Organizational Moves (Front Office & Scouting)

[Oddbob]

Not going to lie, I was actually hoping Steve would trade to bring in someone decent, just for the sake of improving our team, rather than just standing pat and adding depth to the team this offseason. I know it is early, but was hoping for something unexpected even if it wasn't a major player but just a good player to make our current group better.

 

[Claypool]

Not just signing bad deals. Also basically refusing to trade roster players. The only big names he's traded in the last decade were Tatar and Nyquist and he waited until the very end to do that, which affected the return. Yzerman was much more active in Tampa.

Ok, so you're not trading Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Kronwall. What other deals would you have made over the last 10 seasons?

 

[The Zermanator]

Ok, so you're not trading Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Kronwall. What other deals would you have made over the last 10 seasons?

There's Nyquist, who could have returned a lot more than a 2nd and 3rd if traded earlier. Hudler is a big one. Especially after his KHL stunt. But what happens? He plays for 2 years and walks for nothing in FA. Filppula had hit 60 points, he walked for nothing. Stuart's rights traded for peanuts. Then there's Helm and Abdelkader who had value at one point. Instead they were signed to their terrible deals which were panned from day 1. Abby has negative value now. They should have been traded when they were at peak value rather than signed to deals that were never going to age well.

And if there was relatively little value to trade from the team, that was a reflection of how it was constructed. We have been the bizarro Toronto in a lot of ways. While they struggle with the cap trying to fill out depth around their superstars, Detroit never really had any huge contracts. Datsyuk and Lidstrom at ~7.5M are the largest I can remember. And in the 2010s we've never had a roster with more than 3 of those at one time, only 2 for most of it. Zero 8/9/10M contracts. The cap bloat on the Red Wings comes entirely from the bottom 6 and bottom 4. Had they been more disciplined with their cap management of the roster's bottom half, they would have had more money to play with in FA. That would have allowed them to sign players which could have trade value at some point.

I say Holland basically refused to trade because a) he didn't trade the players who did have value; b) he used up a huge portion of his cap space on players who would never have trade value. Old Bertuzzi, Sammy, and Cleary became old Helm, Abdelkader, and Nielsen; and c) As a result of cap problems, never/rarely signed a FA who could have trade value down the road. There's a reason 'kicking tires' and 'prices were too high' essentially became memes.

My estimation of this relatively quiet offseason from Yzerman is that he is establishing himself and taking stock of everything. And once he has a handle on things he will execute what he believes to be the best way forward. I think by next offseason we are going to be seeing a volume of movement around this team we have not been accustomed to in a long time.

 

[deca guard]

ide say drapers a new factor in the league as hes never had the draft hammer before . and his dads been some type scout forever if i remember right , then hes obviously lived for hockey his entire life ands a known rink rat and red wing lifer . couldnt have a better formula for creating a scout . might end up being a great change . another move ide like seeing is some how hiring datsyuk as a development coach , even if we have to send prospects to him in russia for a special camp every summer . i want datsyuk logic being incorporated into red wing methods .

 

[Dotter]

Link

HF never disappoints...

In fairness to Oiler fans, that thread is being called out for "trolling" and none of the Oilers' fans are on board with the original poster's thread.

Don't lump it up as if the entire fan base are cooking up the tar and feathers.

 

[Dotter]

Thank you. I mean that.

The higher the pick the bigger the spotlight. Top 10 picks come with expectations that are far less by pick 15.

And because Rasmussen embodies the Wright mentality of size and character above pure skill. So...

It's a high profile pick. It's symbolic of his draft philosophy. And it was largely unpopular. Thus, years from now, that pick will reflect in the general collective consciousness of his era.

That isn't to be confused for the whole picture or if it's fair to him. It may be neither of those things. But the father you get from an event, the more nuance is lost and the big moments become the story. So I believe if Rasmussen is a hit, we will look back favorably upon his time. If Rasmussen is a dud, so too shall the overall feeling for Wright's tenure.

What if Zadina (who wasn't the biggest guy) is a hit?

 

[Dotter]

Not just signing bad deals. Also basically refusing to trade roster players. The only big names he's traded in the last decade were Tatar and Nyquist and he waited until the very end to do that, which affected the return. Yzerman was much more active in Tampa.

1st, 2nd and a 3rd effected the return? You can go to any board on this website and people will tell you Holland won that trade by a landslide.

