#OReillyWatch - Summer of 2014 - Part I

[tigervixxxen]

The Fan has great archives. It will be up later. I'm through with my fill of Dater for the week as I work to get the images of him in Vegas out of my mind so if anyone wants to share highlights I'm all ears.

 

[Avs_19]

LeBrun said he thinks the goal for the Avs is still to keep chipping away with Newport and trying to get a long-term extension done. That's nothing new and it isn't surprising. Dater is the only one talking about a trade right now.

I listened to a bit of Dater's interview, nothing new on O'Reilly. He just explained what's going on right now, said Avs might have an internal "Duchene cap", we'll know more tomorrow if Sakic/Roy talk about it, etc. Also said the Avs are optimistic about re-signing Stastny. The hosts asked about Willie Mitchell and Dater said he'd be a good addition and mentioned Greene as well.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Dater and Boulding are the only ones blowing this out of proportion. The real insiders have had nothing to say. I said it yesterday but the Avs aren't going to crap their pants in fear over what some jerk said on the tv yesterday.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

LeBrun said he thinks the goal for the Avs is still to keep chipping away with Newport and trying to get a long-term extension done. That's nothing new and it isn't surprising. Dater is the only one talking about a trade right now.

Just wondering...when did Lebrun say this?

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

When did Duchene throw a fit? The guy is one of the most chill players on the team. He' do anything for the Avs to win. He came back on one leg to try and get the Avs into the playoffs in the 2011-12 season. Duchene's been a team player since he put on the Avs jersey.

Thats what I read on the message boards. Not sure if true or not. I never took it at face value. Hence the reason i was asking and not stating it as fact.

Elite defense with no offense doesn't get you elite money. At that point in his career he was a top defensive forward but had only 107 pts in 236 games for an average of .45pts per game. .45pts per game doesn't get you elite level money, 5.5M per year is elite level money for a 21 year old player. You better be close to producing a point per game and have a solid defensive game to get that kind of cash. Yes you could argue that ROR was on the upswing but who knows if he would have topped out at that point or not. Just because someone has a good work ethic doesn't mean they have the skills to back it up. (see Tim Tebow)

If ROR had just played ball and taken the bridge deal like he should have because that was what he was worth, he would have gotten paid this time around just like Duchene did.

In no way does ROR deserve Bergeron money, and that's what it appears he is looking for. ROR and Bergeron aren't on the same level at the moment.

5.5 is not elite money. Thats not even below Elite money. Thats what the role playing top 6 forwards should get.

I think you keep missing my point. Age does not matter to me. A youngster should not be downgraded simply because they have not proven themselves over and over again. Good hockey minds should be able to see which players are going to progress and which ones will not. And I expect the NHL is full of guys capable of doing so. The idea of forcing a guy like MacK into a bridge deal is just absurd. Is there anyone here who would not give him 5.5 right now after just one season in which he scored 63 points but had very inconsistent D (compared to Oreilly's "one good season" in which he had 55 points and elite level D- personally I would take O'Reilly's season, but I am fond of great defense, after all, Defense wins championships)? Same goes for Hertl, Kreider, Granlund Niederrieter and Palat. I feel extremely confident in saying they will be top6 forwards for many years to come and would have no problem giving them an early paycheck around 5.5 per year.

so now someone who produces a point every other game is someone with "no offense"? Hardly. Elite D + half a point per game, that sounds like the perfect 3rd line C and someone capable of filling in on the top 6.

5.5 does not seem like too much for a great 3d line C. Look at the kings and their depth down the middle. I would be perfect happy paying a great 3rd line C 5.5. And a great 3rd line C is the very least he would have turned out to be. Thats not taking into account that he improved past that half a point per game line the next season and led the team in points. Yeah, lets just forget that season all together, because it might have been a fluke. Pretty obvious he was going to turn into a legit top6 player.

RoR had skills though, unlike Tebow. I cant believe you just made that comparison. Tebow could not throw a football. Thats a must have skill for a QB. RoR had the skills necessary to be very effective.

