OOT scoreboard 2025 playoff edition

[Hisch13r]

Corey Perry’s like simultaneously one of the greatest winners and biggest losers in the history of the sport. He’s won nearly everything there is to win but also losing potentially 5 Cup finals in a 6 year span would be f***ing miserable.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I'm not ignoring factors at all. I'm saying taxes are a factor, a significant one, among many other factors.

Why would pocketing more money not be a significant factor, when we all know damn well the driving force money is?

Because the extra amount you’re pocketing is a not as significant as these narrative pushers are making it seem, and there’s no way to even know exactly how much it is beforehand anyway. You can only use it as a factor generally speaking. “I’ll probably make a bit more based on the tax situation but I don’t really know exactly how much and it’s not likely to be a huge amount.” Do you realize that there are places in the US where your money goes even further than in no income tax states?

But you’ve clearly bought into this narrative so it doesn’t seem you’re willing to listen otherwise.

 

[devilsblood]

Because the extra amount you’re pocketing is a not as significant as these narrative pushers are making it seem, and there’s no way to even know exactly how much it is beforehand anyway. You can only use it as a factor generally speaking. “I’ll probably make a bit more based on the tax situation but I don’t really know exactly how much and it’s not likely to be a huge amount.” Do you realize that there are places in the US where your money goes even further than in no income tax states?

But you’ve clearly bought into this narrative so it doesn’t seem you’re willing to listen otherwise.

I didn't buy into a narrative as much as the logic is crystal clear.

Florida, between lack of income tax and cheaper property taxes, is a much cheaper place to live then the tri state area. Anyone who lives in NJ or moreso NYC knows this. Anyone who lives here and is denying it is denying the obvious.

I imagine the same goes for property taxes in Canada as well.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I didn't buy into a narrative as much as the logic is crystal clear.

Florida, between lack of income tax and cheaper property taxes, is a much cheaper place to live then the tri state area. Anyone who lives in NJ or moreso NYC knows this. Anyone who lives here and is denying it is denying the obvious.

I imagine the same goes for property taxes in Canada as well.

It’s cheaper to live in North Carolina than it is to live in Florida, despite the tax income difference. Why is there no talk about this being a huge advantage for the hurricanes? Tennessee has no income tax AND is cheaper overall than Florida. Again, why is there no hubbub about how this allows the predators to get guys cheap?

Because it’s easier to make up a narrative about something like income tax that appears cut and dry on the surface, during a time when some of the best teams happen to be in places with no income tax. You’re just running with it, it’s not based on the reality.

 

[BostonDevil]

I didn't buy into a narrative as much as the logic is crystal clear.

Florida, between lack of income tax and cheaper property taxes, is a much cheaper place to live then the tri state area. Anyone who lives in NJ or moreso NYC knows this. Anyone who lives here and is denying it is denying the obvious.

I imagine the same goes for property taxes in Canada as well.

This sort of makes my point. For about the first 30 years of the franchise, Florida has never been able to lure any real impact players. The weather, lower cost of living and zero income tax, have been there since day one. How much has it mattered?

I just think that you/others are making it sound like it's a driving force behind every contract that's signed in the league, while me/others are discounting the importance.

Cool discussion that pops up every now and then but it's probably never going to amount to anything since, while you can measure the amount of taxes, you can't measure how it determines player movement.

 

[devilsblood]

This sort of makes my point. For about the first 30 years of the franchise, Florida has never been able to lure any real impact players. The weather, lower cost of living and zero income tax, have been there since day one. How much has it mattered?

I just think that you/others are making it sound like it's a driving force behind every contract that's signed in the league, while me/others are discounting the importance.

Cool discussion that pops up every now and then but it's probably never going to amount to anything since, while you can measure the amount of taxes, you can't measure how it determines player movement.

As I've said, I think it's a factor, even a significant one for certain players, but it's not the only factor.

I'm not advocating the league should do anything about it either, as teams from high tax cities often have other advantages, but is it a thing? I don't see how anyone can look at the highest paid players in the league list and think it's not.

 

[devilsblood]

It’s cheaper to live in North Carolina than it is to live in Florida, despite the tax income difference. Why is there no talk about this being a huge advantage for the hurricanes? Tennessee has no income tax AND is cheaper overall than Florida. Again, why is there no hubbub about how this allows the predators to get guys cheap?

Because it’s easier to make up a narrative about something like income tax that appears cut and dry on the surface, during a time when some of the best teams happen to be in places with no income tax. You’re just running with it, it’s not based on the reality.

Well, actually it is 100% based on reality.

The question is how much it weighs into players decisions.

It is kind of funny with you mentioning Tennessee that Stamkos jumped from a Florida team to Nashville. Marchessault also went from a no state income tax state to another, yet cheaper to live in, no state income tax state. Does it prove the point? No, but it doesn't hurt. Especially if the likes of NJ are offering less money on top of having that money taxed at a higher rate.

