OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2

[542365]

I want Victor Scott to get on base at a reasonable clip because I love watching him run the bases and play defense. Just an average OBP and he’s insanely valuable player.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Good start for Gray

 

[542365]

Sad I missed Gray’s debut but looks like he did well. Did see Romero pitch. Really like him. Got that bit of nut job in him that many great relievers have.

EDIT:And Helsley’s slider is disgusting.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Sad I missed Gray’s debut but looks like he did well. Did see Romero pitch. Really like him. Got that bit of nut job in him that many great relievers have.

EDIT:And Helsley’s slider is disgusting.

I don’t claim to watch a ton of games, but almost every time I do Romero comes in and he almost always is very solid.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

They need to send Scott down. It's clearly gotten to the point where he's overwhelmed and needs a lower pressure setting. Who turns the wrong way on a single anymore, I mean come on.

Walker has been brutal this year. Simply horrible. It's like he got swoll at the gym this winter and then decided he was going to hit 70 home runs. He's pulling off on everything and he's in front of everything so he hits the ball into the ground all the time. We need to rebuild his swing mechanics.

Our offense is Donovan, Contreras, and Herrera right now. It's been brutal to watch these first couple of weeks.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

RIP Herzog

 

[Celtic Note]

I just saw an article that said there is an expectation that DeWitt will ask for tax payers to fund stadium updates. Any truth to that? If so, I hope the citizens tell him to go fly a kite.

 

[Spear]

I just saw an article that said there is an expectation that DeWitt will ask for tax payers to fund stadium updates. Any truth to that? If so, I hope the citizens tell him to go fly a kite.

Can you provide a link?

Edit: I found 1 article and yes, I'd be in the group to tell him to pound sand!

 

[TheDizee]

well we are about 20 games in and they are basically .500

who would have thought

 

[Celtic Note]

Can you provide a link?

Edit: I found 1 article and yes, I'd be in the group to tell him to pound sand!

I think it was Fansided, so I question its legitimacy. Thus asking if others saw anything. I can’t seem to find anything now as my feed updated.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

well we are about 20 games in and they are basically .500

who would have thought

Floating around .500 isn't quite the 100 loss season you were predicting though

 

[TheDizee]

Floating around .500 isn't quite the 100 loss season you were predicting though

give them time. once they dump goldy and arenado, then the real pain comes.

 

[Eldon Reid]

As Cardinals Plan to Seek More Public Money for Busch Stadium, Experts Balk

Good ole Cardinals wanting public money to make upgrades.....

 

[Spear]

This is the part in article referenced above:

For the positive momentum to continue, DeWitt III says Busch Stadium will need a “significant capital infusion” in two to five years. It’s “too early” to detail what the improvements would look like, he says. “Our goal would be to handle whatever back of the house things need to happen and to fix [them], as well as probably create some cool and interesting new features for fans.”

The owners would likely seek public money for that, he adds.

When asked how much such a project would cost, DeWitt III says it would likely be in a similar range to recent Milwaukee Brewers and Baltimore Orioles projects. Those are $500 million and $600 million taxpayer investments, respectively.

 

[The Note]

The stadium is, what, 18 years old? How much could really need to be done? Maybe dip into the ballpark village coffers, Bill. Nothing new but all these franchise owners are ghouls.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

As Cardinals Plan to Seek More Public Money for Busch Stadium, Experts Balk

Good ole Cardinals wanting public money to make upgrades.....

I will always vote no on public funding for a stadium, but I will doubly make sure I don’t miss this one. I sure as shit am not giving more money to this ownership group.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Cardinals just announced their City Connect jerseys are being announced next month. I’m nervous lol

 

[BrokenFace]

I will always vote no on public funding for a stadium, but I will doubly make sure I don’t miss this one. I sure as shit am not giving more money to this ownership group.

If cities pay for part of the cost of building and especially maintaining a stadium, then cities should get a portion of the profits from the teams that play there.

Alternatively, tell DeWitt the city will cover more of the cost based on the Cardinal's winning percentage the next couple of years, and watch them finally do something meaningful in free agency.

 

[Majorityof1]

If cities pay for part of the cost of building and especially maintaining a stadium, then cities should get a portion of the profits from the teams that play there.

Alternatively, tell DeWitt the city will cover more of the cost based on the Cardinal's winning percentage the next couple of years, and watch them finally do something meaningful in free agency.