If RoR took the bridge deal he would get paid like Duchene this time around? What? That would be some childish petty crap pulled by the Avs if true.

Who said anything about Bergeron money? And how do you know thats what he wants? You have no idea what he is looking for. I really dont get why you guys need to keep doing this stuff, acting like he is wanting so much. We have no idea how much he is looking for. Absolutely none.

 

[RockLobster]

LeBrun said he thinks the goal for the Avs is still to keep chipping away with Newport and trying to get a long-term extension done. That's nothing new and it isn't surprising. Dater is the only one talking about a trade right now.

Dater and Boulding are the only ones blowing this out of proportion. The real insiders have had nothing to say. I said it yesterday but the Avs aren't going to crap their pants in fear over what some jerk said on the tv yesterday.

And in the process they're, in essence, pushing the idea (that is unconfirmed) that O'Reilly and his camp are being difficult again. They're both acting as if negotiations have been ongoing and are at an impasse now (like Subban vs. Montreal a couple of years ago or Pietrangelo vs. St Louis) but in reality no one other than the Avs (Sakic/Roy) and Newport know if true and serious negotiations have began.

 

[ColoradoSportsFan]

Thats what I read on the message boards. Not sure if true or not. I never took it at face value. Hence the reason i was asking and not stating it as fact.



5.5 is not elite money. Thats not even below Elite money. Thats what the role playing top 6 forwards should get.

I think you keep missing my point. Age does not matter to me. A youngster should not be downgraded simply because they have not proven themselves over and over again. Good hockey minds should be able to see which players are going to progress and which ones will not. And I expect the NHL is full of guys capable of doing so. The idea of forcing a guy like MacK into a bridge deal is just absurd. Is there anyone here who would not give him 5.5 right now after just one season in which he scored 63 points but had very inconsistent D (compared to Oreilly's "one good season" in which he had 55 points and elite level D- personally I would take O'Reilly's season, but I am fond of great defense, after all, Defense wins championships)? Same goes for Hertl, Kreider, Granlund Niederrieter and Palat. I feel extremely confident in saying they will be top6 forwards for many years to come and would have no problem giving them an early paycheck around 5.5 per year.

so now someone who produces a point every other game is someone with "no offense"? Hardly. Elite D + half a point per game, that sounds like the perfect 3rd line C and someone capable of filling in on the top 6.

5.5 does not seem like too much for a great 3d line C. Look at the kings and their depth down the middle. I would be perfect happy paying a great 3rd line C 5.5. And a great 3rd line C is the very least he would have turned out to be. Thats not taking into account that he improved past that half a point per game line the next season and led the team in points. Yeah, lets just forget that season all together, because it might have been a fluke. Pretty obvious he was going to turn into a legit top6 player.

RoR had skills though, unlike Tebow. I cant believe you just made that comparison. Tebow could not throw a football. Thats a must have skill for a QB. RoR had the skills necessary to be very effective.

If RoR took the bridge deal he would get paid like Duchene this time around? What? That would be some childish petty crap pulled by the Avs if true.

Who said anything about Bergeron money? And how do you know thats what he wants? You have no idea what he is looking for. I really dont get why you guys need to keep doing this stuff, acting like he is wanting so much. We have no idea how much he is looking for. Absolutely none.

Maybe not on short routes but dude did have some good touch on the long bombs.

 

[Avs_19]

Just wondering...when did Lebrun say this?

ESPN podcast. Burnside tweeted the link earlier today.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

You are not going to follow it... might as well not try. The Avs wanted him to take the same bridge deal as Duchene, and ROR scoffed at that notion. IMO Duchene had earned a bigger contract than ROR, even coming off a bad year.

The 5 year 17m deal, was obviously a low ball in order to push him to a bridge deal. It was simply offered to say if you want the years, this is what we will offer. If you want the money, take the bridge.

