On Paper the Best Roster Since...

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Can you elaborate more on this? I only started watching the wings during the 2012 playoffs.

While it's normal for teams to sort of ebb and flow and it is anomalous that the red wings have made the playoffs for as long as they have, our drafting wasn't very good in the mid 2000's, Ken Holland wouldn't trade a roster player for a decade, made questionable signings and deadline trades, and hoarded garbage. We're definitely in a better place now than we were in 2011, that is for sure. And it's mainly because our drafting improved in the late 2000's early 2010's.

 

[Roy S]

Big drop off from that team, but its the best since 09. 11-12 was really top heavy w/o much quality depth.

The Wings are a top pairing D away from being a top contender. Hopefully Calgary flops and Giordano is traded at the deadline.

 

[Frk It]

Big drop off from that team, but its the best since 09. 11-12 was really top heavy w/o much quality depth.

The Wings are a top pairing D away from being a top contender. Hopefully Calgary flops and Giordano is traded at the deadline.

Can Giordano play the right side?

We really, really need a RD for the top pair.

Interesting you say that this team is better than the 11-12 team but that the current team needs a top pairing D. Lidstrom was so much better even at 41 than anything we have now.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Can Giordano play the right side?

We really, really need a RD for the top pair.

Interesting you say that this team is better than the 11-12 team but that the current team needs a top pairing D. Lidstrom was so much better even at 41 than anything we have now.

What about the other 22 guys?

 

[Frk It]

What about the other 22 guys?

I think that team was better. I've already said as much in this thread.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Can Giordano play the right side?

We really, really need a RD for the top pair.

Interesting you say that this team is better than the 11-12 team but that the current team needs a top pairing D. Lidstrom was so much better even at 41 than anything we have now.

In Gio's case, it does not matter. He'd be the best defenseman on the team by a landslide.

 

[Frk It]

In Gio's case, it does not matter. He'd be the best defenseman on the team by a landslide.

Gio is a stud, but it kind of does matter.

Gio, Kronwall, and Dekeyser all can't play the right side. That leaves a pretty lousy partner for Gio, in which case we still have 1/2 of our top pair being a mess. Cause for whatever reason we think Ericsson is more of a #1 RD than Green.

 

[doublejack]

Mrazek, Jurco, Pulkinnen, Sheahan, Nyquist, and Tatar should all be better this year than they were last year. Even Glendening for that matter. Whether that hope comes true is of course yet to be seen. But if it does occur, and if vets including Green and Richards don't drop off TOO badly, then our team is vastly improved. Naturally you can call that an optimistic prediction if you like, but that just depends on what probabilities you assign to all these good things happening. I don't think there's a right answer until we actually see it happen.

Plus I don't think there's a reason to believe Datsyuk will miss any more of the season than he usually does.

Lastly, those other waiver exempt prospects failing to make the team might be the likely scenario but it's certainly not set in stone. They could play themselves onto the roster or someone could play himself off it.

The downside of keeping the prospects in the AHL so long is that by the time they hit the NHL they are close to finished products. I don't expect that group of players, outside of perhaps Pulkinnen and Sheahan, to improve very much. Maybe the others will improve a little, but I don't see Nyquist turning into a 40 goal scorer for example. What he is at this point is what he is. He's in his prime now, not a spring fawn.

I still think, on paper, this team is weaker than what we went into last season with. This has been the case every season since 2008/9.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I still think, on paper, this team is weaker than what we went into last season with. This has been the case every season since 2008/9.

How so?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Can Giordano play the right side?

he has played on the right side but that was long before he really broke out couple of season ago. he has msotly played with brodie the past two seasons (another LD) and brodie has been on the right side.


anyway, don't want to get into bidding war for giordano.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I still think, on paper, this team is weaker than what we went into last season with. This has been the case every season since 2008/9.

Yeah I want to forget the 2012-13 season too.

