYY better weapons (Odunze, Moore, Cmet)... what's his excuse? Bad arm? Bad feet? Bad Brain?

Not sure why it's apparently a slam-dunk that Nix is going to bust after 2 games when there are specific examples throughout the league of QBs that were given up on by their original teams only to find success playing with GOOD teams. Baker Mayfield got the hell out of Cleveland and now seems to be doing very well. He may not a generational player but he's giving his team a chance to win. Sam Darnold was a big, big shithead apparently and now he's 2-0 playing on a GOOD TEAM. (hmmm maybe that's not a coincidence)

This whole discussion about who played well in their first few games vs who didn't is ridiculous. Way too many other questions need to be answered before you can just say 'yeah - see THIS guy was way better and able to do it'. What kind of run game was that team able to put on the field to give their rookie QB a better chance at success? How was the offensive line - good or terrible? What kind of weapons did that QB have to be able to move the ball down the field? Those are all actual factors that play a part in having a rookie QB be able to be successful. Some of it is certainly on the QB but NOT ALL OF IT as some people here would love to be able to make it seem.

@famicommander - it's very apparent to EVERYONE here that you had your torch and pitchfork ready the very second after the Broncos made the draft pick - and since you're absolutely unwilling to listen to anything anyone has to say - future discussion with you is pointless.

Personally, I'm more disappointed with the head coach than I am Bo Nix.

I didn’t watch him in college. I have no bias either way. I’ve tried to point out the flaws I have seen so far and why I think he’ll flunk out. The book is not written but from reading the back of the book it doesn’t look enticing. There are structural flaws that I don’t think he’ll get fixed. Speaking of people of people “who just couldn’t wait, your post is just as invalid as anyone elses

 

[The Abusement Park]

gimme some of that arm talent

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835523734918086923

I know Williams keeps getting brought up along Nix’s struggles but I just don’t really see why they should be compared. They’ve both sucked 100%, but they’re just so different and suck right now for different reasons. We’ll see if Caleb will learn and adjust to the NFL because he’s trying to do his scrambling/Mahomes shit that he could do in college, but chances are he won’t be able to do that in the NFL. And his accuracy is clearly a problem right now, but his arm talent is clearly in a different stratosphere from Nix.

 

[JWK]

Being 1 of 3 teams to have the best odds to get Ethan Holliday
Doyle and Tovar becoming stars, Toglia turning into Gallo,
Dollander turning into one of the best pitching prospects in the league
Peralta, Hill, Halvorsen, Chivilli, Vodnik, and Criswell throwing high 90s and dominating with Agnos(and his amazing stache) coming soon.

Very successful year other than Nolan Jones and Mike Honcho struggling. Only thing that would make this season better is losing 100 games again

 

[CharlesPuck]

Being 1 of 3 teams to have the best odds to get Ethan Holliday
Doyle and Tovar becoming stars, Toglia turning into Gallo,
Dollander turning into one of the best pitching prospects in the league
Peralta, Hill, Halvorsen, Chivilli, Vodnik, and Criswell throwing high 90s and dominating with Agnos(and his amazing stache) coming soon.

Very successful year other than Nolan Jones and Mike Honcho struggling. Only thing that would make this season better is losing 100 games again

You know they are gonna get stuck on 99

 

[JWK]

You know they are gonna get stuck on 99

6 games with the Dodgers left, that's 0-6 and 99 losses right there. Then need to drop 1 of 4 against Arizona/St.Louis, very doable.

 

[CharlesPuck]

6 games with the Dodgers left, that's 0-6 and 99 losses right there. Then need to drop 1 of 4 against Arizona/St.Louis, very doable.

Rox are the hottest team in the NL West. I wouldn't give them 6 losses to the Dodgers so fast

 

[Bender]

I didn’t watch him in college. I have no bias either way. I’ve tried to point out the flaws I have seen so far and why I think he’ll flunk out. The book is not written but from reading the back of the book it doesn’t look enticing. There are structural flaws that I don’t think he’ll get fixed. Speaking of people of people “who just couldn’t wait, your post is just as invalid as anyone elses

Great post!

So essentially I suggest that the people who are saying it's 100% definite that Bo Nix is already a bust - are probably premature in saying so and you counter that because my view isn't 100% in-line with the fact that I don't agree with your amazing analysis that he sucks - my post in invalid.
Bravo!