 

[Claypool]

There's Nyquist, who could have returned a lot more than a 2nd and 3rd if traded earlier. Hudler is a big one. Especially after his KHL stunt. But what happens? He plays for 2 years and walks for nothing in FA. Filppula had hit 60 points, he walked for nothing. Stuart's rights traded for peanuts. Then there's Helm and Abdelkader who had value at one point. Instead they were signed to their terrible deals which were panned from day 1. Abby has negative value now. They should have been traded when they were at peak value rather than signed to deals that were never going to age well.

And if there was relatively little value to trade from the team, that was a reflection of how it was constructed. We have been the bizarro Toronto in a lot of ways. While they struggle with the cap trying to fill out depth around their superstars, Detroit never really had any huge contracts. Datsyuk and Lidstrom at ~7.5M are the largest I can remember. And in the 2010s we've never had a roster with more than 3 of those at one time, only 2 for most of it. Zero 8/9/10M contracts. The cap bloat on the Red Wings comes entirely from the bottom 6 and bottom 4. Had they been more disciplined with their cap management of the roster's bottom half, they would have had more money to play with in FA. That would have allowed them to sign players which could have trade value at some point.

I say Holland basically refused to trade because a) he didn't trade the players who did have value; b) he used up a huge portion of his cap space on players who would never have trade value. Old Bertuzzi, Sammy, and Cleary became old Helm, Abdelkader, and Nielsen; and c) As a result of cap problems, never/rarely signed a FA who could have trade value down the road. There's a reason 'kicking tires' and 'prices were too high' essentially became memes.

My estimation of this relatively quiet offseason from Yzerman is that he is establishing himself and taking stock of everything. And once he has a handle on things he will execute what he believes to be the best way forward. I think by next offseason we are going to be seeing a volume of movement around this team we have not been accustomed to in a long time.

Your belief is that any upcoming UFA that isn't signed to a deal should automatically be traded no matter what? I can't imagine folks would be happy dumping Hudler and Filppula for draft picks and prospects when the team is trying to win a Stanley Cup. When did Helm have value? His back injury scared off pretty much any interest in him.

So over the last decade you can only think of four trades that should have happened and two that you weren't happy about the return. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Couple tidbits in Wright's defense

In 2014, the Wings were supposedly looking at Pastranak and McCann if Larkin wasn't available. While McCann wouldn't have been "great" (not horrible though), Pasta arguably would go top 3 in a redraft.

2015: Most teams likely would have taken/heavily considered Svechnikov at that spot, and his D+1+2 seasons made it seem like he'd be a good player before injuries.

In 2017, two teams supposedly had Elias Pettersson in their top 2; Vancouver and Detroit. I didn't like the Rasmussen pick at the time, but after watching him I don't hate it. None of the similarly ranked picks taken after him seem to be miles ahead of him and he's pretty much a lock as a 20 goal guy. Not what you want from a top 10 pick, but Vilardi likely won't even play more than 20 games in the NHL due to injuries, and none of the guys other teams realistically would have looked at (Necas/Suzuki/Tippitt) are lighting the world on fire/would have likely done much better than Rasmussen in the NHL. Obviously Thomas is better, but no one was looking at him in the 8-13 range.


That said, I did have some issues with his draft, including these ones at the time.

2015 when Barzal fell I distinctly remember posting on reddit that I would be ok with Holland offering our entire draft cabinet to move up to one of Boston's 3 picks to get him. Risky, but it would have worked out.

2017: I wanted the local kid (Northville) Jason Robertson over Lindstrom, especially since we likely could have gotten him in the third. I normally don't fault for second round picks, but the dude was a faller and local, and is now looking like a great power forward prospect.

2018: Wanted Akil Thomas instead of Berggren and also stated that I would be ok with trading all of our remaining picks past McIssac for the chance to draft him when he was still there in the mid 40s. Walking away from the draft with Zadina, Veleno, Berggren, Akil Thomas, and McIssac would be well worth everything else.

 

[obey86]

Couple tidbits in Wright's defense

In 2014, the Wings were supposedly looking at Pastranak and McCann if Larkin wasn't available. While McCann wouldn't have been "great" (not horrible though), Pasta arguably would go top 3 in a redraft.

2015: Most teams likely would have taken/heavily considered Svechnikov at that spot, and his D+1+2 seasons made it seem like he'd be a good player before injuries.

In 2017, two teams supposedly had Elias Pettersson in their top 2; Vancouver and Detroit. I didn't like the Rasmussen pick at the time, but after watching him I don't hate it. None of the similarly ranked picks taken after him seem to be miles ahead of him and he's pretty much a lock as a 20 goal guy. Not what you want from a top 10 pick, but Vilardi likely won't even play more than 20 games in the NHL due to injuries, and none of the guys other teams realistically would have looked at (Necas/Suzuki/Tippitt) are lighting the world on fire/would have likely done much better than Rasmussen in the NHL. Obviously Thomas is better, but no one was looking at him in the 8-13 range.


