Opening Day roster taking shape

[supermann_98]

I am beyond irritated to see fck Vesey on the second line knowing that Robertson would be so damn good sniping from there.

I can't be the only one feeling this way?

Not a Vesey fan whatsoever. The way the guy stiffed Nashville to become a FA and every team out there wanted him and he choose the Rags, then it turned out he actually sucked so ended up on the crappy Sabres, now he comes here for cheap hoping a big year on a top 2 line will get himself a nice contract on another team next year ... and he gets dibs over Robertson who’s done nothing but worked his ass off basically all of 2020 to prepare himself for this year and for what? To be bypassed by a bust mercenary? I don’t like Vesey one bit tbh

 

[supermann_98]

People may disagree, but I’d rather see us move on from Dermott. Even if it’s shipping him out for a 2nd round pick. I just don’t think he brings any unique element to us. Rather see Sandin/Lehtonen full time because they can at least QB the PP2, and I predict our weakness will be secondary scoring & both of them will help there.

We gotta keep him to expose him to the Kraken, plus I don’t think they’d want to just give away years of developing the kid for a 2nd, only to watch him flourish on another team, they’d look pretty dumb if that were to happen

 

[ottomaddox]

I am beyond irritated to see fck Vesey on the second line knowing that Robertson would be so damn good sniping from there.

I can't be the only one feeling this way?

I am too. I can't believe that Vesey is being allowed top 6 opportunities with so few looks.

 

[TopChedder]

Not a Vesey fan whatsoever. The way the guy stiffed Nashville to become a FA and every team out there wanted him and he choose the Rags, then it turned out he actually sucked so ended up on the crappy Sabres, now he comes here for cheap hoping a big year on a top 2 line will get himself a nice contract on another team next year ... and he gets dibs over Robertson who’s done nothing but worked his ass off basically all of 2020 to prepare himself for this year and for what? To be bypassed by a bust mercenary? I don’t like Vesey one bit tbh

Sums up exactly how I feel about the situation.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Maple Leafs Notebook: Engvall misses cut, Dell staying with big club - Sportsnet.ca

Pierre Engvall won a Calder Cup under Keefe in 2018. He played in the majority of the Maple Leafs’ games last season as an NHL rookie and earned himself a two-year, $2.5-million contract extension. During this camp, he was the first man up when a forward from the main group fell to injury (Alexander Kerfoot, leg).

And yet, on Monday, Engvall was among the first was on a path back to the Marlies after a deep round of roster cuts.

“I expect Pierre to be better, to be honest,” Keefe said Saturday night, following the Blue and White’s intrasquad scrimmage. “I think it might be coming up on, if not past, the one-year anniversary of his last goal.”

Ouch.

That Engvall, 24, scored in the scrimmage didn’t matter. That a player whose role in the bigs will be a defensive, bottom-six role committed turnovers did.

Keefe wants a stronger physical commitment from Engvall, who’s more likely to rely on his smooth skating than his outsized six-foot-five, 214-pound frame. And, of course, the occasional offensive contribution can’t hurt. Engvall went pointless in the Columbus bubble series.

Engvall's last goal arrived on Feb. 22, when he scored on Carolina Hurricanes emergency backup David Ayers. He has one point in his past 25 games.

 

[TMLAM34]

Lehtonen bumped out of the top six. Dermott takes his spot paired with Bogo. I like the move and with Bogos injury history it’s probably only a matter of time Lehtonen slots back in.

 

[TMLAM34]

I don’t understand all the hate on Vesey already. He was a highly touted prospect coming out of college. He definitely had a down year in Buffalo but prior to that he had his best NHL season in New York to date. He’s big and isn’t afraid of going into the corners or to the net. Keefe is putting him in the best position to succeed and it’ll be on Vesey if he can’t maintain that spot.

 

[rumman]

Anyone else concerned about the additions of Thornton/Simmons/Bogo?I’ve seen aging vets sign in Toronto to end their careers too many times and it’s never worked out well. The only difference is these guys didn’t get the pre retirement overpayment the Leafs have handed out in the past. I hope they can contribute however in going to keep my expectations in check.

