OOT scoreboard 2025 playoff edition

[My3Sons]

Panthers want to sign a player for 5 million the guys take home after taxes is 3.5 million the leafs want to sign the same guy but to get the same take home his contract has to be 5.8 (these are all examples). Is that not what is going on ?

Maybe on a simplistic level but there are various elements that go beyond the surface analysis. For example my firm started paying my health insurance and it reduced our taxes by a pretty significant amount. Just shuffle some money around and you get various tax impacts. For sophisticated accountants who are able to manipulate large sums and spend money to save money they can probably level the playing field to a large degree

 

[glenwo2]

I know some are rooting for the Panthers.

I don't root for any team that has Tkachuk on it (even though I do respect his game).

At the same time, It's going to be hard for me to root for the Oilers, considering they have Corey Douchebag on it.

BUT...they do have RICO and I would like to see him and McDavid win one so I will hold my nose and root for them (with Corey being the main reason I'm holding my nose)

 

[NJDevs26]

At least it’s a relief to have individual players that are loathsome win as opposed to an entire team and fanbase that are loathsome winning.

 

[JrFischer54]

I know some are rooting for the Panthers.

I don't root for any team that has Tkachuk on it (even though I do respect his game).

At the same time, It's going to be hard for me to root for the Oilers, considering they have Corey Douchebag on it.

BUT...they do have RICO and I would like to see him and McDavid win one so I will hold my nose and root for them (with Corey being the main reason I'm holding my nose)

Forget that man panthers all the way I say. The mcdavid hype while warranted now will be in overdrive x100000 with a win

 

[JrFischer54]

Maybe on a simplistic level but there are various elements that go beyond the surface analysis. For example my firm started paying my health insurance and it reduced our taxes by a pretty significant amount. Just shuffle some money around and you get various tax impacts. For sophisticated accountants who are able to manipulate large sums and spend money to save money they can probably level the playing field to a large degree

I agree with what you’re saying but the cap hit will still be lower compared to other teams. Now I don’t think it moves the needle with big name players but you can carve out more space I think with the bottom tier guys that goes a long way in helping keep a big name player

 

[njdevils1982]

panthaters unite!

 

[MadDevil]

Forget that man panthers all the way I say. The mcdavid hype while warranted now will be in overdrive x100000 with a win

Oh the horror of the best player in the world getting even more hype after winning a Cup! I don't think we'll survive.

 

[Bleedred]

Feels like there were more 5 gamer’s this year than most.

Every series Carolina appeared in ended in 5.

Both the Capitals rounds ended in 5.

Edmonton’s last two rounds ended in 5.

Two of the Panthers rounds ended in 5.

 

[BostonDevil]

Panthers want to sign a player for 5 million the guys take home after taxes is 3.5 million the leafs want to sign the same guy but to get the same take home his contract has to be 5.8 (these are all examples). Is that not what is going on ?

That is what's going on but that argument is the income tax, which is only one economic factor.

They guy signs with the Panthers has the opportunity for 6 endorsement deals that may pay him 200K total. The guy signs with the Leafs has the opportunity for 46 endorsement deals that pay him 200K each.

There's advantages and disadvantages to all places. If what I've been hearing about this is correct, income tax payment is way down the list of player priorities and is typically used by Canadian media as an excuse. I hear them complain about the tax thing almost as much as I hear them brag about the
"playing near home thing". The fact is that the allure of home (Tavares vs. Stamkos) means as little as the income tax thing (Stamkos vs Tavares).

 

[guitarguyvic]

All the evidence you need that income tax is not an X factor is the fact that this doesn’t come up in any way shape or form in the other major North American leagues.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Forget that man panthers all the way I say. The mcdavid hype while warranted now will be in overdrive x100000 with a win

As it should be. He is so far ahead of his peers which is insane in this NHL where essentially everyone is elite. He absolutely should get a Cup and the hype is absolutely deserved.

 

[Triumph]

All the evidence you need that income tax is not an X factor is the fact that this doesn’t come up in any way shape or form in the other major North American leagues.

Other North American leagues have a total of 2 Canadian teams, the NHL has 7. I definitely think it is overblown, but I don't think it's an accident how much Canadian teams have to pay for talent, even though one would think them being paid in American dollars should cancel that out.

 

[jkrdevil]

Other North American leagues have a total of 2 Canadian teams, the NHL has 7. I definitely think it is overblown, but I don't think it's an accident how much Canadian teams have to pay for talent, even though one would think them being paid in American dollars should cancel that out.

I think that is more a weather, lifestyle, media attention thing than tax.

 

[Devils731]

Other North American leagues have a total of 2 Canadian teams, the NHL has 7. I definitely think it is overblown, but I don't think it's an accident how much Canadian teams have to pay for talent, even though one would think them being paid in American dollars should cancel that out.

I wonder if it’s also because the NHL has the least flexibility in its cap system. Contract value and fighting for every cent matters more in the NHL than any of the other major sports.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Other North American leagues have a total of 2 Canadian teams, the NHL has 7. I definitely think it is overblown, but I don't think it's an accident how much Canadian teams have to pay for talent, even though one would think them being paid in American dollars should cancel that out.

