Oshawa Generals 2024-25 Season Thread, Part 1

[OMG67]

View attachment 957637
Damn I was close

Good call. I think it is heavy but I think Oshawa was somewhat backed into a corner. This was the deal they needed to be viable and SSM took advantage of it as they should.

 

[HUSH10]

Good call. I think it is heavy but I think Oshawa was somewhat backed into a corner. This was the deal they needed to be viable and SSM took advantage of it as they should.

Not having to give up multiple 2nds or 3rds I think is a win for Oshawa

 

[LDN]

What’s the next Oshawa deal? A forward?

 

[OMG67]

I think the question now is what happens with Griffin. IF he wasn’t used in this deal, it would “suggest” he isn’t waiving his NTC. Is that viable speculation?

 

[scotty171]

I think the question now is what happens with Griffin. IF he wasn’t used in this deal, it would “suggest” he isn’t waiving his NTC. Is that viable speculation?

We will see if he just didn't want to head north or if he's willing to move somewhere else I guess?

 

[dirty12]

Take out a 2, add a 4,6,7.

That was pretty close. Reasonable, but disappointing after knowing that Griffin and Smith were both included at one point. Credit to Hunt for getting the best player at the deadline at a highly discounted price.

Imo there are better players to be had. This was an almost necessary overpay for possibly the only remaining available impact D.

 

[Fischhaber]

Good call. I think it is heavy but I think Oshawa was somewhat backed into a corner. This was the deal they needed to be viable and SSM took advantage of it as they should.

I'm sorry, what?

I would argue that the deal is much, much less than it would have been had the NTC's not been an issue. The team trying to acquire said players is historically the one that makes the concessions.

I'd also argue that Oshawa is in a much better position to add another player with Griffin (if he waives) and a couple picks than they would have been with just picks alone.

 

[LDN]

What’s you depth chart look like now? Line combos etc

 

[OMG67]

I'm sorry, what?

I would argue that the deal is much, much less than it would have been had the NTC's not been an issue. The team trying to acquire said players is historically the one that makes the concessions.

Gibson may be the single impact D-Man available this year but it goes both ways. The two other teams seriously looking for D-Men (Brampton and Kingston) didn’t have ‘08s to move, nor were they willing to move high value ‘07s. SSM was pretty much negotiating with Oshawa the entire time. This was more about how far Oshawa was willing to bend. Once London pulled the trigger on Allen, the options became very thin. Who was SSM going to go to if not Oshawa where they’d get what they got?

Make no mistake, this was more about Oshawa’s desperation to fill a massive gap that now allows them to take that step forward. SSM wasn’t in the position for strength you suggest. If there was no deal here with Oshawa, the return would have been considerably worse.

 

[yessir29292]

Luchanko for Griffin and picks?

Edited to add, Budnick as well?

Not enough picks left for Luchanko

 

[StormWatcher]

Not enough picks left for Luchanko

Just checked the database, being updated in real time (Kudos GensUpdates).

 

[Fischhaber]

Gibson may be the single impact D-Man available this year but it goes both ways. The two other teams seriously looking for D-Men (Brampton and Kingston) didn’t have ‘08s to move, nor were they willing to move high value ‘07s. SSM was pretty much negotiating with Oshawa the entire time. This was more about how far Oshawa was willing to bend. Once London pulled the trigger on Allen, the options became very thin. Who was SSM going to go to if not Oshawa where they’d get what they got?

Make no mistake, this was more about Oshawa’s desperation to fill a massive gap that now allows them to take that step forward. SSM wasn’t in the position for strength you suggest. If there was no deal here with Oshawa, the return would have been considerably worse.

Oshawa was willing to bend more than they did, we know that.

The talk of who wanted an impact D and what players were available or not is entirely speculative on your part. I'm not going to engage in that kind of conversation because neither of us know anything in that regard. Every team wants an elite defenseman.

 

[yessir29292]

Marrelli-Gibson
Sandhu-Danford
Wang-D'Amato
?

Try and upgrade on D'Amato?

 

[dirty12]

Oshawa was willing to bend more than they did, we know that.

The talk of who wanted an impact D and what players were available or not is entirely speculative on your part. I'm not going to engage in that kind of conversation because neither of us know anything in that regard. Every team wants an elite defenseman.

Every team would take a top D cheap.
Barrie and London had no real interest in Gibson. Apparently SSM was not interested in Blonda. So Oshawa was really only competing with pick based offers.