 

[Retire91]

Best roster since

Justin Abdelkader - Pavel Datsyuk - Dan Cleary
Damien Brunner - Henrik Zetterberg - Johan Franzen
Mikael Samuelsson - Valtteri Filppula - Todd Bertuzzi
Jordin Tootoo - Darren Helm - Patrick Eaves

Niklas Kronwall - Kyle Quincey
Carlo Colaiacovo - Danny DeKeyser
Ian White - Jonathan Ericsson
Jakub Kindl

Jimmy Howard
Jonas Gustavsson

 

[WesNichols14]

Best roster since

Justin Abdelkader - Pavel Datsyuk - Dan Cleary
Damien Brunner - Henrik Zetterberg - Johan Franzen
Mikael Samuelsson - Valtteri Filppula - Todd Bertuzzi
Jordin Tootoo - Darren Helm - Patrick Eaves

Niklas Kronwall - Kyle Quincey
Carlo Colaiacovo - Danny DeKeyser
Ian White - Jonathan Ericsson
Jakub Kindl

Jimmy Howard
Jonas Gustavsson

don't worry Brendan Smith is a stud! remember him with Lidstrom he'll be our #1 in like 4 years

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

he has played on the right side but that was long before he really broke out couple of season ago. he has msotly played with brodie the past two seasons (another LD) and brodie has been on the right side.


anyway, don't want to get into bidding war for giordano.

Worried about his age?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Worried about his age?

age, next contract, assets needed to get him since every playoff-level team would love to have him, especially since basically everyone would be able to fit his caphit in somehow. and i'm not sure if he can play at same level or even close to it on the right side. if not, the issue at top pair RD still exists.

 

[DanZ]

I still think, on paper, this team is weaker than what we went into last season with. This has been the case every season since 2008/9.

Huh? This isn't even close to being true.

 

[Run the Jewels]

When was the last time out roster was as good as it is now? Is this the best roster since 1955 or just the best since last year?

I would say on paper they are the best they have been since 2009.

On paper the best roster since OJ wore isotoners.

In all seriousness I think I would have to go with 2012-13. It's impossible to say it's better than any team that had Nick Lidstrom. Back then Pav, Z and Mule were all very good NHL'ers. We have no one on any of their levels right now and that obviously includes going back to when #5 was on the team.

That 2012-13 team had the last useful season from Dan Cleary - PLAYOFF WARRIOR - as well as solid contributors in Damian Brunner and Valtteri Filppula. So I think we were clearly a better team at forward back then.

We are obviously better on defense right now. 2015-16 Kronwall probably ain't gonna be as good as 2012-13 Kronwall; otherwise Ericsson is probably a wash, but Green and 2015-16 DeKeyser are huge upgrades. If Kindl plays in 98% of our games this year like he did in 2012-13 that's going to be a major shock.

We'll have a better sense of whether this team is better than the one that took the Hawks to OT in game 7 back in the 2013 playoffs once we are a couple months into the season. As of right now that's the team to beat IMO.

 

[doublejack]

How so?

Easy. In 08 we won the cup and then added Hossa, on paper becoming even better. Ever since then it's become almost an annual tradition of losing good players, one way or another. Hossa, Rafalski, Lidstrom, Hudler, Filppula, ...

Even the apparently much maligned 2012-13 team was better on paper than this group. The forwards were a deeper, veteran bunch. Dekeyser makes the D improved now, but it is largely unchanged. And in net, Mrazek still has a lot to prove and Howard has imploded. I'd rather be going into the season with the 12-13 team than the current one.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Easy. In 08 we won the cup and then added Hossa, on paper becoming even better. Ever since then it's become almost an annual tradition of losing good players, one way or another. Hossa, Rafalski, Lidstrom, Hudler, Filppula, ...

Even the apparently much maligned 2012-13 team was better on paper than this group. The forwards were a deeper, veteran bunch. Dekeyser makes the D improved now, but it is largely unchanged. And in net, Mrazek still has a lot to prove and Howard has imploded. I'd rather be going into the season with the 12-13 team than the current one.

Weird logic, comparing teams on paper and then stating Howard has imploded and that makes our current team worse? Just because he had a weak end to the last season? If we're looking at the actual performance of the players, remember that Filppula was nearly useless in 2013, Samuelsson was completely useless, Abdelkader sucked at C, Quincey and Smith played much, much worse than they're doing now.. and so on.