 

[Forge]

It’s cheaper to live in North Carolina than it is to live in Florida, despite the tax income difference. Why is there no talk about this being a huge advantage for the hurricanes? Tennessee has no income tax AND is cheaper overall than Florida. Again, why is there no hubbub about how this allows the predators to get guys cheap?

Because it’s easier to make up a narrative about something like income tax that appears cut and dry on the surface, during a time when some of the best teams happen to be in places with no income tax. You’re just running with it, it’s not based on the reality.

Also, as someone who actually lives in Vegas, we are getting to a point where we are just California Jr in terms of cost of living. We don't have state income tax, but not a cheap place to live.

 

[Andre Palot]

Corey Perry’s like simultaneously one of the greatest winners and biggest losers in the history of the sport. He’s won nearly everything there is to win but also losing potentially 5 Cup finals in a 6 year span would be f***ing miserable.

The human equivalent of the 1990s Buffalo Bills

 

[guitarguyvic]

As I've said, I think it's a factor, even a significant one for certain players, but it's not the only factor.

You can say this about just about anything else that gets factored in - weather, entertainment, proximity to family, status of the franchise, overall cost of living, etc etc etc.

I'm not advocating the league should do anything about it either, as teams from high tax cities often have other advantages,

At this point you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. The whole reason this is a discussion is because talking heads are singling out income tax specifically as a distinct measurable advantage over other factors and sometimes framing it as “unfair”, when in reality it’s no more quantifiable or significant than any other factor.

but is it a thing? I don't see how anyone can look at the highest paid players in the league list and think it's not.

You’re engaging in a logical fallacy here by continuing to ignore that there are a multitude of factors contributing to players in those markets being paid more right now. There is no evidence to suggest that income tax is driving prices up there more than cold weather, overall cost of living, or those franchises simply being more willing to pay big money for big time players when others may not be willing to.

No one is arguing that players don’t factor it in at all. We are arguing that it’s not noteworthy or more significant than any other factor.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Well, actually it is 100% based on reality.

The question is how much it weighs into players decisions.

It is kind of funny with you mentioning Tennessee that Stamkos jumped from a Florida team to Nashville. Marchessault also went from a no state income tax state to another, yet cheaper to live in, no state income tax state. Does it prove the point? No, but it doesn't hurt. Especially if the likes of NJ are offering less money on top of having that money taxed at a higher rate.

That Preds team was supposed to be a Stanley Cup contender and turned into one of the biggest disappointments of the seasons and probably their biggest disappointment in the history of that team. The money was definitely a factor but it certainly wasn't just him originally only going there for a payday.

 

[glenwo2]

Corey Perry’s like simultaneously one of the greatest winners and biggest losers in the history of the sport. He’s won nearly everything there is to win but also losing potentially 5 Cup finals in a 6 year span would be f***ing miserable.

He might as well retire if the Oilers don't get it done here.

In fact, I insist he retire regardless because f*ck him.

 

[JrFischer54]

That is what's going on but that argument is the income tax, which is only one economic factor.

They guy signs with the Panthers has the opportunity for 6 endorsement deals that may pay him 200K total. The guy signs with the Leafs has the opportunity for 46 endorsement deals that pay him 200K each.

There's advantages and disadvantages to all places. If what I've been hearing about this is correct, income tax payment is way down the list of player priorities and is typically used by Canadian media as an excuse. I hear them complain about the tax thing almost as much as I hear them brag about the
"playing near home thing". The fact is that the allure of home (Tavares vs. Stamkos) means as little as the income tax thing (Stamkos vs Tavares).

i get the other aspects of living one place to another ways to make up money or the dollar goes further some places then others. it still doesn't change that even if minimal some teams have an advantage with contracts being a little cheaper then other teams. i'm not even sure what the league could do end of the day nothing will really change.

 

[MasterofGrond]

You're never going to make markets equally appealing across all axes. And I promise you, the other factors involved are making significantly more of a difference than the few percentage points of tax differences do between tax and no-tax states, regardless of what some people are claiming.

it's just a real convenient excuse for sucking at your job.

 

[JrFischer54]

Panarin wanted to play in NYC, but then signed a huge deal. Similar to Tavares in Toronto, sure he wanted to play there but there is no hometown discount going on.

Tkachuk wanted to play in Florida and signed a relatively cheap deal. $2mil less a year then Panarin. $1mil less then Huberdeau.

of course its up to the player to sign the deals they want to sign but does he take 2 million less becuase hes getting a better tax break so it helps the panthers out to build a better roster? like said tkachuk picked the rangers instead would it have been for the same 9 million or would it have been for more? assuming the rangers could afford the cap hit

 

[Davegarri]

of course its up to the player to sign the deals they want to sign but does he take 2 million less becuase hes getting a better tax break so it helps the panthers out to build a better roster? like said tkachuk picked the rangers instead would it have been for the same 9 million or would it have been for more? assuming the rangers could afford the cap hit

He would've taken 8 because the privilege of playing in front of the blue shirt faithful at the world's most famous arena as a member of the blue shirt brotherhood is worth more than money. That privilege is something we all dream of!!