 

[Fischhaber]

Every team would take a top D cheap.
Barrie and London had no real interest in Gibson. Apparently SSM was not interested in Blonda. So Oshawa was really only competing with pick based offers.

These teams in on Konnor Smith would presumably also want Gibson as well. Nobody knows who wants an elite player and who doesn't, but they almost always get a good price.

Blonda is just speculation based on the Hounds defense situation, not any kind of fact. The worst thing about this time of year is everyone pretending to know things.

 

[OMG67]

Oshawa was willing to bend more than they did, we know that.

The talk of who wanted an impact D and what players were available or not is entirely speculative on your part. I'm not going to engage in that kind of conversation because neither of us know anything in that regard. Every team wants an elite defenseman.

I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying Oshawa is wrong.

Barrie wasn’t going to add Gibson. I think we can agree on that. Their defence doesn’t need it. There is no reason for them to get into that war and battle Oshawa.
Brampton and Kingston had no ‘08s to move. Kingston clearly wasn’t moving Hopkins. If they were, they’d have been involved and could have outbid Oshawa on this trade easily. IMO, Hopkins as the centre may be worth more than Smith. Maybe. At least they are close.
Niagara doesn’t have the right pieces. They aren’t trading Wassilyn. What else do they have that fits?
Brampton could do it but they had Jiricek and Hamara return to help round out their defence. They probably make more sense for K.Smith.
Erie has Challenger but by all accounts, most feel he is a bust. SSM would not look at him seriously.
Windsor has Belchetz and they aren’t moving him. I don’t think they have the right pieces.

As I said, and you pretty much confirmed, Oshawa was willing to pay more but didn’t. The reason for that is because Oshawa was negotiating against themselves and their own needs. If this was supposed to be Griffin and Smith for Gibson (delete the picks), then one could easily argue they paid less by giving Smith and picks. I think you are arguing that too. So, if they actually ended up paying less then there still wasn’t a better deal to be had out there. Which, I go back to my original stance that Oshawa was pretty much negotiating against themselves and didn’t want to call SSM bluff.

This deal is reasonable and probably a bit high considering the options SSM had. I do not think I am far off in my assertions with respect to the trade market landscape and options out there.

Oshawa REALLY needed Gibson. In a big way too. They secured him. Good for them. SSM made out very well considering the landscape. This is a win-win for both sides.

 

[Fischhaber]

I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying Oshawa is wrong.

Barrie wasn’t going to add Gibson. I think we can agree on that. Their defence doesn’t need it. There is no reason for them to get into that war and battle Oshawa.
Brampton and Kingston had no ‘08s to move. Kingston clearly wasn’t moving Hopkins. If they were, they’d have been involved and could have outbid Oshawa on this trade easily. IMO, Hopkins as the centre may be worth more than Smith. Maybe. At least they are close.
Niagara doesn’t have the right pieces. They aren’t trading Wassilyn. What else do they have that fits?
Brampton could do it but they had Jiricek and Hamara return to help round out their defence. They probably make more sense for K.Smith.
Erie has Challenger but by all accounts, most feel he is a bust. SSM would not look at him seriously.
Windsor has Belchetz and they aren’t moving him. I don’t think they have the right pieces.

As I said, and you pretty much confirmed, Oshawa was willing to pay more but didn’t. The reason for that is because Oshawa was negotiating against themselves and their own needs. If this was supposed to be Griffin and Smith for Gibson (delete the picks), then one could easily argue they paid less by giving Smith and picks. I think you are arguing that too. So, if they actually ended up paying less then there still wasn’t a better deal to be had out there. Which, I go back to my original stance that Oshawa was pretty much negotiating against themselves and didn’t want to call SSM bluff.

This deal is reasonable and probably a bit high considering the options SSM had. I do not think I am far off in my assertions with respect to the trade market landscape and options out there.

Oshawa REALLY needed Gibson. In a big way too. They secured him. Good for them. SSM made out very well considering the landscape. This is a win-win for both sides.

If they make sense for Smith then they make sense for Gibson. He's a similar player, just not an OA. Other teams like Brantford, Sudbury, Flint, Kitchener, we have no idea what they are doing. It's a fool's game to predict that. We just know that every team wants elite players.

I know in past trades when you get a kid to waive his NTC ( like Smith did), you are kind of obligated to make a deal. Trades rarely fall apart due to this kind of thing and they find another solution. I don't think Raftis even looked elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if a favour is repaid in the future for the extremely light return. That kind of thing is common as well.