 

[justashadowof]

Lehtonen has to play early if he's got a longer term future here. He's a UFA at the end of the season. The team needs to know what they have and don't have in him. And it should be early games because those games are less challenging than 10 games in when the entire division is at full speed. I don't want him to bust (or any Leafs' player for that part) but at his age and experience we'll know pretty quickly whether he's got a chance at a future here.

 

[justashadowof]

Anyone else concerned about the additions of Thornton/Simmons/Bogo?I’ve seen aging vets sign in Toronto to end their careers too many times and it’s never worked out well. The only difference is these guys didn’t get the pre retirement overpayment the Leafs have handed out in the past. I hope they can contribute however in going to keep my expectations in check.

Bogo ain't that old and his usage will hopefully be controlled. I think he's the bargain FA with the highest likelihood of being a positive addition as 15 to 17 minute defender. Simmonds seems likely to withstand the rigours of another season but won't produce statistically. I'm more concerned with how using Thornton with the young stars will mess the rhythm of the offense.

 

[ShaneFalco]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/01/11/sheldon-keefe-on-mikko-lehtonen/

What went into the decisions behind the cuts today?
Keefe: First of all, I don’t know if any decision would be described as final. We are just getting started here. Whether there are guys who will be in the lineup on Wednesday or in the taxi squad or assigned directly to the Marlies, it is going to be a fluid situation. We are going to need a lot of people. Everybody is important and has a role to play.
We did have to make some decisions today, of course. Partially, it is just to get our numbers down in managing the roster.

You had Mikko Lehtonen moved around and Travis Dermott with Zach Bogosian today. Is that for today, or what is the thinking there?
Keefe: Reflecting on it and looking at last week for Mikko and the game the other day and how it has all gone for him, we like a lot of things about him. Certainly, on the power play, we feel he is ready to contribute there. We think there are other areas of his game that need a little bit more time. We don’t want to rush him into a situation that he is maybe not adjusted to here quite yet. We are going to take our time with that.

Where would you like to see Travis Dermott grow this season?
Keefe: He and I have had very direct talks. I would really like to see Travis latch onto his strengths. For me, there are three key areas: 1) Going back for the puck to start our breakouts; 2) Defensive zone puck pressure and creating separation and loose pucks to get us out of our own end that way; 3) His gap control. Those are three areas I would like to see him really excel at. If he focuses at those three, a lot of really positive things come into his game.
Over time, he can stack some other things on top of it, but just focusing on that and being reliable in those areas will be the key for me.

What have you seen from Jimmy Vesey so far? What does he bring and what would you like to see more of from him throughout the year?
Keefe: What I see from him is a guy who is a really good complementary player. We brought him in to complete a line in our top six — not unlike what we have seen from some of the guys who are no longer with us. We lost Andreas Johnsson. He is a guy who played a similar type of role and can move up and down the lineup, play on the power play, kill some penalties if we need him to, play with good players.
We like his ability to take on a role like that. He has scored in the league at even strength. He is a big guy who gets around the ice well. He has a really good stick. It is unbelievable how many times he gets his stick on a puck and creates a turnover. It is a real strength of his.
We just want to get him confident and feeling good. We also feel he can contribute for us on the penalty kill utilizing that good stick and some of his instincts and speed and length. He is just a good player for us that makes us a deeper team. He is an important guy.

 

[ToneDog]

Anyone else concerned about the additions of Thornton/Simmons/Bogo?I’ve seen aging vets sign in Toronto to end their careers too many times and it’s never worked out well. The only difference is these guys didn’t get the pre retirement overpayment the Leafs have handed out in the past. I hope they can contribute however in going to keep my expectations in check.

Not concerned much as we have quality players like Robertson waiting in the wings. I also see lots of load management happening as well so most will get their share of ice time. However I would be concerned if Simmonds sucks. Without him in the lineup we virtually have no other "heavy" players up front.

 

[Fogelhund]

Anyone else concerned about the additions of Thornton/Simmons/Bogo?I’ve seen aging vets sign in Toronto to end their careers too many times and it’s never worked out well. The only difference is these guys didn’t get the pre retirement overpayment the Leafs have handed out in the past. I hope they can contribute however in going to keep my expectations in check.