No, they shouldn't. Local and state governments give tax breaks and incentives all the time to a wide variety of businesses. The governments get that money back in increased employment for its residents (more state and local taxes).

In the case of an event space like the stadium, the municipality gets increased business and traffic to other businesses in the area, which in turn increases the number of jobs and tax basis. This is economic development 101. You cannot compete for businesses to locate in your area if you do not provide incentives (its been my job to negotiate these things on both sides).

 

[BrokenFace]

No, they shouldn't. Local and state governments give tax breaks and incentives all the time to a wide variety of businesses. The governments get that money back in increased employment for its residents (more state and local taxes).

In the case of an event space like the stadium, the municipality gets increased business and traffic to other businesses in the area, which in turn increases the number of jobs and tax basis. This is economic development 101. You cannot compete for businesses to locate in your area if you do not provide incentives (its been my job to negotiate these things on both sides).

I'm just venting. I know these issues are far more complicated. However, the economic boost the Cardinals said would come to the area when the new stadium opened seems to be so overstated that the city should more seriously scrutinize a potential request for more public funds.

 

[Majorityof1]

I'm just venting. I know these issues are far more complicated. However, the economic boost the Cardinals said would come to the area when the new stadium opened seems to be so overstated that the city should more seriously scrutinize a potential request for more public funds.

Understandable. They should be clawback provisions on incentives if they don't meet their goal. Further, there would probably be increased promises if the requested funds were not part of the original agreement. Those promises obviously wouldn't tie to winning percentage but could be tied to monthly attendance.

If there are newly allocated funds allocated beyond any initial agreement, it would most likely require a public hearing as well depending on local laws and wording of the initial resolutions.

 

[Xerloris]

I worked on the Stadium when it was being built. It would be crazy to go back and renovate it after what only feels like a couple years.

 

[Celtic Note]

Understandable. They should be clawback provisions on incentives if they don't meet their goal. Further, there would probably be increased promises if the requested funds were not part of the original agreement. Those promises obviously wouldn't tie to winning percentage but could be tied to monthly attendance.

If there are newly allocated funds allocated beyond any initial agreement, it would most likely require a public hearing as well depending on local laws and wording of the initial resolutions.

Well there were provisions like that for ballpark village and apparently the Cards didnt pay. It’s been a while since I followed along so maybe the did end up doing so, but last time i heard anything many years ago, they had not.

No, they shouldn't. Local and state governments give tax breaks and incentives all the time to a wide variety of businesses. The governments get that money back in increased employment for its residents (more state and local taxes).

In the case of an event space like the stadium, the municipality gets increased business and traffic to other businesses in the area, which in turn increases the number of jobs and tax basis. This is economic development 101. You cannot compete for businesses to locate in your area if you do not provide incentives (its been my job to negotiate these things on both sides).

There are a growing number of studies that show the public subsidies used to finance stadiums have a bad ROI. The areas around them may be a of benefit. But the stadiums, especially football do not according to the research or so I hear.

 

[joe galiba]

Well there were provisions like that for ballpark village and apparently the Cards didnt pay. It’s been a while since I followed along so maybe the did end up doing so, but last time i heard anything many years ago, they had not.


There are a growing number of studies that show the public subsidies used to finance stadiums have a bad ROI. The areas around them may be a of benefit. But the stadiums, especially football do not according to the research or so I hear.

it winds up moving money from one entity to another, so no net gain or loss, such as ballpark village making money hand over fist and other, older bars and restaurants losing profit or going out of business

 

[Majorityof1]

There are a growing number of studies that show the public subsidies used to finance stadiums have a bad ROI. The areas around them may be a of benefit. But the stadiums, especially football do not according to the research or so I hear.

I am not an expert on event space subsidies or incentivess. Most of my work was in rural communities, and I've since shifted to workforce development/talent attraction (I get bored easily and switch career tracks) So take this with a big grain of salt.

A lot of the studies I've read ignore or underplay the intangible benefits of these deals. Having a sporting team makes you a "real" city. That in turn attracts residents and businesses. The economic effect of that cannot be quantified easily.

Also like everything in business, it's a negotiation. There are winners and losers. The winners generally have the better representation , which billionaire sport team owners can more easily afford. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do any deal, just better deals.