 

[OMG67]

If they make sense for Smith then they make sense for Gibson. He's a similar player, just not an OA. Other teams like Brantford, Sudbury, Flint, Kitchener, we have no idea what they are doing. It's a fool's game to predict that. We just know that every team wants elite players.

I know in past trades when you get a kid to waive his NTC ( like Smith did), you are kind of obligated to make a deal. Trades rarely fall apart due to this kind of thing and they find another solution. I don't think Raftis even looked elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if a favour is repaid in the future for the extremely light return. That kind of thing is common as well.

You keep saying it was a light return. IMO, that isn’t accurate based on the market.

I think you would be 100% correct had the two other teams desperately in the market for Gibson in the same manner as Oshawa had picked non-defected players (Brampton and Kingston). I honestly think you are bang on had those teams had better options for offers. But, they didn’t have those better options. This is why I say SSM was handcuffed. The types of deals available weren’t nearly as attractive as Oshawa. Because of that, you should not be arguing they took a light return.

If your point is there was another offer on the table from another team that was better than the offer accepted and the reason why the offer was accepted was because of an honour system where Oshawa had already cleared Smith and it would be bad optics to not at least try to work something out, then ok, if that is the case then I would agree with you. But, you have not said that so I am only trying to find a way to make your assessment more viable.

 

[dirty12]

These teams in on Konnor Smith would presumably also want Gibson as well. Nobody knows who wants an elite player and who doesn't, but they almost always get a good price.

Blonda is just speculation based on the Hounds defense situation, not any kind of fact. The worst thing about this time of year is everyone pretending to know things.

What teams wanting K.Smith have and were willing to part with the ‘07 or ‘08 SSM wanted; none. The hounds wanted what only Oshawa was willing to give.

 

[OHL4Life]

I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying Oshawa is wrong.

Barrie wasn’t going to add Gibson. I think we can agree on that. Their defence doesn’t need it. There is no reason for them to get into that war and battle Oshawa.
Brampton and Kingston had no ‘08s to move. Kingston clearly wasn’t moving Hopkins. If they were, they’d have been involved and could have outbid Oshawa on this trade easily. IMO, Hopkins as the centre may be worth more than Smith. Maybe. At least they are close.
Niagara doesn’t have the right pieces. They aren’t trading Wassilyn. What else do they have that fits?
Brampton could do it but they had Jiricek and Hamara return to help round out their defence. They probably make more sense for K.Smith.
Erie has Challenger but by all accounts, most feel he is a bust. SSM would not look at him seriously.
Windsor has Belchetz and they aren’t moving him. I don’t think they have the right pieces.

As I said, and you pretty much confirmed, Oshawa was willing to pay more but didn’t. The reason for that is because Oshawa was negotiating against themselves and their own needs. If this was supposed to be Griffin and Smith for Gibson (delete the picks), then one could easily argue they paid less by giving Smith and picks. I think you are arguing that too. So, if they actually ended up paying less then there still wasn’t a better deal to be had out there. Which, I go back to my original stance that Oshawa was pretty much negotiating against themselves and didn’t want to call SSM bluff.

This deal is reasonable and probably a bit high considering the options SSM had. I do not think I am far off in my assertions with respect to the trade market landscape and options out there.

Oshawa REALLY needed Gibson. In a big way too. They secured him. Good for them. SSM made out very well considering the landscape. This is a win-win for both sides.

flint, sudbury and oshawa where the loudest on gibson

 

[Fischhaber]

You keep saying it was a light return. IMO, that isn’t accurate based on the market.

I think you would be 100% correct had the two other teams desperately in the market for Gibson in the same manner as Oshawa had picked non-defected players (Brampton and Kingston). I honestly think you are bang on had those teams had better options for offers. But, they didn’t have those better options. This is why I say SSM was handcuffed. The types of deals available weren’t nearly as attractive as Oshawa. Because of that, you should not be arguing they took a light return.

If your point is there was another offer on the table from another team that was better than the offer accepted and the reason why the offer was accepted was because of an honour system where Oshawa had already cleared Smith and it would be bad optics to not at least try to work something out, then ok, if that is the case then I would agree with you. But, you have not said that so I am only trying to find a way to make your assessment more viable.

Yes, that's what I am saying. I think Smith and Griffin was the best offer they received and they locked in on that. I would bet my life that there were better offers than Smith+ picks. That's the price of keeping a good reputation, so I get it. It's unfortunate that the Griffin family made a decision that probably wasn't in the best interests of his career, but shit happens.

