Orr Vs Gretzky

[alanschu]

OK, I'll bite: How is it silly? Two equal teams. Orr on one, Gretzky on the other. I put forward the Orr teams win. If this is true, then anyone who is making up a team would pick Orr ahead of Gretzky (to give themselves the best chance at victory), and Orr would have to be considered the better player.

Edit: My favourite part is that not one Gretzky supporter has even bothered to say the team with Gretzky would win. Kinda puts everything into perspective.

I could just as easily state that the reason why that exists is because the Gretzky fans are more grounded in reality and aren't resulting to absurd, and impossible, situations. Since you insist on talking hypotheticals, I'll say the Gretzky team wins.

Happy?

Prove me wrong

 

[alanschu]

A misnomer? No lad, that was sarcasm.

It was obvious you were being sarcastic.

But when people talk about "evolution" of sports athletes, they aren't talking about physical evolution. Unless you were NOT talking about physical evolution, I have no idea what the heck you are talking about.


Because of your sarcasm, you meant the opposite of what you said, that evolution hasn't made a difference. Biological evolution hasn't changed, but our understanding of sports medicine has.

 

[BNHL]

I could just as easily state that the reason why that exists is because the Gretzky fans are more grounded in reality and aren't resulting to absurd, and impossible, situations. Since you insist on talking hypotheticals, I'll say the Gretzky team wins.

Happy?

Prove me wrong

Like most cup winning teams who could play anyway you want,physical or not physical,Bobby Orr could also play anyway you want,physical or not physical and usually he was the one who dictated.

 

[slade]

wow ive just read this entire thread and im impressed with the majority of it. however it seems to me like the trend around these parts is to discount alot of what wayne did.

for the simple fact that he is the only household name across the universe in terms of this sport has to count for something. he consistently dominated for such a long stretch of time its almost unfathomable.

 

[alanschu]

Like most cup winning teams who could play anyway you want,physical or not physical,Bobby Orr could also play anyway you want,physical or not physical and usually he was the one who dictated.

 

[slade]

that orr youtube clip reminded me of the good kid in my roller hockey league.

 

[BNHL]

I'm from Edmonton,I'm from Edmonton,I'm from Edmonton,I'm from Edmonton.............

 

[slade]

that also means he saw him play more


does that discount all of the orr disputes from boston fans?

 

[BNHL]

that also means he saw him play more


does that discount all of the orr disputes from boston fans?

I saw Gretzky live between 15 and 20 times and Orr over 100 as we were season ticket holders from 1965-2006. He would have had to attend around 20 Oiler games in 9 years to be even and he was probably 9 or 10 years old though I have no way of knowing. I'm from Boston,I'm from Boston,I'm from Boston.............

 

[bishop12]

This doesn't add to the debate, but IMO, Lemieux was better than Gretzky. Not career wise, but talent wise.

 

[alanschu]

I'm from Edmonton,I'm from Edmonton,I'm from Edmonton,I'm from Edmonton.............

I grew up watching Gretzky, but I was too young to appreciate his abilities. I feel no more qualified to accurate describe whether or not he's a more capable player than Bobby Orr or not.

By the time I was old enough to begin to appreciate sports, my sport of preference was basketball and I was much more interested in what was happening with the likes of Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Charles Barkley. The only championship I remember is the 1990 championship, and the reason why I remember it is because I didn't watch it. I remember it because my brother started cheering like mad when Petr Klima scored his OT goal.

I may have watched prior championships, but I have no real recollection of doing so.


As for my banging of my head, it's because you actually responded to my comment about how I'd pick the 5 Gretzkys to win. The only reason why I responded was because the other chap felt that since none of the "Gretzky supporters" stated that they felt that the 5 Gretzkys would win, it must mean something.

Unfortunately, you decided to continue talking about it. Face it, the 5 Orrs versus 5 Gretzkys is inconsequential, because it's even more absurd than any other comparisons between the two legends.

 

[mcphee]

I saw Gretzky live between 15 and 20 times and Orr over 100 as we were season ticket holders from 1965-2006. He would have had to attend around 20 Oiler games in 9 years to be even and he was probably 9 or 10 years old though I have no way of knowing. I'm from Boston,I'm from Boston,I'm from Boston.............

Not that it has any bearing on the deabte, but wasn't Boston the one rink he struggled in ?
Wasn't Steve Kasper known as the one guy who did a good job on Gretzky ?

Ogo, do you happen to have Gretzky's ppg in different cities or against different teams ?

 

[RUSqueelin*]

Not that it has any bearing on the deabte, but wasn't Boston the one rink he struggled in ?
Wasn't Steve Kasper known as the one guy who did a good job on Gretzky ?

Ogo, do you happen to have Gretzky's ppg in different cities or against different teams ?

http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/history/gretzky/statsarena.html

 

[Shakeywalton]

Only read the 1st page, but I am very happy to see sanity win out.

Bobby Orr was in a class of his own, and is easily the top player to ever lace them up.