Of course you wont follow it if your so stuck on everyone doing the exact same thing Duchene does. Duchene could have taken a long term deal as well. Just because Duchene does something that does not mean everyone else has to follow suit. We are lucky to have a player like Duchene who is willing to sacrifice for the team. That doesnt mean everyone has to sacrifice in the same ways he does though. It would be awesome if that were the case, but it just wont realistically happen.

Hilarious, first you say the logic doesnt make any sense, then turn around and admit there was a low ball offer. Funny thing is, had we just given him the max years at 5.5 we would not have this potential problem we are having right now. Everyone would be thrilled that we have him for another 6 years at just 5.5. That would be another contract like Lando's and Duchene's and Johnson's that we look at today and say, "damn, good deal".

 

[AvsWraith]

How many people actually expect O'Reilly/Newport to move off that 6.5 number, especially when he knows that come July 1st, someone will offer sheet him and give him the number he wants. If O'Reilly/Newport was interested in taking a long-term deal at fair market value, don't you think it would've happened already? That 6.5 is out there though, Calgary was willing to pay it, and I can almost guarantee that O'Reilly/Newport believe that the Avs should be willing to pay it too if they really want to keep him. If not, they will get an offer sheet, and they know it.

 

[CobraAcesS]

How many people actually expect O'Reilly/Newport to move off that 6.5 number, especially when he knows that come July 1st, someone will offer sheet him and give him the number he wants. If O'Reilly/Newport was interested in taking a long-term deal at fair market value, don't you think it would've happened already? That 6.5 is out there though, Calgary was willing to pay it, and I can almost guarantee that O'Reilly/Newport believe that the Avs should be willing to pay it too if they really want to keep him. If not, they will get an offer sheet, and they know it.

Little too definitive with these statements IMO, you do realize that over the same five day period, every team in the league is going to be in free-agent frenzy over actual 'FREE' agents.

We matched the offer-sheet last time, why wouldn't we this time? Unless of course someone does it to the level that we get two first round picks plus a second and third. Even then we may match depending on the team.

It's possible he gets an offer-sheet, but by no means a lock, or even really that likely. If Newport is banking their strategy on that, they're dumb IMO.

 

[henchman21]

Of course you wont follow it if your so stuck on everyone doing the exact same thing Duchene does. Duchene could have taken a long term deal as well. Just because Duchene does something that does not mean everyone else has to follow suit. We are lucky to have a player like Duchene who is willing to sacrifice for the team. That doesnt mean everyone has to sacrifice in the same ways he does though. It would be awesome if that were the case, but it just wont realistically happen.

Hilarious, first you say the logic doesnt make any sense, then turn around and admit there was a low ball offer. Funny thing is, had we just given him the max years at 5.5 we would not have this potential problem we are having right now. Everyone would be thrilled that we have him for another 6 years at just 5.5. That would be another contract like Lando's and Duchene's and Johnson's that we look at today and say, "damn, good deal".

Duchene is not the first or last player to take a bridge deal. Players that perform highly for just one year of their ELCs will almost always get bridge deals, or be encouraged to do so. It is very common among GMs to push for bridge deals.

Hilarious how you don't understand the difference between being lowballed and encouraged to take a very good bridge deal.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

If O'Reilly/Newport was interested in taking a long-term deal at fair market value, don't you think it would've happened already?

Why hasnt Satz signed yet? Why havnt the vast majority of FA signed yet? Why was it mentioned that RoR would be taken care of around the draft awhile back, instead of "as soon as the season ends"? Why was it mentioned that talks with Staz would start on June 20th, instead of immediately?

I too am baffled as too why this stuff takes so long. But that just seems to be the process. Not sure how RoR is any different, timeline wise. Nobody else is getting attacked as some greedy ******* just because they have not signed yet.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Stop saying Calgary was willing to pay 6.5. They were not going to pay 6.5. They backloaded it to screw the Avs. If it was a 2 year $10 million deal broken down to 2 mil and 8 mil the second year are we going to all be sitting here arguing that some team was going to pay him 8 million? No.