12-13
Zetterberg- Datsyuk - Brunner
Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson
Cleary - Abdelkdaer - Mursak
Miller - Emmerton - Tootoo

Kronwall - Ericsson
Quincey - Smith
Colaiacovo - White

13-14
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader
Franzen-Weiss-Alfredsson
Cleary-Andersson-Bertuzzi
Miller-Emmerton-Samuelsson

Kronwall-Ericsson
Dekeyser-Kindl
Quincey-Smith

Defense alone kills the 12-13 team. Bottom 6 was an awful mess on both these squads.

 

[DanZ]

Easy. In 08 we won the cup and then added Hossa, on paper becoming even better. Ever since then it's become almost an annual tradition of losing good players, one way or another. Hossa, Rafalski, Lidstrom, Hudler, Filppula, ...

Even the apparently much maligned 2012-13 team was better on paper than this group. The forwards were a deeper, veteran bunch. Dekeyser makes the D improved now, but it is largely unchanged. And in net, Mrazek still has a lot to prove and Howard has imploded. I'd rather be going into the season with the 12-13 team than the current one.

Are you kidding me? This team is clearly much better.

 

[RedWingsForPresident]

Since 2011 or 2012. Definitely better than the last 3 seasons though

Green is the first Dman detroit has added since Lidstrom that actually does help them

 

[Retire91]

Weird logic, comparing teams on paper and then stating Howard has imploded and that makes our current team worse? Just because he had a weak end to the last season? If we're looking at the actual performance of the players, remember that Filppula was nearly useless in 2013, Samuelsson was completely useless, Abdelkader sucked at C, Quincey and Smith played much, much worse than they're doing now.. and so on.


12-13
Zetterberg- Datsyuk - Brunner
Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson
Cleary - Abdelkdaer - Mursak
Miller - Emmerton - Tootoo

Kronwall - Ericsson
Quincey - Smith
Colaiacovo - White

13-14
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader
Franzen-Weiss-Alfredsson
Cleary-Andersson-Bertuzzi
Miller-Emmerton-Samuelsson

Kronwall-Ericsson
Dekeyser-Kindl
Quincey-Smith

Defense alone kills the 12-13 team. Bottom 6 was an awful mess on both these squads.

I left for Ohio in 2008 and started keeping up with the jackets more becasue their team was pretty interesting at that time. I came back to Michigan in 2012 to this nightmare.

Current team is for sure better than those two. I think 10 of those players don't even have current NHL roles and that is only 2-3 seasons removed. I think it underscores how good Dayts and Z are. With even only a remotely capable top 6 those two will get you in the playoffs.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Since 2011 or 2012. Definitely better than the last 3 seasons though

Green is the first Dman detroit has added since Lidstrom that actually does help them

Couldn't agree more, We should definitely be better then last years team with just the addition of both Green and Richards. Once again it all comes down to being able to stay healthy.

 

[TheMule93]

Id take the 2012-2013 team over this one only because Datsyuk and Zetterberg were better. Plus we had flipper and a younger/healthier/better mule

I think kronner will regress noticeably this season, ofc that's just a largely unfounded opinion of mine

Also I think this experiment with putting Richards on our first line to start the season is going to end up laughably bad.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Id take the 2012-2013 team over this one only because Datsyuk and Zetterberg were better. Plus we had flipper and a younger/healthier/better mule

I think kronner will regress noticeably this season, ofc that's just a largely unfounded opinion of mine

Also I think this experiment with putting Richards on our first line to start the season is going to end up laughably bad.

But Filppula was awful that year? Mule was healthier but our wingers are still a lot better now with Tatar/Nyquist/Pulkkinen. Datsyuk was pretty exactly as good last year as he was 12/13, maybe even better. Z was better, I'll give you that, though looking at the results the team had it didn't seem to matter much.

Seems like you're just speculating and being pessimistic about the upcoming season. Kronwall could regress and our D would still be better than it's been in years, Dats/Z could decline and our offense would still be good. The 12/13 team was literally Dats/Z/Kronwall and Howard. Nothing else.