 

[SHO NUFF*]

Gretzky. End of discussion.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

My take.

Orr had the greatest peak of any player ever. Gretzky is second.

Howe had the greatest career of any player ever. Gretzky is second.

As such, overall, Gretzky is the best ever.

 

[asdf]

This was a topic of discussion on Primetime Sports on the Fan 590 a few days back. The podcast is probably on their website. I think it started with Crosby and then moved on to Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe etc. and then after was more about Gretzky and Orr. I only caught bits of it so I may have misinterpreted some things said, but from what I remember:

- they talked about how Gretzky avoided physical contact, partly because of how hard he was to hit, and part because of the hands off rule.

- Jim Kelly talked about a Bruins-Sabres game that he remembered where Orr walked into the Sabres bench and said "which one of you (expletive deleted) wants some of this?" Kelly then jokingly said "I don't think I recall Gretzky ever doing anything like that."

- they leaned towards Orr but said it was a tough choice because Gretzky played a long, full career whereas Orr's career was cut short by injuries.

- they mentioned that we never saw Orr at 100% because of the injuries obviously, but also because Orr would do things in practice that he would never do in the actual game because he didn't want to embarass the opponent.

 

[Ogopogo*]

This was a topic of discussion on Primetime Sports on the Fan 590 a few days back. The podcast is probably on their website. I think it started with Crosby and then moved on to Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe etc. and then after was more about Gretzky and Orr. I only caught bits of it so I may have misinterpreted some things said, but from what I remember:

- they talked about how Gretzky avoided physical contact, partly because of how hard he was to hit, and part because of the hands off rule.

- Jim Kelly talked about a Bruins-Sabres game that he remembered where Orr walked into the Sabres bench and said "which one of you (expletive deleted) wants some of this?" Kelly then jokingly said "I don't think I recall Gretzky ever doing anything like that."

- they leaned towards Orr but said it was a tough choice because Gretzky played a long, full career whereas Orr's career was cut short by injuries.

- they mentioned that we never saw Orr at 100% because of the injuries obviously, but also because Orr would do things in practice that he would never do in the actual game because he didn't want to embarass the opponent.

I usually give the opinions of the Prime Time Sports panel very little credibility. What exactly was their description of the "hands off rule"?

 

[04' hockey]

I usually give the opinions of the Prime Time Sports panel very little credibility. What exactly was their description of the "hands off rule"?

Ogo, c'mon

Ziegler's unwritten "hands off the marquee player"

 

[Ogopogo*]

Ogo, c'mon

Ziegler's unwritten "hands off the marquee player"

How was this enforced? Suspensions? Misconduct penalties?

To convince me you'll need to show me some evidence of this rule actaully existing.

 

[#66]

Orr is the best ever IMO and stat just won't change what I've seen.

Is it me or does anyone else feel that the hands off thing is bogus? I really don't see the 80's Flyers or Flames playing Gretzky soft.

 

[Wetcoaster]

My take.

Orr had the greatest peak of any player ever. Gretzky is second.

Howe had the greatest career of any player ever. Gretzky is second.

As such, overall, Gretzky is the best ever.

As you say it all depends upon your criteria for the greatest player.

All-around I would put Orr and Howe in a tie as they were as good defensively as offensively and both could throw 'em if need be.

 

[Cawz]

How was this enforced? Suspensions? Misconduct penalties?

To convince me you'll need to show me some evidence of this rule actaully existing.

Dont you remember? in the 80s, the players were such pansies that they would allow Gretzky to score at will because they were afraid of being beat up. Plus, they were such rule-abiding nancies, they agreed to lose games becasue Ziegler told them not to hit the star.

Its a good thing the players of today have the guts to stand up for themselves. Imagine if the players nowadays purposely let themelves look stupid, just so the stars could score more points.

I think thats where the whole "lack of respect" issue comes in these days. Back in the 80s, the players cared for the league as a whole, so they allowed Gretzky to score over 200 points in a season, becasue it was for the greater good. Nowdays, the players care more about winning, not like in the 80s when players were just happy to play the game and have fun.

Or like in the 70s, when star players like Orr "would do things in practice that he would never do in the actual game because he didn't want to embarass the opponent". I was too young in the 70s, but apparetly the respect for the opponant was there as well.

Maybe some of the older posters here should shes some light on how things were in the 60s. Maybe there was so much respect back then that the players didnt hit each other, and all the players from both teams cheered whenever anyone scored. Becasue isnt having fun the whole reason of sports?

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

As you say it all depends upon your criteria for the greatest player.

This place would be mighty boring if most things weren't subjective.

 

[Levizk]

This doesn't add to the debate, but IMO, Lemieux was better than Gretzky. Not career wise, but talent wise.

I'm going to have to go with Orr as well just based on the fact that Lemieux was indeed better than Gretzky. Unfortunately you can't accumulate the stats to prove it though when people are actually allowed to hit and injure you as was the case for Orr and Lemieux.