Simmonds is 32, Bogosian is 30. We've had plenty of guys join the Leafs at that age, and contribute well for the club, and these are hardly retirement contracts. Molgilny joined at age 32, Gary Roberts was 34.... Even Spezza contributed well last year, given the contract....

So, the answer is no, not concerned at all. These guys were Free Agent signings, so didn't trade a away a young player, and all three contracts are pretty cheap.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Maple Leafs Notebook: Engvall misses cut, Dell staying with big club - Sportsnet.ca

Pierre Engvall won a Calder Cup under Keefe in 2018. He played in the majority of the Maple Leafs’ games last season as an NHL rookie and earned himself a two-year, $2.5-million contract extension. During this camp, he was the first man up when a forward from the main group fell to injury (Alexander Kerfoot, leg).

And yet, on Monday, Engvall was among the first was on a path back to the Marlies after a deep round of roster cuts.

“I expect Pierre to be better, to be honest,” Keefe said Saturday night, following the Blue and White’s intrasquad scrimmage. “I think it might be coming up on, if not past, the one-year anniversary of his last goal.”

Ouch.

That Engvall, 24, scored in the scrimmage didn’t matter. That a player whose role in the bigs will be a defensive, bottom-six role committed turnovers did.

Keefe wants a stronger physical commitment from Engvall, who’s more likely to rely on his smooth skating than his outsized six-foot-five, 214-pound frame. And, of course, the occasional offensive contribution can’t hurt. Engvall went pointless in the Columbus bubble series.

Engvall's last goal arrived on Feb. 22, when he scored on Carolina Hurricanes emergency backup David Ayers. He has one point in his past 25 games.

The writing was on the wall for Engvall. He makes to much and doesn’t do enough for it. Plus he will be taking more of his contract home playing in the Ahl with no escrow. He probably doesn’t even care. I don’t see his circumstances getting better but if that guy started laying on the body and bulking up slowly to add 10-15 pounds he could do some damage on the forcheck and cycle. I think he’s done with us.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Anyone else concerned about the additions of Thornton/Simmons/Bogo?I’ve seen aging vets sign in Toronto to end their careers too many times and it’s never worked out well. The only difference is these guys didn’t get the pre retirement overpayment the Leafs have handed out in the past. I hope they can contribute however in going to keep my expectations in check.

It’s something to watch. I’m of no opinion on it yet. Simmonds says he is feeling better than he has for years. Thats good, i hope so. Bogosian fills a physical need when a series of games get heated. Thornton is Thornton, leadership and will likely put up more points this year to a significant degree over last. I don’t mind it initially and hope it stays positive.

 

[VanW27]

Simmonds is 32, Bogosian is 30. We've had plenty of guys join the Leafs at that age, and contribute well for the club, and these are hardly retirement contracts. Molgilny joined at age 32, Gary Roberts was 34.... Even Spezza contributed well last year, given the contract....

So, the answer is no, not concerned at all. These guys were Free Agent signings, so didn't trade a away a young player, and all three contracts are pretty cheap.

Bogosian - No concern, he can play his role. As long as expectations on him are realistic he'll be a fine addition.
Thornton - League min so no major concerns, at this point he's a depth scorer who provides leadership.
Simmonds - I have some concerns on Simmonds, he's been a terrible 5 on 5 player the last couple years, like shouldn't be in the NHL but he's provided some value on the PP. As a team our PP is pretty good already so adding Simmonds doesn't provide much for us there. Hopefully the time off helped him.

I do have general concerns about the types of veteran depth players we have in the forward lineup. Thornton, Simmonds, Vesey, Spezza. Slow, can't PK, generally poor defensive players. Not exactly guys that help out in the areas the team needs to get better at.

 

[Fogelhund]

Bogosian - No concern, he can play his role. As long as expectations on him are realistic he'll be a fine addition.
Thornton - League min so no major concerns, at this point he's a depth scorer who provides leadership.
Simmonds - I have some concerns on Simmonds, he's been a terrible 5 on 5 player the last couple years, like shouldn't be in the NHL but he's provided some value on the PP. As a team our PP is pretty good already so adding Simmonds doesn't provide much for us there. Hopefully the time off helped him.