What teams wanting K.Smith have and were willing to part with the ‘07 or ‘08 SSM wanted; none. The hounds wanted what only Oshawa was willing to give.

We don't know which teams wanted an elite defenseman and we don't know what 07/08 players the Soo wanted. They just took back a RW when they have like 6 players ahead of Smith on the depth chart, so who the hell knows. I'm done with people pretending that they know what teams are doing.

 

[OMG67]

Yes, that's what I am saying. I think Smith and Griffin was the best offer they received and they locked in on that. I would bet my life that there were better offers than Smith+ picks. That's the price of keeping a good reputation, so I get it. It's unfortunate that the Griffin family made a decision that probably wasn't in the best interests of his career, but shit happens.

That’s fair. I agree 100% that no team was giving anything close to Smith and Griffin (back to back 1sts). However, once Oshawa is unable to secure their side of the bargain by not getting the NTCs cleared, there is no need for SSM to “save face” when the issue is not of their doing. It is up to Oshawa to try to save face. They did so to the best of their ability and it was a better deal than SSM would have had otherwise. There is not a GM out there that would point a finger at SSM for walking away from Oshawa after Oshawa was unable to get NTCs cleared while taking a better deal elsewhere. SSM continued working with Oshawa because it was in their best interests.

For example, if Flint was willing to move Zurawski and more picks or Sudbury was willing to move Blonda and more picks (and SSM preferred those deals) they should have taken those deals over the Oshawa deal. OShawa broke the deal being unable to hold their end of the bargain.

I think my assumption is accurate without knowing there were other deals out there of a comparable nature. I believe SSM took the best deal for them. I highly doubt they took a discount “just because…”

 

[Fischhaber]

That’s fair. I agree 100% that no team was giving anything close to Smith and Griffin (back to back 1sts). However, once Oshawa is unable to secure their side of the bargain by not getting the NTCs cleared, there is no need for SSM to “save face” when the issue is not of their doing. It is up to Oshawa to try to save face. They did so to the best of their ability and it was a better deal than SSM would have had otherwise. There is not a GM out there that would point a finger at SSM for walking away from Oshawa after Oshawa was unable to get NTCs cleared while taking a better deal elsewhere. SSM continued working with Oshawa because it was in their best interests.

For example, if Flint was willing to move Zurawski and more picks or Sudbury was willing to move Blonda and more picks (and SSM preferred those deals) they should have taken those deals over the Oshawa deal. OShawa broke the deal being unable to hold their end of the bargain.

I think my assumption is accurate without knowing there were other deals out there of a comparable nature. I believe SSM took the best deal for them. I highly doubt they took a discount “just because…”

There would certainly be finger pointing and reputation damage. I've heard plenty of stories about this kind of thing from a former Greyhounds executive and another former coach. There are a lot of unwritten rules that you might find a little off. This is how teams get bad reputations or get blackballed to an extent. That's currently the case with Sudbury's GM Rob Papineau for his negotiating style and Owen Sound's GM Dale DeGray for a situation just like this several years ago. One current GM even refuses to deal with him and has stuck to that for several years now.

 

[OMG67]

There would certainly be finger pointing and reputation damage. I've heard plenty of stories about this kind of thing from a former Greyhounds executive and another former coach. There are a lot of unwritten rules that you might find a little off. This is how teams get bad reputations or get blackballed to an extent. That's currently the case with Sudbury's GM Rob Papineau for his negotiating style and Owen Sound's GM Dale DeGray for a situation just like this several years ago. One current GM even refuses to deal with him and has stuck to that for several years now.

I cry bullshit on that. Hypothetically speaking, if that is true then if Barrie was unable to work out the NTC for Parker Vaughn, North Bay would have been obligated to take a different deal from Barrie and walk away from other potential deals of better value. Sorry, but that is bullshit.

 

[Fischhaber]

I cry bullshit on that. Hypothetically speaking, if that is true then if Barrie was unable to work out the NTC for Parker Vaughn, North Bay would have been obligated to take a different deal from Barrie and walk away from other potential deals of better value. Sorry, but that is bullshit.

If you say so. I do believe that North Bay would have worked out another deal, had Vaughn not come. Historically, that's what happens almost every single time and it's never particularly surprising. I can count on one hand the number of times that big time trades have completely fallen apart due to a NTC. There's very little evidence to support your position that teams don't give a f*** and will just go for any deal, even if they have already courted a kid's family for weeks and turned his life upside down.