Palat already signed a 3 year $10 million deal, btw.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Stop saying Calgary was willing to pay 6.5. They were not going to pay 6.5. They backloaded it to screw the Avs. If it was a 2 year $10 million deal broken down to 2 mil and 8 mil the second year are we going to all be sitting here arguing that some team was going to pay him 8 million? No.

Palat already signed a 3 year $10 million deal, btw.

But if we hadn't matched, wouldn't Calgary be sitting right where we are now, facing a 6.5 QO?

(assuming CBJ didn't get to claim him from waivers)

 

[tigervixxxen]

I guess so, they'd be in the same boat too. Doesn't mean they were willing to give a 6.5 AAV extension though.

 

[AvsWraith]

Stop saying Calgary was willing to pay 6.5. They were not going to pay 6.5. They backloaded it to screw the Avs. If it was a 2 year $10 million deal broken down to 2 mil and 8 mil the second year are we going to all be sitting here arguing that some team was going to pay him 8 million? No.

Palat already signed a 3 year $10 million deal, btw.

Did they? Or, did they really want ROR that much and thought the Avs might be unwilling to pay that much? I don't think a contract broken down as you described, 2 and 8, is realistic at all.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I guess so, they'd be in the same boat too. Doesn't mean they were willing to give a 6.5 AAV extension though.

Yeah, I think they'd be going on the same assumption we were before now. That O'Reilly might take less of an AAV over a long term contract.

Oh how stupid I was to think he'd be reasonable this time around.

I thought with the comments about 'not expecting that much' and about how he valued contract security (after the ankle injury), that he'd be more willing to be flexible on a long term offer.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Why not, how is that vastly different than 3.5 and 6.5?

That contract was not going to keep the Avs from matching. 10 million dollars? A couple draft picks in return?

 

[AvsWraith]

Why hasnt Satz signed yet? Why havnt the vast majority of FA signed yet? Why was it mentioned that RoR would be taken care of around the draft awhile back, instead of "as soon as the season ends"? Why was it mentioned that talks with Staz would start on June 20th, instead of immediately?

I too am baffled as too why this stuff takes so long. But that just seems to be the process. Not sure how RoR is any different, timeline wise. Nobody else is getting attacked as some greedy ******* just because they have not signed yet.

Was anyone else willing to go to Russia because they did not want a bridge contract?

 

[tigervixxxen]

O'Reilly is the only one we ever talk about how much they got in real dollars. The discussion about every other player in the NHL is about their AAV value. Just curious, is anyone aware of who the Av is getting the most in real dollars next year? It's not Duchene.

 

[AvsWraith]

Why not, how is that vastly different than 3.5 and 6.5?

Because when has that ever happened? Even if 8, which is like Sidney Crosby type of money, was the QO, even ROR would know that they would have no intention of actually qualifying him. 6.5 however, is what Patrice Bergeron makes, and I have no problem believing that ROR would think enough of his ability to put him on that level, and believing that Calgary thinking he is at that level as well.

 

[henchman21]

O'Reilly is the only one we ever talk about how much they got in real dollars. The discussion about every other player in the NHL is about their AAV value. Just curious, is anyone aware of who the Av is getting the most in real dollars next year? It's not Duchene.

Edit... read that wrong. See below... though it is 6.25.

 

[CoachBadkitten]

O'Reilly is the only one we ever talk about how much they got in real dollars. The discussion about every other player in the NHL is about their AAV value. Just curious, is anyone aware of who the Av is getting the most in real dollars next year? It's not Duchene.

Varlamov. 6.25M.

 

[bohlmeister]

O'Reilly is the only one we ever talk about how much they got in real dollars. The discussion about every other player in the NHL is about their AAV value. Just curious, is anyone aware of who the Av is getting the most in real dollars next year? It's not Duchene.

Varly is the answer. But ROR and Stastny, if they stay, will both be above that.