I do have general concerns about the types of veteran depth players we have in the forward lineup. Thornton, Simmonds, Vesey, Spezza. Slow, can't PK, generally poor defensive players. Not exactly guys that help out in the areas the team needs to get better at.

The one to be concerned about, is Simmonds, you are hoping for a bounce back, and that he was held back by injury. Vesey isn't slow, and can PK. While Vesey and Spezza aren't know for their D, they weren't terrible last year. Simmonds was brought in for his toughness... an area the team needed to get better at. Thornton for his leadership, size, and cheap contract. It's a short season, you hope he has enough gas in the tank.

In the end, it's what you get, when your budget only allows you to shop at the discount store. If they don't work out, we have a ton of young and hungry depth.

 

[Ciao]

Anyone else concerned about the additions of Thornton/Simmons/Bogo?I’ve seen aging vets sign in Toronto to end their careers too many times and it’s never worked out well. The only difference is these guys didn’t get the pre retirement overpayment the Leafs have handed out in the past. I hope they can contribute however in going to keep my expectations in check.

Me too.

I'm rooting for all those guys, but was almost alarmed on Saturday evening when Joe looked like an oversized pylon in the o-zone. It looked like he was standing still while everyone around him was jumping about, checking each other, chasing pucks and going into the corners etc. He looked to me like Grandpa on the rocking chair minding the grandchildren.

I hope my first impression is badly mistaken, and that Jumbo has a few more gears in his transmission.

 

[VanW27]

The one to be concerned about, is Simmonds, you are hoping for a bounce back, and that he was held back by injury. Vesey isn't slow, and can PK. While Vesey and Spezza aren't know for their D, they weren't terrible last year. Simmonds was brought in for his toughness... an area the team needed to get better at. Thornton for his leadership, size, and cheap contract. It's a short season, you hope he has enough gas in the tank.

In the end, it's what you get, when your budget only allows you to shop at the discount store. If they don't work out, we have a ton of young and hungry depth.

My general feelings on it are there is a bit of a mismatch between finding the best players and finding the best fit, and sometimes you're better off with the lesser player who can fill a role.

For example:

You needs ~10 minutes from your 4C a game.

Spezza was a terrific 4C by every measure you can think of last year, but he can't PK and isn't reliable defensively. The coach needs to find situations to get the best use out of their players and for Spezza this is soft offensive zone matchups and PP time. He did great with this time but this usage isn't something I value (personal opinion), we have lots of guys who can play soft offensive minutes and 2nd PP duty. Your taking minutes from them to get Spezza the 10 minutes you need from your 4C.

When you have a 4C who PKs and takes defensive zone matchups those are minutes you know how you'll allocate, and 10 hard minutes you can take off the hands of your top players so they can (hopefully) feast on minutes you would have given Spezza.

 

[IPS]

My general feelings on it are there is a bit of a mismatch between finding the best players and finding the best fit, and sometimes you're better off with the lesser player who can fill a role.

For example:

You needs ~10 minutes from your 4C a game.

Spezza was a terrific 4C by every measure you can think of last year, but he can't PK and isn't reliable defensively. The coach needs to find situations to get the best use out of their players and for Spezza this is soft offensive zone matchups and PP time. He did great with this time but this usage isn't something I value (personal opinion), we have lots of guys who can play soft offensive minutes and 2nd PP duty. Your taking minutes from them to get Spezza the 10 minutes you need from your 4C.

When you have a 4C who PKs and takes defensive zone matchups those are minutes you know how you'll allocate, and 10 hard minutes you can take off the hands of your top players so they can (hopefully) feast on minutes you would have given Spezza.

I don't hate Spezza but man, why the f*** can't Dubas just find a penalty-killing 4C who's better at defending, we need that a hell of a lot more than we need Spezza. Some things about Dubas you really cant help but wonder. I'm sick of being the only team in the league without a center that's good at PK'ing.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't hate Spezza but man, why the f*** can't Dubas just find a penalty-killing 4C who's better at defending, we need that a hell of a lot more than we need Spezza. Some things about Dubas you really cant help but wonder. I'm sick of being the only team in the league without a center that's good at PK'ing.