We are talking specifically about the supposed advantage in no income tax states. Canada may very well cost player’s more in taxes than anywhere in the US, not just the no income tax states, which might be impacting what you’re talking about. If the no income tax state advantage was that significant, we would see that manifest in the other leagues where they have teams in no income tax states just like the nhl. You’re also ignoring the many other non-tax incentives players may have for taking less in the states vs Canada.

 

[Guttersniped]

Regarding local taxes they are multi-layered issues. Arent all players are subject to the same taxes for the away games? Also you have property taxes if you buy a house and of course sales taxes as well. Local taxes are generally deductible from federal taxes if my memory is correct and players that are from outside the US may have other considerations as well. Also there are strategies people do to insulate themselves from local taxes. I’ve heard two NBA agents interviewed who minimized the issue saying it can be dealt with enough to where it is not a deciding factor for them. As a practical matter how many big UFAs are out there? It’s not like a player coming off his ELC is going to leave because of taxes. My guess is it is a bigger consideration for guys who have never made big money who are on the back 9 of a career.

“Arent all players are subject to the same taxes for the away games?”

No, players are taxed in every state they play in so any state tax benefits only applies to home games.

If you want to learn more:

https://puckpedia.com/news/understanding-how-nhl-players-are-taxed

Puckpedia also has a Tax Calculator that allows you to compare tax costs in different states.

https://puckpedia.com/tax-calculator

 

[NJDevs26]

Not to mention the Florida owners in baseball are cheap asses so they're not even in the same stratosphere of payroll as the big markets. And yes no cap certainly helps the big markets there. The NFL has a cap but it's far more fungible than the NHL IR loophole and the only guaranteed money is the signing bonuses. The NBA's soft cap is designed to get you to keep your own players with the ability to overpay them and go over the cap.

Comparing other sports to the NHL is a bit of a futile exercise because the NHL has by far the hardest (and lowest) cap.

 

[guitarguyvic]

“Arent all players are subject to the same taxes for the away games?”

No, players are taxed in every state they play in so any state tax benefits only applies to home games.

If you want to learn more:

https://puckpedia.com/news/understanding-how-nhl-players-are-taxed

Puckpedia also has a Tax Calculator that allows you to compare tax costs in different states.

https://puckpedia.com/tax-calculator

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That site does a great job explaining the complexity of the tax situation, and makes a perfect case for why it’s virtually impossible to quantify any advantage of no income tax states…but then it provides a calculator which completely ignores all those factors and nuances.

 

[MachoDiablo]

I wouldn't be totally averse to addressing the SALT issue in some way, but I'm only interested in hearing it if it ends up in higher wages for the players, not anything that'll allow owners to pocket even more couch cushion change. All sports owners can basically go to hell.

Looking back at the last game of the WCF, god, I wanted to defend DeBoer on pulling Ott early, and all the guy had to say was some variation of "we gave up two goals on our first two shots and looked dead out of the gate in a do-or-die game, they needed a kick in the ass and that's the most blatant method available to me"...but then he said all that stuff after the game? Makes him come across like he knows he's a dead man walking, so he just said whatever off the top of his head, absolutely baffling to throw a franchise goalie under the bus like that.

 

[My3Sons]

“Arent all players are subject to the same taxes for the away games?”

No, players are taxed in every state they play in so any state tax benefits only applies to home games.

If you want to learn more:

https://puckpedia.com/news/understanding-how-nhl-players-are-taxed

Puckpedia also has a Tax Calculator that allows you to compare tax costs in different states.

https://puckpedia.com/tax-calculator

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Ok I was off by not taking the home state and the away schedule into account. Thanks for clarifying that. But even the how things are taxed stuff is subject to so much potential manipulation you have to run it through the high end accounting treatment to really know the impact. I’m guessing the fancy agencies have their tax strategist on staff and they run any contract through their planning to see what the net really is

 

[The 29th Pick]

Barry Trotz said the no state income tax is a big advantage, if it really is an advantage for these states maybe they could try a floating cap? No income states have a hard 50 million cap and teams like Montreal (with high state tax) can go over the cap by X%

 

[My3Sons]

Barry Trotz said the no state income tax is a big advantage, if it really is an advantage for these states maybe they could try a floating cap? No income states have a hard 50 million cap and teams like Montreal (with high state tax) can go over the cap by X%

I’m guessing the currency variation of thr US and Canada may have more impact than state taxes on player decisions

 

[The 29th Pick]

I’m guessing the currency variation of thr US and Canada may have more impact than state taxes on player decisions

another curve-ball lol

 

[The 29th Pick]

Look, the Rangers have no trouble signing free agents and NYC is tax-hell, so it's basically where a player WANTS to play right?, I remember when Randy McKay got his new deal at 2 million plus a year and he said, I'm making plenty of money doing the thing I love, playing hockey...

 

[jkrdevil]

Not to mention the Florida owners in baseball are cheap asses so they're not even in the same stratosphere of payroll as the big markets. And yes no cap certainly helps the big markets there. The NFL has a cap but it's far more fungible than the NHL IR loophole and the only guaranteed money is the signing bonuses. The NBA's soft cap is designed to get you to keep your own players with the ability to overpay them and go over the cap.

Comparing other sports to the NHL is a bit of a futile exercise because the NHL has by far the hardest (and lowest) cap.

If you want to get paid in baseball you have to go to one of 5 teams in the league.

Florida is a no tax state, but the Orlando Magic have never been able to entice free agents.