 

[My3Sons]

He would've taken 8 because the privilege of playing in front of the blue shirt faithful at the world's most famous arena as a member of the blue shirt brotherhood is worth more than money. That privilege is something we all dream of!!

I'm amazed the Rangers organization does not understand how the players are using them for everything except hockey.

 

[Devils731]

You're never going to make markets equally appealing across all axes. And I promise you, the other factors involved are making significantly more of a difference than the few percentage points of tax differences do between tax and no-tax states, regardless of what some people are claiming.

it's just a real convenient excuse for sucking at your job.

This is true but also some things are out of the NHL hands and some are not.

The NHL can’t change crappy Winnipeg weather but it did ensure all contracts were in US dollars to normalize US-CAN dollars and standardize contracts away from currency fluctuations concerns.

When we say “it’s only a few percentage points, so who cares”, on a $100 million cap, that’s an extra $3 million to play with. That’s not make or break but it’s also not nothing. That changes a league minimum 3rd liner into a good third liner or a supporting top 6 wing into an all-star top 6 wing.

I don’t think the league will do anything about the tax differences but it is an advantage that low to no tax state teams have. Since it’s a math and currency advantage, it is something the league could try to address, unlike weather, but I think any potential fixes are likely worse or more onerous than the problem.

The MLS has a bunch of crazy cap rules revolving around competitiveness and I think it actively degrades fan enjoyment. I think any “tax rule” put in place would probably annoy fans more than any new enjoyment from partially leveling the playing field.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Yeah it’s my belief as a general rule, the more you try to rules-lawyer things, the worse the product becomes. Be that on the ice or behind the scenes. I understand leagues and contracts and everything else are complex and are going to be opaque regardless of what you do, but the less obvious you make it the more you lose folks, imo, and being like "actually these teams get 2.5% more cap space" would be moronic

 

[Edmonton East]

Florida 5v5 regular season % of hits given (vs opp): 57%, 1st in league.

They are 8-2 this playoffs vs the 31st (TBL) and 29th (CAR) teams. 4-3 vs the only other physical team they played, the 7th ranked Leafs.

The Oilers were 30th....and Hyman was one of their more physical playoff guys this year. Also the Oilers haven't played a physical team yet. They've beaten the 21st, 28th, and 32nd hit ranked teams.

Last year Florida was 11th. And the only team that gave them a run for their money was the Rangers who ranked 5th. Every game was close af that series. Rags easily could have won game 4 in OT and been up 3 to 1. Once again, they beat the bottom of the barrel % hit teams with ease....aside from the Oilers....who they almost beat with ease.

Small sample size obviously and not saying anything definitive (duh). Also haven't bothered going back further. But at a high level, the data/observation is interesting at the very least.

 

[guitarguyvic]

This is true but also some things are out of the NHL hands and some are not.

The NHL can’t change crappy Winnipeg weather but it did ensure all contracts were in US dollars to normalize US-CAN dollars and standardize contracts away from currency fluctuations concerns.

When we say “it’s only a few percentage points, so who cares”, on a $100 million cap, that’s an extra $3 million to play with. That’s not make or break but it’s also not nothing. That changes a league minimum 3rd liner into a good third liner or a supporting top 6 wing into an all-star top 6 wing.

I don’t think the league will do anything about the tax differences but it is an advantage that low to no tax state teams have. Since it’s a math and currency advantage, it is something the league could try to address, unlike weather, but I think any potential fixes are likely worse or more onerous than the problem.

The MLS has a bunch of crazy cap rules revolving around competitiveness and I think it actively degrades fan enjoyment. I think any “tax rule” put in place would probably annoy fans more than any new enjoyment from partially leveling the playing field.

If someone wants to genuinely level the playing field financially, why would we only be looking at taxes? Unlike taxes, the cost of living can be (and alrrady is) measured reliably via an index that corporations in many industries already use to adjust salary ranges for their employees based on location. That would be the most reliable way to address supposedly unfair financial advantages.

Of course, none of the talking heads are proposing that, because they are mainly interested in pushing a convenient narrative that drums up controversy/clicks/excuses that align with their preconceived interests/notions, not a desire to create fairness in the league. It’s clear they’ve done a good job of getting many fans/posters to buy into it.

 

[JrFischer54]

Oh the horror of the best player in the world getting even more hype after winning a Cup! I don't think we'll survive.

i'm just a hater man!

 

[Guttersniped]

I’m guessing the currency variation of thr US and Canada may have more impact than state taxes on player decisions

Everyone gets paid in US dollars.

 

[Devils731]

This zone exit chart is ridiculous for Quinn.

 

[NJDfan86]

This zone exit chart is ridiculous for Quinn.

Im a fan of “other Elias Peterson” denomination lol