Orr says Crosby is a top-5 player of all time, McDavid has the potential to be the best ever
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WingsMJN2965
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As long as people are caught up in nostalgia, nobody will ever want to acknowledge that Gretzky can be passed.
People are stupid. Gretzky played in an Era where goal scoring was at an all time high nobody will ever pass Gretzky in points Atleast not with the current rules regulations and competition but even Gretzky had said that he wouldnt have been anywhere near the player he was if he played in this era. I'm not sure Mcdavid is as good in this era as Gretzky was in his so I do think he was fall into second best all time, but the argument about Gretzky's goal or point totals is absolutely pointless as it's a completely new Era of hockey
He still scored 130 points at age 33 in in 1994. He then scored 102 and a couple of 90 point seasons through his mid to late 30's. I have to think that even if you put him into today's game in his prime he would be dominating his competition.
blankall
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A lot of posters aren't taking into account that Orr stated "potential". McDavid has all the talent in the world. If he finds a way to elevate his game even further and win 3+ cups and a bunch of Art Ross trophies, and this goes on for another decade, of course he's in the conversation.
Will he do that? Who knows. Very few players ever realize the very peak of their potential. You could argue no player ever does, as the term potential implies some perfect standard of always realizing the best possible outcome.
To realize potential, things outside of your control need to go right too. McDavid already has 2 Art Rosses playing with guys like Chiasson and Pat Maroon. People forget that guys like Lemieux and Gretzky, had very solid linemates and played on excellent teams. Lemieux played with Ron Francis and Jaromir Jagr FFS. If the Oilers can get their shit together, obviously it'll be good for McDavid's legacy too.
Will he do that? Who knows. Very few players ever realize the very peak of their potential. You could argue no player ever does, as the term potential implies some perfect standard of always realizing the best possible outcome.
To realize potential, things outside of your control need to go right too. McDavid already has 2 Art Rosses playing with guys like Chiasson and Pat Maroon. People forget that guys like Lemieux and Gretzky, had very solid linemates and played on excellent teams. Lemieux played with Ron Francis and Jaromir Jagr FFS. If the Oilers can get their shit together, obviously it'll be good for McDavid's legacy too.
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blankall
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In 97/98, Gretzky was 37 and had lost a step. He still finished 4th and only finished 12 points behind the leading scorer, prime Jagr. Even in his diminished form, he was tied with Bure and 1 point behind Forsberg.
Would Gretzky in his prime have dominated a guy like McDavid? I don't know about dominate, but he likely would have scored more consistently IMO.
I hope this is a joke right? You're saying McDavid won't be top 5? McDavids already had 3 straight 100+ point seasons and would've had another one this year if covid didn't happen. He's 3 points off. No disrespect to Sid though.
Sid is definitely top 5. With that being said, he also had 6 100+ point seasons in his career so far and he's 32 so he may reach it again. McDavid just turned 23 and he's already had 3 of them. How are they both not on pace to be top 5?
Well he's already had 3 100+ point seasons out of the 5 he's played soo... I think he's doing pretty well all things considered
Umm yeah McDavid isn't just amazing because of his speed lmfao. Watch Oiler games first not just highlights
In terms of raw talent I think McDavid is already one of the most talented players I've ever seen. And yes, I watched Gretzky and Lemieux both in their prime, even got to see Gretzky live in his peak/prime several times.
For career accolades a lot of that is out of a player's control. It's not like Wayne Gretzky had anything to do with him getting to play with Messier, Coffey, Kurri, etc.
Lets remember too, Mario suffered for a long time with the stigma of being a loser and didn't win anything for a long time, and Gretzky even still in his 20s/early 30s never won a Cup again without the all-star team he had around him in Edmonton.
As an Oiler fan, it's an argument I don't really care that much about, Gretzky is the defacto GOAT, which is fine by me. That said, if you put current McDavid on any of those Cup winning Oiler teams in the 80s in place of Gretzky ... do I think they still the Cup? Sure.