For a hockey forum, we sure have quite a few unbelievable experts on football and more precisely the QB position.

 

[Bonzai12]

For a hockey forum, we sure have quite a few unbelievable experts on football and more precisely the QB position.

It’s really easy actually - in football you just talk about ‘arm talent’ a lot. In hockey it’s just ‘puck poise’. The more you throw those words into any sentences describing players, the smarter you sound.

 

[famicommander]

It’s really easy actually - in football you just talk about ‘arm talent’ a lot. In hockey it’s just ‘puck poise’. The more you throw those words into any sentences describing players, the smarter you sound.

Or you point out how he was 193rd among college QBs last year in average depth of target. One third of his pass attempts were at or behind the line of scrimmage. He was a YAC merchant who thrived on targeting mismatches between his skill position guys and slow defenders. He struggled consistently against talented defenses throughout his college career, and there are no slow defenses in the NFL.

Or you point out how his completion percentage so far this season drops drastically with each 5 yard increment
Behind line-of-scrimmage: 13/13 (100%)
0-5 yards: 20/22 (91%)
5-10 yards: 8/18 (44%)
10+ yards: 5/24 (21%)

Or you point out how our starting running back has faced a stacked box on 58% of his rushing attempts this year. That's the highest percentage of any player in the NFL, and the player who has faced a stacked box the second highest percentage of the time has only seen it about 40% of the time.

NFL defenses don't believe we can beat them downfield consistently. And so far they have been correct.

Arm talent is not some vaguely defined weasel term. It's the ability to make all the throws on the field consistently. It's the ability to deliver tight, catchable spirals on time and on target even in crappy situations (poor weather, when you're being rushed, when you're off balance or on the move, etc) anywhere on your route tree. Short, intermediate, long, either sideline from either hash. Bo Nix has poor arm talent. That is why he played the style he played in college, that is why he was the sixth quarterback drafted.

 

[Bender]

It’s really easy actually - in football you just talk about ‘arm talent’ a lot. In hockey it’s just ‘puck poise’. The more you throw those words into any sentences describing players, the smarter you sound.

So who would be the Martin Skoula of quarterbacks?

 

[Bonzai12]

So who would be the Martin Skoula of quarterbacks?

Joe Milton. QB New England Patriots. Can throw it maybe 100 yards. Amazing arm talent but barely can make an NFL roster.

NHL Comparables -

 

[lionsDen]

Great post!

So essentially I suggest that the people who are saying it's 100% definite that Bo Nix is already a bust - are probably premature in saying so and you counter that because my view isn't 100% in-line with the fact that I don't agree with your amazing analysis that he sucks - my post in invalid.
Bravo!

For a hockey forum, we sure have quite a few unbelievable experts on football and more precisely the QB position.

I bet you’re one of those guys that ran out and spent money on a Russel Wilson jersey and you were ready to ride.


I’m willing to place a wager, you game.

 

[lionsDen]

It’s really easy actually - in football you just talk about ‘arm talent’ a lot. In hockey it’s just ‘puck poise’. The more you throw those words into any sentences describing players, the smarter you sound.

I mean have you had your eyes closed the last two games every time Bo nix passes it’s an adventure. Arm talent is what qbs do. Reading defensesz processing and arm talents are 98% of what elite qbs have

 

[Bonzai12]

Reading defensesz processing and arm talents are 98% of what elite qbs have

Two out of the three things ya mention there are smarts. The kid won the Campbell trophy for being one of the smartest football players out there. But I don’t for one second believe Campbell trophy = NFL QB. Nor do I believe ‘arm talent’ or hand size makes a great one (or any other stupid scouting buzz term). It’s a culmination of smarts/athleticism/work/coaching and more. It typically takes 1/2 to 1 year to figure out if a kid has got ‘it’ or not. This kid has played maybe 1 hr of NFL offensive snaps and people are ready to cut him - that’s f’ing insane. I don’t know that he’s gonna pan out but if he doesn’t then the 2025 QB class sucks and we’re lookin at another retread UFA or doling out a crap ton of assets/picks again a la Russel Wilson style. I’d rather have some faith in this kid and hope he makes it. Call me crazy - I don’t care. I want the Broncos to be good. I want this guy to succeed.