That said, I did have some issues with his draft, including these ones at the time.

2015 when Barzal fell I distinctly posting on reddit that I would be ok with Holland offering our entire draft cabinet to move up to one of Boston's 3 picks to get him. Risky, but it would have worked out.

2017: I wanted the local kid (Northville) Jason Robertson over Lindstrom, especially since we likely could have gotten him in the third. I normally don't fault for second round picks, but the dude was a faller and local, and is now looking like a great power forward prospect.

2018: Wanted Akil Thomas instead of Berggren and also stated that I would be ok with trading all of our remaining picks past McIssac for the chance to draft him when he was still there in the mid 40s. Walking away from the draft with Zadina, Veleno, Akil Thomas, and McIssac would be well worth everything else.

This is a crazy. Has a team ever done this in the NHL?

 

[Ricelund]

This is a crazy. Has a team ever done this in the NHL?

In 2012, NYI offered Columbus all of their picks including #4OA for the #2OA. Columbus turned them down.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

This is a crazy. Has a team ever done this in the NHL?

Not to my knowledge, but both the instances in which I posted about doing it at the time seemed to be preferable. While I get it’s a numbers game and actually like what we did in 2018 post 2nd round (Regula, Kivenmaki, Barton, Ryan O’Reily), let’s be real here, if we’re lucky two play NHL games, and if they do, likely will be depth. You can always buy depth as UFAs or undrafted FAs. Barring injuries, Akil Thomas assuredly will, and has a good chance of being a good one. I think it makes sense when there are obvious fallers. In the days of the internet, Datsyuk picks are getting rarer and rarer.

If the BPA projects to be better than the best case (realistic) scenario of all the other picks, I feel it to be justified. While hindsight is 20/20, (and I have gotten my fair share of stuff wrong) 2015 looks like it would have worked out, and I’d be willing to bet 2018 will look similarly. Would you not trade all our picks after McIssac for Akil Thomas now that they’ve been drafted? I doubt LA would accept it

In 2012, NYI offered Columbus all of their picks including #4OA for the #2OA. Columbus turned them down.

Offering a group of draft picks that includes the 4th OA and a high second rounder + late round picks is a lot different than the 19th OA and a third + late round picks to move up to snag what I believed to be a top 5 talent

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Not sure if this is the right thread

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Not sure if this is the right thread

It is.

 

[deca guard]

out with the 250lb squat rack and bench press . in with the body weight and core and coordination strengthening exercises . next hire , ryan oreillys father .

 

[WesNichols14]

out with the 250lb squat rack and bench press . in with the body weight and core and coordination strengthening exercises . next hire , ryan oreillys father .

What?

 

[deca guard]

What?

am i supposed to read your mind ?

 

[WesNichols14]

am i supposed to read your mind ?

Did we hire Ryan O'Reilly's father?

 

[deca guard]

Did we hire Ryan O'Reilly's father?

was refering to oreilys father creating some unique exercises to improve his balance / coordination / quickness of thought / hand eye coordination that are credited with improving his game . the report on it probably popped up on a cbc broadcast during a game and i wrongly assumed everybody was aware of oreilys dad being a big factor in his training

 

[hkydave04]

1st, 2nd and a 3rd effected the return? You can go to any board on this website and people will tell you Holland won that trade by a landslide.

He wasn't 100% debating who won the trade!! He is saying it was basically the only trade of core players in the last 10 years, was his biggest gripe

 

[WesNichols14]

was refering to oreilys father creating some unique exercises to improve his balance / coordination / quickness of thought / hand eye coordination that are credited with improving his game . the report on it probably popped up on a cbc broadcast during a game and i wrongly assumed everybody was aware of oreilys dad being a big factor in his training

That's interesting, thank you for explaining it.

 

[lhsgolf19]

Hockey Operations

 

[ricky0034]

 

[Henkka]

Hockey Operations

My God I hope this Nashville-guy (Rezmierski) had something to do with drafting Defencemen.

Seems to be that Rezmierski is former US Hockey Director, so Michigan and Ann Arbor are just coming home.

And Jesse Wallin, has worked for years with the Blues as amateur scout.

Two add-ons from one of the greatest defences in the league. Very. Interesting.

 

[Henkka]

Red Wings promote Kris Draper to director of amateur scouting

Also two extra scouts + former Tampa Bay goaltending scout.