For career accolades a lot of that is out of a player's control. It's not like Wayne Gretzky had anything to do with him getting to play with Messier, Coffey, Kurri, etc.
Lets remember too, Mario suffered for a long time with the stigma of being a loser and didn't win anything for a long time, and Gretzky even still in his 20s/early 30s never won a Cup again without the all-star team he had around him in Edmonton.
As an Oiler fan, it's an argument I don't really care that much about, Gretzky is the defacto GOAT, which is fine by me. That said, if you put current McDavid on any of those Cup winning Oiler teams in the 80s in place of Gretzky ... do I think they still the Cup? Sure.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Number 1 is a guy sometimes discussed as the GOAT of GOATs (Gretzky)
Number 2 is a guy many people say is even better than number 1 and had he stayed healthy would have the greatest trophy case in sports history. (Orr)
Number 3 and 4 in whatever order are Lemiuex/Howe or Howe/Lemiuex. Ask any pens fan they will tell you Crosby is not better than 66. Lemiuex talent wise may be the greatest player of all time but never had the ability to stay healthy or motivated long enough to match gretzky/orr and potentially Howe. Howe is the one most fans are least familiar with but he does have dominant trophy case (doubt McDavid gets more Rosses than Howe) along with multiple decades of dominance (20 top 5 finishes which 100% McDavid wont get and Crosby cant get).
Crosby is one of my favourite players ever. I have him 5th ahead of Bobby Hull personally right now. I'm expecting McDavid to end 5th best and push Crosby one spot down. Mcdavid/Crosby are options for 5th overall and can be ranked a bit lower (7th or 8th depending on if you like hull and a couple other guys a bit more).
Hockey's mount Rushmore is the most untouchable in the big 4 sports. Its almost impossible for a player to end up ahead of the 4 players listed above.
I guess that can be agreed upon. Points wise, the Top 4 can't ever be reached. But, I always have to argue how the NHL has changed over the years with goaltending equipment, skill, defensive skill, etc.
Sidney the Kidney
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Why? It didn't hurt Lemieux's legacy that he played for the Pens when they were complete ass.
Elite talent shines through. If a player struggles to have individual success on a given franchise, then that player probably wasn't truly the best of the best.
TheBluePenguin
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OMG I never thought of that, to watch the best player in the world play hockey?? What an original idea .....
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
What is this garbage??? His right hand man on the PP and sometimes on 5 on 5 is Leon Freaking Draisaitl who's scored 100 points plus for 2 straight years
Your bias is so gross
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
When the 2nd best player on your team is the freaking Art Ross and probably Hart trophy winner, you have at least a decent bedrock to start with.
Nugent Hopkins, Yamamoto, Athansiou, Nurse, Bear, Klefbom with Bouchard and Broberg coming on the back end beyond that ... it's not like there's nothing for him to work with.
Mr Positive
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The word "potential" means you shouldn't be too angry at that statement. He didn't say what would have to happen.
Imo not only would McDavid have to be crazy consistent, but the Oilers would have to be amazingly well run, winning cups, meanwhile drafting players great enough to propell the team when McDavid slows down as he ages. And yes, when defining the best ever, you need that player to get a ton of support and not do it all themselves.
On the positive side, it seems like medical technology is getting to a point where McDavid will recover from major injuries really well (*knocks on wood*)
Imo not only would McDavid have to be crazy consistent, but the Oilers would have to be amazingly well run, winning cups, meanwhile drafting players great enough to propell the team when McDavid slows down as he ages. And yes, when defining the best ever, you need that player to get a ton of support and not do it all themselves.
On the positive side, it seems like medical technology is getting to a point where McDavid will recover from major injuries really well (*knocks on wood*)
Hatfield
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This is also wrong. This supposed evolution or advancement of modern players is way overstated.
Gretzky - at an advanced age - competed on the scoring charts with a player who until a few seasons ago was STILL an effective player in this league (Jagr). Plenty of others who were still superstars in the post-lockout era played with/against him.
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