CAP $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. It is very simple. It was determined that fixing da defense was more important on a relative basis. It is da CBA nothing more nothing less and bad contract negotiation by Dubie on certain contracts.

 

[IPS]

CAP $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. It is very simple. It was determined that fixing da defense was more important on a relative basis. It is da CBA nothing more nothing less and bad contract negotiation by Dubie on certain contracts.

But you can find good PK'ing 4C's easily and cheap if you really look. Kerfoot never killed a penalty in the NHL, and we had to try and train him to be a PK'er in the Columbus series. Like I said I don't mind Spezza but he's just not needed at all.. you look at the 3 lines above the 4th line and somehow Dubas concludes we need an offense-first center who can't PK who needs sheltering for a 4C?

 

[janesy12]

I don’t understand all the hate on Vesey already. He was a highly touted prospect coming out of college. He definitely had a down year in Buffalo but prior to that he had his best NHL season in New York to date. He’s big and isn’t afraid of going into the corners or to the net. Keefe is putting him in the best position to succeed and it’ll be on Vesey if he can’t maintain that spot.

Did not know he was as big as he is. Seems like he moves well for his size.

 

[Fogelhund]

My general feelings on it are there is a bit of a mismatch between finding the best players and finding the best fit, and sometimes you're better off with the lesser player who can fill a role.

For example:

You needs ~10 minutes from your 4C a game.

Spezza was a terrific 4C by every measure you can think of last year, but he can't PK and isn't reliable defensively. The coach needs to find situations to get the best use out of their players and for Spezza this is soft offensive zone matchups and PP time. He did great with this time but this usage isn't something I value (personal opinion), we have lots of guys who can play soft offensive minutes and 2nd PP duty. Your taking minutes from them to get Spezza the 10 minutes you need from your 4C.

When you have a 4C who PKs and takes defensive zone matchups those are minutes you know how you'll allocate, and 10 hard minutes you can take off the hands of your top players so they can (hopefully) feast on minutes you would have given Spezza.

Some of this is a source of frustration for me. Gauthier had all the physical makings, to be a great 4C. Size, ability, but softer mentally than Charmin, and never seemed to show progress in his game. He did a lot of things right, great at faceoffs, and strong defensively, with the puck generally not going in our net very often, when he was on the ice. But at 6'5", you need to hit people like you mean it once in a while. He just couldn't find the next gear acceleration wise, and we'll never know if he didn't work hard enough for that, or just doesn't have it in him. He was very good at the PK at the AHL level, but didn't quite have enough acceleration at the NHL level to be effective... he took a lot of faceoffs for us on the PK, and then got off the ice. What Goat should have been, is exactly what we need. I agree it was time to move on from him, but what he should have been, is exactly what you speak of.

Noting, Spezza wasn't really sheltered last year, with 55% D zone starts, and GA/60 in the top half of the team... so not quite the black hole. But, he isn't a proto 4C for sure.

No question, 4C is a weak point on this team. One guy I would have loved to have on this team, would have been Derek Grant. Ideal 4C $1.5 mil per is pretty rich for that role though, at least for us.. sure, we could make the argument, that perhaps that money would have been better spent on a Grant, than Simmonds. Not very physical, but very good defensively still, is Koivu. Cedric Paquette is fairly physical, good defensively, great in the dot, and very good on the PK as well... but the $1.65 mil per, that Ottawa spent on him, is a bit too much for a 4C. Nic Dowd is a good value contract, but he resigned in Washington.

 

[ottomaddox]

Simmonds is 32, Bogosian is 30. We've had plenty of guys join the Leafs at that age, and contribute well for the club, and these are hardly retirement contracts. Molgilny joined at age 32, Gary Roberts was 34.... Even Spezza contributed well last year, given the contract....

So, the answer is no, not concerned at all. These guys were Free Agent signings, so didn't trade a away a young player, and all three contracts are pretty cheap.

Hi5